Rate And Discuss 3.4: Daleks In Manhattan

[Pip Madeley]

As usual, the thread will be open for business after the episode has gone out...



... don't forget to give us your ratings!

[Si Hunt]

Many apologies for the delay, I've only just come on-line to unlock this thread. Post your comments here on tonight's episode of Doctor Who and the Daleks!

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

Nice opening music. Shame it was obvious what was running around in the pre-title scene.
Nice Dalek eye motif on the lift.
Touching speech from the Dalek about Skaro.
That little creature they found looks like a Rutan.
Since when do sewer manholes come up in the basement of a theatre?
I see Martha is in love with the Doctor.
I see, stand under a light bulb in an alcove & the Dalek won’t see you.
Excellent story, very good stuff. The concept of this one is quite scary in the same way as the Cybermen are, taking what is essentially humans & changing them. Taking away our humanity is something that I believe scares all people, to loose what makes us who we are. The backgrounds were very well done & the accents weren’t that bad (I’ve heard worse). This is IMO probably the best story (so far) that the new series has done for the Daleks; so far I’m enjoying it a lot. Sec looked ‘suitable’ nasty at the end but I can’t help feel that he has lost something in the scare stakes, i.e. he now needs to get a gun in order to get people to submit to his will if all four of the Cult of Skaro are changed then they won’t be invincible because they won’t have their casings to protect them. But we’ll have to wait until next week for the answers, may be.
This episode easily gets 8/10.

[stephenhannan]

O.K.

Shall we list what I didn't like about this story.

1) Daleks back again far too soon. Can't we have them every third or fourth series as in the old days. Too many defeats and resurections and are we going to believe in them again?

2) The Cult of Scaro. WTF. Will they ever die......

3) The New York setting.

4) Some awful accents

5) Hints at Lurve again . One sided admittedly this time.

6) Another reference to Rose.

7) Dalek Hybrids not realised. I think I was about to laugh.

8) The "Run" sequence

9) Pigs, why Pigs again.

10) The Morality speech " We're all equal here" USA 1930 come on...........

11) Trying to look big Set ....and failing.

12) Martha.... Is she starting to grate with her wide eyed approach to everything.

13) Humans up for processing....again....


And Finally a show song.......

etc..etc..

I've given it 2/10 only because I can't bring myself to bottom mark anything Who.

[Paul Clement]

I gave this one an 8/10 and quietly enjoyed it.

I thought it worked well as a build up story, and they have set the scene nicely for an excellent finale episode. The whole premise of the Daleks trying to evolve was in keeping with the idea that the Cult of Skaro are meant to be thinking outside the box, and the Human Dalek certainly looked excellent.
I wasn't too keen on the pigmen, but then again, they're nothing more than the new series' Robomen, so I suppose it doesn't matter too much.

[Alex]

I thought it was a pretty okay episode, it started off really well with some stunning shots of New York, and the choice of Rhapsody in Blue (which is the music Woody Allen uses in the beginning of Manhattan) amused me a lot. I liked the theatre folk, and Tullulah's a lot of fun as well, though I was slightly less drawn in by the homeless people in Hooverville. The initial monkeying about in the sewers didn't really do it for me either until they had to escape from the pig people, but then from the moment Dalek Sek absorbed the human, and the plot began to be explained, I was really gripped by it.

I can imagine the ending causing a lot of controversy, but I loved it, and the Dalek / Human hybrid was really quite horrific, I can imagine quite a few children having sleepless nights tonight!

A 7.5 out of 10 for me, good but not outstanding, though I rated it 7/10 in the poll because I didnt think it was quite good enough to be an 8.

[Si Hunt]

Can't we have them every third or fourth series as in the old days.

Sorry, but that's just not realistic. Everything in TV nowadays moves at breakneck speed and kids want Daleks! The whole lifetime of the new series could last four years. What are you going to do, wait til the whole series has finished and then say "a shame we were waiting another FOUR YEARS to use our most popular asset again"?

I thought the episode was quite good. I found I liked all the stuff with the Daleks much more than the stuff about Hooverville and the Americans. That said, that dancer girl was very good - a really memorable performance. The Doctor and Martha didn't have a huge amount to do, and the Pig Men were okay as Ogron-type slaves. I LOVED all the stuff with the experimenting, the Empire State building and the Dalek hybrid at the end. He was COOL!

Si.

[Paul Hayes]

Hard to judge a story when it's only halfway through, but a pretty good one so far I think. A few minor quibbles - the Daleks not recognising the Doctor when one stares right at him, and one or two of the accents, but Miranda Raison was much better and a more llikeable than I'd been expecting from the trailer. I liked the fact that the issue of Dalek racial purity was brought up, and I get the impression that all may not remain well in the Cult of Skaro camp over this debate next week.

But a pretty interesting story, the location was well-realised and there were some nice lines and good characters. I liked it, and hope the conclusion next week rounds it out as the cracking story it promises to be.

7 out of 10 from me.

[WhiteCrow]

Its always hard to rate two-parters without having seen the conclusion.

I enjoyed it - thought the period was great - something really unusual, liked the social commentary on the Great Depression, loved the Daleks being there and not being overused. Also Daleks of late have been just impervious killing machines, so it's nice to see them back to their sneaky ways a bit.

Loved it, but not as excited as much as say after part 1 of Rise of the Cybermen.

Oh - and found tonights Dr Who Confidential a bit annoying - sometimes it does feel a bit like RTD going on for 40 mins "hey aren't we really, really clever"!

[Andy Frankham]

Very good, I thought. The only let down for me is the Dalek Human version of Sec. I'm hoping we're in for some surprises, but I'm expecting the humanity to niggle at him, and there to be conflicts between him and the rest of his Cult, ending in Sec's extermination. Hopefully Helen Raynor will do something more interesting, though.

Otherwise, really enjoyed it. Nice atmosphere, Cardiff doubled quite nicely as New York (and I suspect, but I might be wrong, but Central Park was our very own Bute 'Castle' Park - certainly looked a lot like it), helped no end by the location filming in the real New York. All the cast were of a very high quality, and I expected not to like Tululah (based on last week's trailer), so was pleasently surprised when I warmed to her. And although Martha is clearly attracted to the Doctor (who wouldn't be?), I'm sure we're not going down the love route again.

Can't wait for part two. I wanna see the airbourne Dalek attack in Central Park!

[The Secretive Bus]

The Dalek hybrid thing looked unintentionally silly, adorable and hilarious all at the same time and I'm sure that none of those were things to be aimed for. Aside from that I really rather enjoyed this episode. 8/10

[SiHart]

An 8 from me as well, but I have to admit I didn't follow it as closely as I'd normally do because I was watching it with my nephew who needed lots of cuddles throughout and my neice was being noisy and distracting. Still, watching Doctor Who with kids is a wonderful thing to do so I'll stand by my 8 and will comment further when I've had a chance to watch it again.

Dalek Sec got a cheer from my nephew when he appeared, and my sister asked what is the preoccupation with animals this year?

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

As already said, it's probably unfair to judge a story on just the first half. I enjoyed it, but it hasn't yet 'grabbed' me - but I might well have said that after the first twenty minutes, say, of "The Shakespeare Code".

One bit I particularly did like, though, was the slightly unusual 'chat' between the Dalek and the builder guy (sorry, I still didn't quite get his name) while looking out across New York. "My planet is gone" and all that.

I also liked some of the direction of the Daleks - I think it was the first scene with Sec & the other two upstairs, where it's shot from above, which was a really good look for them. And the regular 'whoosh' of flame in the background of their lab rather reminded me of Wizard of Oz, which was nice.

Unintentionally slightly funny, Sec's transmutation scenes reminded me of a pressure cooker, with him wobbling around emitting steam, which I guess was not quite the idea. Also, when the casing finally opened near the end, and we saw that figure in there, it reminded me of something, and it was ages before I knew what - the pose is very similar to the first look at the Controller in "The Tomb of the Cybermen".

Even knowing what the 'look' of it was, I thought the ending with the Dalek /human hybrid was still a strong cliffhanger, and is presumably the pivotal turning point of the story.

Zel said she'd give it a 6, in that it was good, but not yet memorable.

BTW, like Tim I did think that a sewer coming up in the basement of a theatre was a bit odd... but then again, isn't that the same thing as happens in "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" and we don't object to it there?

[Andrew Curnow]

Incidentally, I'm wondering whether part of the deal to get the Daleks for the new series back in 2004/05, was a clause requiring at least one Dalek story per year for the next x-number of seasons? Just a thought.

[Milky Tears]

Incidentally, I'm wondering whether part of the deal to get the Daleks for the new series back in 2004/05, was a clause requiring at least one Dalek story per year for the next x-number of seasons? Just a thought.

I think it was a three or four year deal!?

[SiHart]

If they've got the rights paid for, then of course they're going to use them. They'd be stupid not to.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

No, no, I wasn't objecting about the Daleks appearing again - as long as they can do something different with them each time they can come back as oftern as they want. I was just wondering whether part of the agreement was a clause that they HAD to appear in any future seasons. Just an idle thought, nothing more, honest. I like Dalek stories.

Except "The Chase" obviously - although RTD's mention of it on DWC tonight made me hoot. What an anorak he is!!

[Andrew Curnow]

Just surfing OG, and it's made me smile that among the six people looking at a thread called 'Miranda Raison' was Dave Tudor. Great minds think alike, Dave... although it turned out to be about her accent. How disappointing.

[Jon Masters]

I'm not going to rate this properly until after the second part, since it seems unfair to slag off lots if its going to resolved properly next week. But..........

I thought it was the worst episode so far this series, and it needs to do a lot next week in order for me not to rate it as the worst Dalek story since The Chase (and given its setting how ironic would that be !)

(although one real annoyance which almost certainly won't be resolved next week - why is Black Dalek Sec incapable of speaking without wobbling his eyestalk up and down ? Its bloody incompetant and very distracting !!)

[Captain Tancredi]

I find the Daleks boring at the best of times so I'm afraid this left me cold.

[Dirk Gently]

And at one point he started talking & his 'lights' weren't flashing until about the fourth word.

[Jon Masters]

If only they'd sack all these 'friends of friends and hire a professional like JSM

[Darren]

9 out of 10 from me this week.

This is how the Daleks should be written! No stupid retorts or boring flying sequences ala Doomsday. They were sinister, malevolent and scary. The whole episode looked beautiful and moved at a perfect pace. Series three is, so far, so much better than it's predecessor, and David Tennant has got the role nailed. His schoolboy- style antics and gurning are all but gone, replaced with a harder edged, less forgiving persona. His reaction at the sight of the Dalek in the sewer was the reaction we should have got last series- utter fury and despair at their continued survival.
Martha didn't seem to be used much tonight, but the supporting cast were again superb. Talullah(sp) was sweet and very likeable. Soloman was terrific.


Bring on the Evolution!

[Carol Baynes]

I find the Daleks boring at the best of times so I'm afraid this left me cold.

Boring?! BORING??!!...Block transfer computation, now that's boring...

I thought it was very good. Great period detail and the addition of a show performace was a nice touch. The pig men would have been quite disturbing for small kids...basically all the things most people are moaning about I saw as a strength. On the subject of the Daleks' recent ubiquity, they did used to appear this often in the original series. The '60s seasons were rife with Daleks, and the same again from 1972-75.

And they are scary. All it takes is for me to remember seeing one at the Blackpool Dr. Who exhibition as a child. It was a loud, flashing, schreeching thing that kept moving. I had never seen one on television before (as this was pre-"Destiny"), but I got the idea. Oh, I got the idea alright.

[Dave Tudor]

Just surfing OG, and it's made me smile that among the six people looking at a thread called 'Miranda Raison' was Dave Tudor. Great minds think alike, Dave... although it turned out to be about her accent. How disappointing.

I really am getting more and more obvious, aren't I? Oh, and the thread starts veering towards an appreciation of her other charms later on...

I'll post more tomorow, but I thought it was another excellent episode, maybe a bit slow to get going, but I'm sure it will pan out as a very imaginative, epic story.