Further Into The Vortex: Specials Scores Please!!!

[Andrew Curnow]

It's alright, James, you've just been taken out of time - your memory will return shortly.

[Dirk Gently]

...you've just been taken out of time...

So has the TARDIS... Wrong line.

[Paul Clement]

The Mysterious Planet 8/10
Mindwarp 2/10
Terror of the Vervoids 8.5/10
The Ultimate Foe 7/10

[Antony Cox]

I dont have a copy of Season 23 to watch, and though Ive seen it through a few times in the past (albeit in dribs & drabs), I dont think I can give it a fair critique without watching it again.

In other words, I shall abstain from voting on this one.

[SiHart]

Last night I somehow ended up watching parts 1-8 of this season and I thoroughly enjoyed them too- especially Mindwarp, which i'm realising I've been very mean to in the past. I really feel as if I'm finally getting what Philip Martin was up to now...

Anyway I might ahve to change a few of my scores, but I'll hang on until I've watched the rest.

That's the dedication this thread is demanding!

Si xx

[Dirk Gently]

I don’t have a copy of Season 23 to watch...

I could furnish you with a copy of ToaTL if you want. On vid natch.
P.M me if you want them.

[Wayne]

I could furnish you with a copy of ToaTL if you want. On vid natch.
P.M me if you want them.

I wonder if Tim will be the first many trying to use this oppurtunity to get rid of their Trial vids.

[Dirk Gently]

I have spares I'd like to give good homes...



...hell even bad homes would do.

[Carol Baynes]

I've let you all down on this one...I'd started watching part one last week (first time since I was 13!) and haven't got any further.
I've watched almost everything from "Spearhead from space" and a lot of '60s Who I hadn't seen. Thats' a lot of Who! I've seen more Dr. Who this year than I have in my life...I think I need a break!

Maybe I should skip ahead to rewatching season 24 so I have time? Thank God for Youtube and people donating videos and CDs.

[Captain Tancredi]

I've been wondering what to do with my off-airs from S23 onwards which became useless when my video kaputted itself...

[Carol Baynes]

Right- I've cheated a bit and watched "The Ultimate foe" (Lissa will vouch for me whan I say it takes a lot for me to call it that! It's "The trial of a timelord" really!)
I liked it- it was flawed but fun, and with a satisfying ending. Nice to see Tony Ainley bcak as The Master, although The Valeyard almost makes him redundant. All the cast are great, I think, although the direction is a bit uninspired. Geoffrey Hughes, Lynda Bellingham and Michael Jayston all give it their all. Jayston is just sublimely slick and evil! I love Bonnie as Mel too, which surprised me as she did my head in as a teenager. I felt myself feeling a real affinity with her. Yes, I'm an annoying, relentlessly optomistic and opinionated ginger too!
Colin was fantastic as ever, and his Doctor was one of the strongest protrayals. He really dominates the screen with his loveable bolshiness. It still seems extremely unfair and crazy that they had to get rid of him.

Some parts of this seemes rushed and convoluted, but it was enjoyable and in the "..Power mad conspiritors" speech, we have the definitve sixth Doctor moment in my opinion! That alone must earn it a 7 out of 10 (and you'd never have got me to admit that in 1986...I wasn't keen on the whole season).

[Larry]

due to an enforced absence here are my ratings

The Mysterious Planet 4/10
Mindwarp 7/10
Terror of the Vervoids 2/10
The Ultimate Foe 7/10

in truth a pretty abysmal season when you saw the shots of the space station capturing the TARDIS you thought wow this looks great but it all sadly went down hill very quickly from there. As for the new version of the theme tune it was simply awful and god knows what JNT was thinking when he chose to use it.

[Martin Penny]

The Mysterious Planet 7/10: Most of this season Colin Baker saves the stories for me, he's brilliant throughout. I enjoy this story, Glitz and Dibber are fun and the robots do look very good. Unfortunately, it plods along a bit and the trial isn't set up or explained all that well.

Mindwarp 7/10: Don't know what on earth is going on some of the time, and to this day don't know if the Doctor was really evil or just pretending. But I do enjoy the story, I like seeing Sil again, and Brian Blessed is very enjoyable as Yrcanos.

Terror of the Vervoids 8/20: Again, I think what gets this story such high marks from me is Colin Baker, I enjoy every second he's on screen, and he steals the show here. I'm afraid I can't stand Mel most of the time though.

The Ultimate Foe 7/10: The first part is really good, probably because it was written by Robert Holmes, with the Master actually having a good reason to show up and Glitz returning. Part Two I don't really understand in all honesty, but I do like the Valeyard. Shame they never bothered to use him again and explain him a bit better.

[Rob McCow]

Terror of the Vervoids 8/20

Oh Martin! That's 4/10! Or 2/5! Sort out your denominators.

I'm pleased to see Mindwarp getting 7/10 plus from people. I think it's a vastly under-rated story!

Part Two I don't really understand in all honesty, but I do like the Valeyard. Shame they never bothered to use him again and explain him a bit better.

I agree. Si 'treated' me to part two of The Ultimate Foe tonight and I just found it laughable. I don't know how Pip and Jane missed that Mel hadn't met the Doctor yet. Unless the Time Lords let him go off and meet her between Mindwarp and Vervoids perhaps? Argh!

Michael Jayston is a delight though and that last shot of him is perfect. Perhaps he's the 'You are not alone' that Mr.BoeFace referred to?

[Martin Penny]

Oh Martin! That's 4/10! Or 2/5! Sort out your denominators.

My mistake, that's the first 'Oh Martin!' I've gotten in ages though!

I don't know how Pip and Jane missed that Mel hadn't met the Doctor yet.

Because there maaaaaaad.
Really though...they should have covered it, it's a fairly enormous plot hole.

[Andrew Curnow]

To be fair, they did cover it in the book, where there's an epilogue about the Doctor 'dumping' his newly-acquired Mel back where she was with her future Doctor... but it would have made for a rather dull and odd end to the TV episode.

[SiHart]

My All New Thoughts on Trial of a Time Lord!
As the eage eyed amongst you will have realised by now, I've watched Trial this week and I want to adjust my scores slightly to reflect this... so let me take you out of time and present my scores:

The Mysterious Planet 7.5
Some of this works, some of it doesn't. The new, friendlier relationship between The Doctor and Peri is great and how it should have been from the start. It doesn't stop the Doctor still being a bit thoughtless and selfish, but it's far more pleasent to watch. Glitz and Dibber are great from the start, while Joan Simms is suitably ott as Katryca. The Trial scenes are the most jarring thing really as they really seem to upset the pace of the story, despite the best efforts of Jayston and Bellingham and Bake to liven them up. Solid, and unremarkable, but not bad.
I went on a school trip to the iron age village where they recorded the Tribe of the Free bits you know.

Mindwarp 9
I've done this story a big injustice. I think I finally get what Philip Maryin was up to and in mnay ways this is a comment on Doctor Who itself. There are moments where he's really taking the piss and it's ever so funny- all those comments from the Valeyard about the companioons being in danger twice as often and the like. Sil is brilliant and highly entertaining all the way through and the sets look great under some (for a change) sympathic lighting. The ending is shocking and everyone acts their socks off- Nicola and Colin especially. Nice music and a wonderful armosphere. Great stuff.

Terror of the Vervoids 7
Iconic, but absolute rubbish all the same. The script is pretty poor, the music is terrible, every character has a dark secret and there are some poorly thought out bits (who did poison Mr Hallett?), but I find this really watchable. I don't know why- maybe it's the stellar cast or just to see what PipnJane come up with next... it's not for Commodore "Tonka" Travers though, who's wooden and uncharismatic.

The Ultimate Foe 8.5
Episode 13 is superb. From the off hand way the Master tells the court that the Valeyard is the Doctor ( I love that- it's not made a big thing of to begin with) to the Matrix scenes that out weird the ones in The Deadly Assassin and a great cliffhanger that's really bizarre, Robert Holmes goes out on a high. Unlike the story, which PipnJane sort out as best as they can, but somehow it doesn't quite work- the dialogue is overblown and silly and The Valeyard becomes very generic, sadly. Still the fake Trial bit somehow fits in with the whole theme of the season... you can't trust the evidence of your own eyes.

Overall, this is rather better than I thought this time last week. I've thoroughly enjoyed the season, but there's still a nagging doubt that it should have been better somehow... imagine if the first two stories had been ordinary ones- with the shock moment in pt8 where the Doctor is taken out of time before the end of the adventure and then forced to watch Peri die, knowing he can't save her and then having to defend himself for the rest of the season... that's how I'd have done it....

Si xx

[MacNimon]

I'm glad this thread prompted you to go out and watch this again, Si...I've found that happening to me on a few occasions since we started. I've currently got the urge to watch the Colin Baker era in it's entirety, something I haven't done since it's original broadcast. There's quite a few of these stories I haven't watched for a long time, and i'm looking forward to seeing them again.

But now it's time to move on again. For the sixth and final time in the original series, we once again have a new face in control of the Tardis; possibly Sylvester McCoy was the most controversial Doctor of them all. He seems to divide both fan and public opinion into two seperate camps, much more so than any of the other Doctors ever did. Many people think he's the best Doctor of them all; just as many think he's the worst thing that ever happened to the series. Exactly how did this divide come about? What's your stance on the McCoy era? Did he successfully bring back the mystery into the character, or was he a lame duck Doctor? Over the next 3 weeks, let's discuss the legacy of the McCoy era in general, what exactly did JN-T have left to successfully contribute to the series at this point, what differences could we have seen in the series had JN-T actually left (perhaps after TOATL?) and another producer had been drafted in...not to forget the Cartmel Masterplan.

It's Season 24 for now, though

so marks out of ten please for...

Time And the Rani
Paradise Towers
Delta And the Bannermen
Dragonfire

[Logo Polish]

Time and the Rani, 5/10, beneath all the bright colours and high camp acting, there's a tolerable if pulpy story.

Paradise Towers, 6/10, spoiled a bit by over-emphatic acting and some rather silly designs, but nicely lit and has an interesting J G Ballard-meets-Childrens BBC concept.

Delta and the Bannermen, 7/10, enjoyably light-hearted and energetic.

Dragonfire, 4/10, bit on the dull and uninvolving side.

[Wayne]

Time And the Rani - 1/10

Dr.Who turns into CBBC/Rentaghost style pap with Charlie Chaplin as the pratfalling new Doctor. Worth a point only for Kate O'Mara taking off Bonnie Langford.

Paradise Towers - 0/10

Worst story since 'The Gunfighters'. Dr.Who devolves further into utter farce. I absolutely hate it. Especially Briers as Blakey.

Delta And the Bannermen - 2/10

Marginally better, but still panto cack dragged down further with the appearance of that utter wanker; Ken Dodd.

Dragonfire - 4/10

Compared to the previous stories it's a gem, but in the larger perspective of how i like my DW, it's still below average.

Needless to say, i think S24 is the absolute pits of Who, but fortunately it gets better!

[Logo Polish]

Perfect birthday presents for Wayne here.

[SiHart]

So we've arrived at what is more than likely the most controversial season of Doctor Who ever. Even 20 years after it was first broadcast, this one more than any other really divides the fans, doesn't it?

It was really difficult to know what to expect before these stories went out. I hadn't heard of Slyvester McCoy before (though I had actually seen him in Jigsaw and Eureka as it turned out) and I was thoroughly disappointed that Colin had gone. I was 12 a couple of months before the season went out and I thinkm possibly that was the perfect age to sit back and enjoy it... and I did too!

Anyway...

Time And the Rani 7
Shiny and new! Well kind of. This story gets so much stick, but it's very well made and there's some great modelwork. Shame about the plot and dialogue which are both somewhat overblown and silly, but I can't help but like it all the same. Slyvester is both brilliant and awful, and that's something that would continue all the way through his run.


Paradise Towers 7.5
Good. If TATR was shiny this one is dingy, but perhaps not dingy enough. The main problem with it is that it isn't sure of what tone it should be adopting and is by turns silly and dark- there's not much consistency there. Still, it's a good story and fun to watch.

Delta And the Bannermen 8.5
A nice little gem this one. A rare story where the stakes aren't too high, the suns out and there's a jolly atmosphere along with a few shocking moments along the way too. The 50s is nicely evoked and the locations are beautifully green. Ken Dodd doesn't put me off!

Dragonfire 6
Again, not very sure of itself this one, by turns silly, a bit childish and sometimes just right. The Dragon looks good, as does the melting of Kane at the end, but it just doesn't grip as much as the rest of the season. Heralded as a return to form at the time, I'm not sure that's catually true with hindsight.Mel gets a nice send off.

So, I like it. What I like is the freshness and colour this season has that seems to have been missing for a few years. A long overdue new approach to the show, and while not universally liked, I'm glad they tried... and it was better than another season like 22 or 23.

Si xx

[Lord President]

The Mysterious Planet 6/10 - If only for the Space-station opening and Michael Jayston
Mindwarp 3/10 - A total dog!
Terror of the Vervoids 5/10 - Looks far too like kid's telly for me, and BONNIE LANGFORD!!!!!!!
The Ultimate Foe 8/10 - I loved this from the start, the Doc is superb, the Valeyard is scary, Glitz is hilarious, and Mr Popplewick(s) - a masterclass in fine Dickensian characterisation!

[Lord President]

Time And the Rani - 3/10 - DW Panto at its worst!
Paradise Towers - 6/10 - A great idea spoiled by overacting and low production values!
Delta And the Bannermen - 5/10 - A nice idea, great setting, just a little bit limp!
Dragonfire - 6/10 - Dark, violent, mysterious, but too cheap, and the 'cliff-hanger' makes no sense!

[Lord President]

Terror of the Vervoids 8/20:

Is that 4 out of 10 then?