Further Into The Vortex: Specials Scores Please!!!

[MacNimon]

Time And The Rani 0/10 I tried to watch this again last year, and couldn't even get past episode 1, it was simply atrocious. The worst episode ever, imo. I gave this story a chance back in 1987, desperately hoping that it would improve as the story progressed...but I was in for a disappointment. Nowadays I can't even give the story as much of a chance as I did then.

Paradise Towers 1/10 Again, I watched this last year. It gets it's point simply for being better than TATR, but that's not saying much. It's a chore to watch this from start to finish...I like to be entertained when I'm watching something on tv, and this doesn't come into that category.

Delta And The Bannermen 5/10 After avoiding this story for almost 20 years, I watched this for the first time last year. I was surprised by how enjoyable I found it, it's by no means a classic but it's now my favourite story of the season.

Dragonfire 4/10 Another story I watched last year, only to be disappointed once again. It's the most traditional story of the season, but it's just not very exciting or even interesting, is it? Still miles better than the first 2 stories, though.

[MacNimon]

Silver Anniversary season this week...

Season 25

Marks out of 10 please for...

Remembrance of the Daleks
The Happiness Patrol
Silver Nemesis
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy

[Wayne]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 9.5/10

The new season brings hope will a much more serious toned & genuinely exciting story. Probably my fave of the 80's, even nudging 'Caves' off the top spot. Has to lose half a point for the incidental music, though!

The Happiness Patrol - 1/10

High hopes totally dashed to the wall! How can it go from so good, to so bad?

Silver Nemesis - 6/10

Cyberwimps!

The Greatest Show In the Galaxy - 5/10

It's just average.

[Logo Polish]

Remembrance of the Daleks, 5/10, bit too fannish a storyline, and some iffy direction but okayish action adventure.

The Happiness Patrol, 6/10, doesn't always get the balance right, but an interesting attempt at satire which is partly camp and partly a send-up of camp.

Silver Nemesis, 4/10, not terribly coherent, with a bitty and unappealing plot. I suppose the countryside looks nice.

The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, 6/10, imaginative and has some strong visuals, if undisciplined at times.

[Lord President]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 9/10 - Only the spelling on the scrapyard gates and The Schoolgirl prevent this from being a resounding 10!
The Happiness Patrol - 4/10 - Nice idea, but far too colourful and over the top for my taste!
Silver Nemesis - 5/10 - The Cybermen deserve far better than this!
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy - 7/10 - I really enjoyed this, creepy, inovative story, and an old schoolfriend of mine is in it, so it has to score highly!

[SiHart]

1988 was an odd time to be a fan, but it was with huge optimism I tuned in during October to see the new season... I wasn't very disappointed at the time...

Remembrance of the Daleks 9
This was a huge move on from Dragonfire- Slyv and Sophie seem suddenly to have taken their perfomrances up a notch or 6 for this one and they'r eboth very good. The Daleks look ok- the first new casings in years for the Imperial Daleks are great, and despite a few wobbles on the cobbles, they're pretty damn good. Excellent cast, good atmosphere... just a great story.

The Happiness Patrol 6.5
A decent story hidden behind some rather odd design ideas. The sets look awful- I see what they were trying to do- create an artificial world, but it doesn't work at all. The Kandyman is a great design, but it didn't half get me some stick at school. Like Paradise Towers before it, it seems uncertain of what tone it should be adopting and so there are rather too many moments when it veers from high camp to grim horror. Loses a point for McCoy crooning As Time Goes By.

Silver Nemesis 7
Confused scripting lets this down, a feature of the Cartmel era. Too many elements and not enough time- there are too many villains and really one of them should have been left out. Lady Peinfortes revelations though exciting at the time were a bit meaningless really, but I love the Episode 1 cliffhanger, and for their weaknesses, the Cybermen look great in chrome.

The Greatest Show In the Galaxy 8.5
This is a great story, that brings back the creepiness to Doctor Who. i remember finding this one quite unnerving at the time, and there does seem to have been a big attempt to go for the scares in a way Doctor Who hadn't for a while. I still wonder when he's been fighting the Gods of RRrrrrrrrragnarrrrrrok though, because there's no evidence of him doing that before!

A good season, that's a bit tentative and unsure of itself, but it's thinking along the right lines. Cartmel needed a rocket up his arese though for the constant comissioning of scripts that were too long for the show- look at how much footage they recorded for each story that didn't make it in for timing reasons. With tighter scripts, this would have been ironed out.

Si xx

[Larry]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 8/10 - huge improvement on the appaulling crap of season 24 restoring my faith in the old series.

The Happiness Patrol - 3/10 - after the excelent season opener this was certainly a case of one step forward 5 steps back.

Silver Nemesis - 3/10 - by far the worst anninersary story to date what JNT did to the Cybermen, after Earthshock, was unforgivable. He turned them from a remorsless unstoppable army into laughable panto style villains where one good sneeze could kill them. It makes When I think of the Cybermen stories of the 1960's it makes me want to cry when I now see them running away in terror from a bloody arrow stuck in the ground


greatest Show In the Galaxy - 6/10 -

[Pip Madeley]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 8.5/10
The Happiness Patrol - 7.5/10
Silver Nemesis - 7/10
The Greatest Show In The Galaxy - 5/10

Doctor Who returns to greatness after a shoddy few years, thanks to the implementation of the so-called Cartmel Masterplan. Remembrance has lots of Daleks, explosions and McCoy finally starts making his mark on the show. Happiness Patrol is a great story, slightly let down by the production, but it's well-acted enjoyable stuff. Silly Nemesis is pretty much Remembrance but with Cybermen, but nevertheless I quite enjoy it, a fun runaround. Greatest Show lets the season down for me - it's well directed (amazing given the considerable problems during production), but the script lets it down, full of cartoonish characters and confusion (who the hell are the Gods of Ragnarok?!). Overall, a return to the good ol' days.

[Phillip Culley]

Remembrance of the Daleks 9/10 A strong return for the series, and the best story we've had in a long while. Even Keff's music isn't as bad as it usually is!

The Happiness Patrol 7/10 This feels very experimental, and on the whole it works. Although someone really should have seen the Kandyman/Bertie Bassett connection and thought 'hang on - this might be a problem...'

Silver Nemesis 7/10 The problem with this one is that there are far too many plot lines for 3 episodes - it really should have had 4. What doesn't help matters is that had they cut some of the superfluous moments (like the skinheads, and Dolores thingywhatsit) then they might have been able to flesh out the actual story.

The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 5/10 The Poorest Show in the Season. It looks good, but the story is a let down (such as the sudden appearance of the Gods of Ragnarok in the final episode), and poor caricatures like the Whizzkid don't help. Points however for Mags, who actually managed to look scary....

[Rob McCow]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 10/10
They may have blown up half of London to make this story, but it was worth it. The first story since the 60's where the Daleks do really cool things rather than just wander around blathering about exterminating people. Gorgeous designs too, from the black and silver to the white and gold Imperials. An all round hurrah!

The Happiness Patrol - 8/10
Not so much an allegory about Thatcherism as one about Thatcher herself. If you like the Kandyman, then you'll like this story. The idea of him killing people by testing out poisonous sweets is actually pretty nasty. A successfully small-scale story, but they should have left the TARDIS pink!

Silver Nemesis - 7/10
"I'm really scared of Cybermen. More than anything ever. They're really scary."
"TARDIS key, you can always go back?"
"Never! I'm not scared of Cybermen."
It's called 'Character Development', apparently.

The Greatest Show In The Galaxy - 9/10
Stephen Wyatt wrote a lot of scripts for Casuatly. Perhaps he should have submitted this script.
"She's turning into a werewolf. Give her 44 Mil of cortrazine, stat!"
"Laser blast wounds from forgetting your bus ticket, eh?"
"What is it, Doctor?"
"I have fought the Gods of Ragnarok all through Holby!"

[Paul Clement]

Remembrance of the Daleks 10/10
The best story of the McCoy era and the best Dalek story since Dalek Invasion of Earth. In my all time Top 10
The Happiness Patrol 5/10
Despite some really ridiculous elements to the story, I don't actually mind this one all that much. The Kandyman looks great (in a tongue in cheek sort of way), and there's a great story idea underneath all the gaudiness.
Silver Nemesis 8/10
You have to watch this story without thinking about it too much to reall enjoy it. It's a little bit like a lesser version of Remembrance with so many similar themes and ideas in both. The Cybermen may have been made weaker in this story, but they look great.
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy 0.5/10
It's Doctor Who, so I can't countenance giving it a zero, but GSITG is the worst Doctor Who story ever made. It's made worse by the fact that the Gods of Ragnarok idea is an excellent one, but it's realised in the worst imaginable way possible. Greatest Show??? More like Greatest Shite

[Matthew T]

Remembrance of the Daleks 9/10
The Happiness Patrol 5/10
Silver Nemesis 3/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 4/10

All unbelievably exciting when you're 8, but only the first story stands up today. The cliffhanger of Silver Nemesis part 1 was a real jaw-to-the-floor moment for me because I had NO IDEA the Cybermen were returning, and I'm sure I'd have spurted fan-wee if I hadn't been pre-puberty at the time.

After the Daleks and the Cybermen, I was convinced the Ice Warriors would turn up in Greatest Show.

[Milky Tears]

Remembrance of the Daleks - 9/10 (91%)
The Happiness Patrol - 6.5/10 (66%)
Silver Nemesis - 4/10 (42%)
The Greatest Show In The Galaxy - 8/10 (82%)

[Andrew Curnow]

I love the way that this thread offers up such great topics for debate. I'm very intrigued by this, Paul:

GSITG is the worst Doctor Who story ever made

I have to ask... why? Even if I didn't like it (although I do) I still don't think I'd rate it lower than a good many other stories.

[Andrew Curnow]

Scores on the doors time again. I remember this season going out, and just as with season 24 I loved three out of the four stories. The one I hated in 1988 was "Silver Nemesis" which was just so weak compared to its stablemates - after part 1 my Dad observed that it was almost as if it had been made by somebody who wanted the show cancelled, it was that bad. Rewatching it again late last year I actually warmed to the story for the first time ever, and in the right mood, if you lower your expectations, it's actually a bit of fun. But at the time, with the hype around the 25th anniversary story, it was an appallingly disappointing story.

On the positive side, and although I've now watched it too many times and find myself just reciting the lines as it plays, "Remembrance of the Daleks" was a stunner of a season opener, and I think allowed Who fans to be that little bit smug about the show again. When part 4 finished I remember doubting that the next story could be as good... but, speaking personally, I loved "The Happiness Patrol" too. It's so different, but for me it works - yes, Si, I even like Sly's crooning!!

Anyway, scores for 1988:

Remembrance of the Daleks 9/10
The Happiness Patrol 8/10
Silver Nemesis 4/10
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 8/10

[Martin Penny]

Remembrance of the Daleks 9/10: Theres very little wrong with Remembrance, it only loses a point from me because of the way they ruin Davros in the last episode, after he was built back up as a brilliant manipulator and genius in Revelation he is brought down to two dimensional ranter and easily defeated. The Daleks look brilliant though, especially the Dalek Supreme and the Imperials, the Daleks had looked pretty rubbish since Destiny but look and sound great he're.

The Happiness Patrol 7/10: The sets are bloody awful, it all looks very cheap, but I did enjoy this story. I love the Candy Man, he seems to get a bashing from all sides because of his sheer absurdity, but he's characterised excellently in the story, and makes for a great villain. Shame people can't seem to look past his appearance.

Silver Nemesis 6/10: A load of arse really, but enjoyable none the less. David Banks makes the Cybermen stories for me in the 80s with his little one liners now and then, "She is MAD!".

The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 8/10: Another one I really like, It's possible an episode too long, but theres some good stuff in there. I don't really understand the Gods of Ragnarok thingamy at the end to be honest, but I still enjoy it. The Chief Clown makes for a very unsettling villain when he's driving around in the hearse.

[Paul Clement]

I have to ask... why? Even if I didn't like it (although I do) I still don't think I'd rate it lower than a good many other stories.

I do think that there is a kernel of a good idea within the mess that hit the screens. The premise of an almost godlike group of beings who feed off of the suffering and death of lesser mortals is one that was worthy of being told, but it's in the execution of the story that it fails, and worse still fails abysmally.

I'm not a fan of the grotesque, it's the main reason I don't like programmes such as the Legaue of Gentlemen, and there are characters within GSITG that definitely fall into this category for me.

Some stories, Timelash and Invisible Enemy for example, bore me. I can take that on board and still try to find the positives that are in them, GSITG on the other hand repulses me, and that makes it the worst of the pile, IMO.

[Ralph]

Remembrance of the Daleks 6/10
The Happiness Patrol 0.5/10
Silver Nemesis - 4/10
The Greatest Show In The Galaxy 2/10

[Stuart Wallis]

Remembrance of the Daleks 8.5

The star turn of the McCoy era. Once again the music is distracting, and the idea of defeating a Dalek with a super-powered baseball bat is more Whizzer & Chips than Doctor Who. Despite that, the Daleks (the Imperial ones at least) are an obvious threat to be reckoned with, which isn't to say that the black ones aren't dangerous, and there isn't really much that you could criticise overall. Scary girl...

The Happiness Patrol 4

Like Paraquat Towers, another good idea spoilt by the execution, though i somehow think that I may be missing the point over the way that the actual patrol members are dolled up. (Even if i am I can't see the point in the very obvious makeup and the men in the story not being dressed in bright colours either.) The Kandyman: I can see that the designers are trying to put the idea that he's made of sugary stuff over. In that respect, a man with a face covered in pink powder, the original design, is going to look... well, like something entirely different, but they end up going too far with Bertie Bassett.

I read that this story's a parable concerning Maggie and, specifically, her 28th clause. Nobody ever complained about Gay Agenda then as much as they do now, do they?

Silver Nemesis 3/10

The Cybermen's redesigned heads are the best part of this otherwise very humdrum tale. What was the point of having Dolores Gray in the story, other than to pad it out and to offer Lady Painful and Richard a lift? (Talking of Richard, was Her Ladyship's maiden name Bucket? At least Hyacinth was reasonably sane, and acted in a good OTT way, rather than chewing the set.) Silly moments include That Scene With The Catapult and the anti-climax over the Doctor's secrets - how did Peinfort get hold of them anyway? By the end, the story was so weakly told that I didn't care who got the statue in the end.

The Greatest Show in the Galaxy 8

Despite the impression I know I've given over the years, there was the odd story that I liked around this time. This is one of them, if i may exercise the ancient cliche once more. The Gods of Ragnarok do look reasonably like stone, and GSITG does continue exploring the themes of The Celestial Toymaker (only better) and Enlightenment; how do morally ambiguous immortals, or downright evil ones in this case, pass the time? It would have been nice to know what exactly they'd done to give the Doctor the impression they were nasty, other than to treat people as though they were flies barely worthy off pulling the wings off in order to pass a blink of an eye, but the consideration of the effects of having to serve this kind of "management" are very well considered. Well done costume department overall.

[Andrew Curnow]

Some stories, Timelash and Invisible Enemy for example, bore me. I can take that on board and still try to find the positives that are in them, GSITG on the other hand repulses me, and that makes it the worst of the pile, IMO

Fair enough, Paul - I can't say I agree, but thanks for the reply. It's always interesting to know what makes us all 'tick'.

[transvamp]

Must do some backtracking.

Trial of a Time Lord is a strange mix of things. Doctor Who had long lost its symbiosis by this point and this is the show at its most schizophrenic. The idea is fairly sound. The way that the Doctor is drawn into a web of corruption, paranoia and deceit where gradually reality itself gets subverted to nightmarish proportions. Plus its scope from Thoros Beta to the Matrix universe to the end of the timeline is amazing. Never have I experienced such an unnerving sense of temporal vertigo.

But it is offset by tedious courtroom scenes and the dillution of comedy and a cop-out ending that makes the whole thing seem pointless. The dialogue of Terror of the Vervoids is so repellant I find it unwatchable, and to disagree with popular fandom's view, I find the death of Peri, and the unrelenting persecution she suffers from the Doctor that leads up to it, is nothing but a nasty, cheap shock tactic and represents the show at its most ugly and manipulative. It just seems to be 'how to get shot of a companion in as amazingly a nasty way as possible' season.

In short its a mixed bag, some subversive qualities and themes that are dismembered all over the place but still just about become cohesive. One thing it isn't is bland.

As for Season 24. Absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever. a horribly lobotomised season. Every time I try to rewatch a story from that season I end up giving up not even halfway through episode one. Time and the Rani is definitely the worst. Somehow they took its high camp elements and managed to make them boring for crying out loud.

I honestly cling hard to the view that Doctor Who shouldn't have carried on this far, and should have ended with dignity with Caves.

[Matthew T]

I honestly cling hard to the view that Doctor Who shouldn't have carried on this far, and should have ended with dignity with Caves.

I'd never have become a fan if it had have done!

[Andrew Curnow]

Absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever

Each to their own, of course, but I do think that seems a bit of a sweeping statement, Tom...

...and going back to my earlier post on season 24, it's nearly 20 years on and I've still never seen anybody actually justify these claims that "Time and the Rani" is sooooo bad.

[Ralph]

Thats the point it doesn't need justification!

[Captain Tancredi]

I'm not a fan of the grotesque, it's the main reason I don't like programmes such as the Legaue of Gentlemen, and there are characters within GSITG that definitely fall into this category for me.

'Greatest Show' reimagined by the League of Gentlemen would be sublime.

The thing about the McCoy era is that it took them three years to really get to where they were aiming, and S25 is about two-thirds of the way there. The impression I have is that after introducing Ace in 'Dragonfire', the production team then went away and thought properly about how the character would work the following year. But while 'Remembrance' is the finished article and 'Greatest Show' quite an accomplished satire on Who itself, the three-parters aren't quite so strong.