Further Into The Vortex: Specials Scores Please!!!

[transvamp]

Each to their own, of course, but I do think that seems a bit of a sweeping statement, Tom...

...and going back to my earlier post on season 24, it's nearly 20 years on and I've still never seen anybody actually justify these claims that "Time and the Rani" is sooooo bad.

The season fails to either inspire me, entertain me, engage me or make me think. Infact much of it is an insult to the intelligence. It isn't even so bad its funny, because it's made by a production team who are so incompetent they can't even do farce properly anymore. Even given my insatiable curiosity to see how daft the show could get, I really found myself with no desire to keep watching Time and the Rani after episode one. It was actually dull as much as anything.

Things that are wrong with Time and the Rani. The Rani dressing up as Mel should be the comical highlight of the thing, instead its treated as a pivotal dilemma and dragged on ridiculously. Likewise the earnestness of the Doctor's melancholy and shame over his post-regenerative confusion. The scriptwriters are still taking this childish and pantomime thing so seriously. It's just repellant. The worst of all though is the final scene where the leader smashes the Doctor's antidote. Its just indescribably awful and borderline neurotic.

[MacNimon]

Its just indescribably awful and borderline neurotic.

Truer words have never been spoken!

[Andrew Curnow]

I can't agree or disagree, as I've no idea what you mean Tom - borderline neurotic?!

For that matter:

The Rani dressing up as Mel should be the comical highlight of the thing, instead its treated as a pivotal dilemma and dragged on ridiculously. Likewise the earnestness of the Doctor's melancholy and shame over his post-regenerative confusion.

I don't want to be picky, but that doesn't say why you consider Time and the Rani to be such a bad story. Not sure what you mean about "melancholy and shame" but surely earnestness means they're playing it for real, rather than sending it up? Isn't that generally a good thing? And likewise with the Rani dressed as Mel.

[Wayne]

I know i'm a couple of days early for this, but as i'm away for a while, i thought i'd get S26 rated, as it's the last season of the classic series.

Battlefiled - 7/10

I'm being generous because despite some excruciatingly naff bits, i don't think it's as bad as everyone seems to make out. Jean Marsh is fab, & really saves it for me. And it's great to have the Brig back. I love the way he knocks McCoy Doc out. He'd never've done that to Pertwee!

Ghostlight - 6/10

A difficult one to rate, because the story is such a bag of bollocks, but i do think it has a great atmospheric side to it, & McCoy & Aldred are both good, IMO.

Curse of Fenric - 8/10

Best of the season for me. McCoy's darker Doctor really grew on me, & i think the whole story has a real classic feel, & again, plenty of atmosphere.

Survival - 6.5/10

It's not a bad one. I like the Earth based bits best, but i'm not keen on the cheetah people/planet. Also, i've never for the life of me understood why everyone thinks Ainley's performance is so particularly good, in this one. True, he's not as panto/emperor Ming as usual, but he genuinely comes across to me as someone who's quite clearly rather bored by the whole affair. He sleepwalks through his lines, if you ask me!

[Dirk Gently]

A difficult one to rate, because the story is such a bag of bollocks...

You mean it's a Scrotum?

[Antony Cox]

Remembrance of the Daleks 8/10
Ive always liked this story. I remember watching it on transmission and thinking This is more like it! after not rating the previous season very highly overall. Even Keffs music fits in nicely here!

The Happiness Patrol 3/10
Many seem to see an underlying parody of something or other in this story, but for me the basic presentation of the story makes me dislike it and thus I cant (be bothered to) see if theres anything underneath which I should be appreciating.

Silver Nemesis 4/10
Watched it again fairly recently but it doesnt improve with age. The Cybermen are completely wasted here in my opinion, and come across as rather ridiculous.

The Greatest Show In the Galaxy 8/10
Havent seen this for a while, but has always been one of my favourite McCoy stories. Very creepy atmosphere backed up with an excellent score.

[MacNimon]

An improvement on the previous season here, at least in the more traditional stories. The Dalek story doesn't do much for me, I'm afraid...it's watchable but not one for repeated viewing. A bit of a chore to watch, to be honest. I prefer the Cybermen story, to tell the truth...I'll agree that the Daleks have a stronger story, but I just find Silver Nemesis more fun to watch. No classic either, though. The other 2 stories of the season, though, are dreadful. The Kandyman must have been the most embarrassing monster in the history of the entire series...if it was in a half-decent, witty story they may have got away with it...but The Happiness Patrol was neither decent or witty. Just plain awful. As for The Greatest Show In The Galaxy, it's just a mess from start to finish.

Still, improvement from the previous season was obvious, and it was to continue the following year.

Remembrance of the Daleks 4/10
The Happiness Patrol 0.5/10
Silver Nemesis 5/10
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy 2/10

[Perry Vale]

I'm a couple of weeks behind! I'll catch up later.

[Perry Vale]

Time And the Rani - 7.5/10
Paradise Towers - 7/10
Delta And the Bannermen - 6.5/10
Dragonfire - 6.5/10

And then......

Remembrance of the Daleks - 8.5/10
The Happiness Patrol - 7/10
Silver Nemesis - 7/10
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy - 8.5/10

[transvamp]

I've only seen Remembrance of the Daleks and Greatest Show in the Galaxy from Season 25, but they both achieve the impossible feat of making me somewhat glad that Doctor Who did carry on after Caves of Androzani. Testament to the fact that once the show has hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

This is a welcome return to form with a Doctor who actually has some balls and is hands on with the enemy, and confident, pacy stories that overcome the previous seasons of wetness, neurosis and lethargy.

[MacNimon]

The end is nigh...as we move on to Season 26. But did the original series go out with a bang or a whimper?

Marks out of 10 please for...

Battlefield
Ghost Light
The Curse of Fenric
Survival

This is also probably the best time to include 1996's tv comeback for the Doctor. What were your thoughts on this at the time, how much were you looking forward to it and did it live up to your expectations or disappoint you on that first viewing? What do you think of it now, over a decade later?

Marks out of 10 as well please for...

The TV Movie.


Next week we do the Eccleston era.

[Pip Madeley]

Battlefield - 4/10
The Curse of Fenric - 9/10
Ghost Light - 6/10
Survival - 7/10
The TV Movie - 8/10

[Phillip Culley]

Hmmm - I thought the TV Movie was going to be done in a 'specials' round with the likes of K9 and Co, Curse of Fatal Death, Dimensions in Time etc...

Battlefield 6/10 This could have been a very good story, however it's let down by far too much, including the music, flying knights, BOOM!... the list goes on.

Ghost Light 4/10 The opposite to Battlefield - this is some very good production values - the sets look lovely, it's well directed and the music is excellent - it's just a shame the story is complete incomprehensible guff.

The Curse of Fenric 9/10 The best of the season by far, and possibly McCoys best as well.

Survival 8/10 Another strong story, and the beginning of Episode 2 is one of the few things I remember from back in 1989 (cause it ended up on a video of ours for some reason)...

The TV Movie 6/10 McGann is fantastic, and deserved to have a much better story for his sole TV outing. Everything else, however, is rubbish - there's a forced regeneration sequence, an unnecessary "Dalek" cameo, a load of Time Lord history guff and the sudden decision that Doctor's half-human.

[SiHart]

Battlefield 3
Tacky, slow, mediocre. Almost everything about this story is terrible- Slyv and Soph give their worst ever TV performances, the script is in dire need of another rewrite,half the cast are disposed of in an off hanf manner when they've outlived thier usefulness. and there's that bloody letter in Arthur's helmet that oh so cleverly gets the Doctor from one scene to the next because there's no other way to do it. It's a good thing there's great performances from Jean Marsh and Nick Courtney because they save this from a lower score. Dire.

Ghost Light 8
Gorgeous sets and acting, a script that's not as difficult to follow as it's made out to be, and lovely production makes you wonder if we're watching the same show that had produced Battlefield. I like the atmosphere of this one- it's spooky and the guest cast are all superb.

The Curse of Fenric 9
I love this story. Again, it's spooky and wonderful, even of the script again has problems. I honestly think Andrew Cartmel was pretty useless as a script editor because he constantly gave the production team scripts that were too long for them to film. Look at the amount in the original script that didn't make it to the original cut and tell me he's doing his job properly. That said, this is a really good story in all it's various forms and Perkins was, well, pretty special for me... nuff said, eh?

Survival 9
Yeah, ok, it probably doesn't deserve that- it's cheap, , the cat looks awful and so on, but the story itself is very good indeed, the music is superb, Ainley suddenly gives the best performance he's ever given as The Master and the end brings a little lump to the throat for me.

The TV Movie 7.5
This should have been so much better than it was. The production values are super and the new TARDIS is gorgeous, as is Paul McGann's gentle, burbling romantic Doctor. But the story is tosh. It should have been so much better than it was. Daphne aquits herself well, Eric Roberts gives us the campest Master ever (imagine that!) and I give it a high score just for the excitement of it actually being made and of seeing the logo appear then turn round!

Si xx

[MacNimon]

Hmmm - I thought the TV Movie was going to be done in a 'specials' round with the likes of K9 and Co, Curse of Fatal Death, Dimensions in Time etc...

I'd thought about that, but decided it would probably be better to keep the series in proper broadcast order. We'll do the specials in a few weeks time, after Series 2.

I'll include The Sarah Jane Adventures pilot episode in that weeks poll, but what about Torchwood? Does it deserve a mention in this poll? A week devoted to that series alone, perhaps...or do we just ignore it for the purposes of this thread? Your thoughts on this would be welcome, everyone...majority vote wins!

[Anthony Williams]

I'll include The Sarah Jane Adventures pilot episode in that weeks poll, but what about Torchwood? Does it deserve a mention in this poll? A week devoted to that series alone, perhaps...or do we just ignore it for the purposes of this thread? Your thoughts on this would be welcome, everyone...majority vote wins!

if you're doing the SJA pilot, then Torchwood deserves as much of a go, too!

Ant x

[MacNimon]

I agree, it deserves a mention at least...but do we just do the pilot episode to keep it in line with the other specials/spin-offs or give the complete series a week of it's own?

[Larry]

Battlefield 5/10
Ghost Light 9/10
The Curse of Fenric 8/10
Survival 5/10

[Logo Polish]

Battlefield, 3/10, awful idea in the first place, ineptly scripted and acted, frequently mindless.

Ghost Light, 7/10, a little on the obscurantist side but mostly a well made and conceptually interesting story.

The Curse of Fenric, 6/10, chilly and atmospheric, but a little dour and choppily paced at times.

Survival, 8/10, a few production shortcomings and bits of silliness aside, it has a pleasantly strange and distinctive style - the Cheetah planet scenes feel especially desolate and abandoned.

The TV Movie, 5/10, a few crowd-pleasing visuals and one or two charismatic performances but let down by the mundane and underdeveloped story.

[Martin Penny]

Battlefield 7/10: An enjoyable story, let down by bad music and dodgy 'sparks flying everywhere' special effects, and some bad performances. Okay...that's quite a bit that lets it down, but I still like it, Nicholas Courtney and Jean Marsh are excellent, and the Destroyer is the best looking monster in the classic series.

Ghost Light 7/10: Not really sure whats going on, but there are some fine performances in this one, particularly from McCoy and Alrdred.

Curse of Fenric 10/10: My favourite story from the McCoy era, and one of my favourites from the show as a whole.

Survival 8/10: A nicely done little story, with a great peformance from Anthony Ainley.

The Movie 7/10: I've always liked the TVM, Paul McGann is excellent, and Eric Roberts is very creepy as The Master, although he's not really 'camp' until he dresses up at the end.

[Paul Clement]

Battlefield 9/10
Ghost Light 8/10
The Curse of Fenric 10/10
Survival 6/10
TV Movie 5/10

[Paul Clement]

Survival 9
Yeah, ok, it probably doesn't deserve that- it's cheap, , the cat looks awful and so on, but the story itself is very good indeed, the music is superb, Ainley suddenly gives the best performance he's ever given as The Master and the end brings a little lump to the throat for me.

I reiterate Wayne's comment from earlier, when I ask where exactly this great Ainley performance is, because it's certainly not in the Survival I've seen. It's about the worst episode of the season for me.

[SiHart]

I think it's that the Master is starting from a position that he's not in control of that works for me. I think Ainley really manages to show the desperation to escape from his predicament, and gives a quieter, more restrained performance than we're used to from him. I like the fact that he doesn't chuckle until midway through part 3, which is very unusual.
OK, I know that the moments where he's howling are a bit poor, but I think he comes up with the goods for this one.

Si xx

[Martin Penny]

I think it's that the Master is starting from a position that he's not in control of that works for me. I think Ainley really manages to show the desperation to escape from his predicament, and gives a quieter, more restrained performance than we're used to from him. I like the fact that he doesn't chuckle until midway through part 3, which is very unusual.
OK, I know that the moments where he's howling are a bit poor, but I think he comes up with the goods for this one.

Si xx

I agree. The best thing about The Master in this story is that he's just very calm, reserved and sinister all the way through.

[Matthew T]

Battlefield 1/10
Ghost Light 7/10
Curse of Fenric 9/10
Survival 6/10
The TV Movie 1/10

The TV Movie just edges out Battlefield as the worst ever story IMO.