Rate And Discuss 3.5: Evolution of the Daleks

[Jason Thompson]

I was unimpressed with that. Seriously so.

How many more scenes must we get where the Doctor is allowed to go on and on at the Daleks while they profess their unquenchable desire to exterminate him? In The Parting Of The Ways they shot at him the minute he appeared, and only failed to kill him because he was behind a forcefield. Now it seems we can have him marching in, being sarcastic, chatting away and moralising with them, while they just stand around talking about how they are going to kill him. Yes, they must kill him, Absolutely this time he's going to die. We'll rid ourselves of our mortal enemy. Yes we will, we will be free of the Doctor's interference... oh bugger, some distraction's come along. Never mind, we'll kill him next time we see him. What the hell stopped Dalek Caan just shoting him while he was standing there at the end before disappearing in an emergency temporal shift?!?!?!?!?!?!? OK, obviously the Doctor can't die, but let's try to engineer some situations where he might have some way of protecting himself. No less than four separate scenes had him confronting the Daleks, and only one of them had any sensible justification for his not being shot.

And now for the other big annoyance, and I'm saying all this in the full knowledge that I may be about to spark another Impossible Planet style argument. Once again the writer has taken a real scientific concept and turned it into storyline fudge and total bollocks. Gamma radiation is not lightning, nor can it be conducted down a lightning rod type assembly. The stuff about using it to splice DNA together is just about OK, as gamma radiation is indeed a cause of mutagenesis, but suddenly later on it also becomes a DNA conductor and somehow gets infected with the Doctor's DNA, which is enough to spread it across a thousand-odd human shells. That's an example of bad scripting because suddenly there's a new property to this whole setup that was never even mentioned and isn't consistent with how we've been told the system works in the first place. And worst of all, the biggest scientific cock-up of the lot, and so elementary it should never have passed the script editing stage even if the script editor does apparently know sod-all about real science: it was bloody night-time when the SOLAR flare struck!!!!!!! You'd have thought someone would have realised that in order to get hit by a solar flare you actually have to be on the side of the planet facing the sodding sun! New York wouldn't have got any gamma radiation from the flare, because the rest of the planet would act as a very effective shield!

As with the black hole in The Impossible Planet, if the writer wants something that works as a major plot device to do wonderful things, attaching a real scientific name to it does not increase credibility. In fact it has a wholly negative effect, because the viewers who don't know anything about gamma radiation won't know there's anything wrong, whereas those of us who do will recognise it as total shite. On the other hand, if they'd called it a burst of zectronic energy from a nearby stellar implosion everyone's happy. A standard rule of writing is write about what you know. If you don't know science don't stick science buzzwords in your scripts, because the real scientists among the viewers will spot that that is just what you've done.

It had some good stuff in it, some great ideas, some great dialogue. But it was all buried under scieitific bullshit and ludicrous scenarios. The worst of the third series so far.

[P-Bal]

I don't like to go too deep into things, but it was made very clear that a "temporal shift" takes a lot of energy. Surely the implication was thus that Dalek Pollard could either kill The Doctor or survive itself?

Doctor Who has always had silly science. It's a children's programme, not Tomorrow's World.

[Milky Tears]

It was Gammon Radiation, not Gamma!



Allons-y!

[Pip Madeley]

The science bit doesn't really bother me, as I'm not a scientist myself, my knowledge is rather limited - I just enjoy the spectacle, performances and good dialogue - the Doctor screaming at the Dalek to kill him was powerful stuff indeed. Though I do agree with Jason that the Daleks not going through with their threats of extermination is becoming a bit silly.

RTD has built them up to be these conquering monsters that wiped out the Doctor's whole race, waging a Time War against everything else in creation, killing countless beings... so why do they have so much trouble with the Doctor, stood unarmed in front of them? For all the excuses, it's a bit silly. That's why I don't think the Daleks should appear every series, as it will eventually harm their impact - we always know the Doctor should and will win at the end of the day, but where's the danger of him shuffling around chatting to them? As Jason rightly pointed out, in Parting Of The Ways they immediately tried to kill him, but now they're not even trying...

Here's a serious suggestion: the next 'Dalek' story should be an adaptation of BF's 'Davros' audio story. No ranting, just the way Terry Molloy always wanted to play it. Sod the continuity, Davros doesn't need to be dead, they always seem to find a way of sidestepping it....

[Jon Masters]

I'm tired, its late and I've not had the best day, so I'm not going to give a full review now (and given the posts so far I may not anyway as I'm not sure it would be all that welcome). I gave DIM 3/10 and I'm giving EOTD 2/10.

I've ignored all the science stuff Jason pointed out (and more) because I'm resigned to RTD et al not giving a toss about science in favour of art. I won't ignore crappy plotting, dreary writing, naff pacing, dodgy special effects, poor characterisation bits, odd moments of poor acting, and horrible bits of direction (and believe me, its got to be bad for me to notice that !) I'd rank it as the worst new Series story we've had (excluding the Christmas specials)

To nick someone else's idea, a turd with a Dalek stuck on it is just a decorated turd.

3 moments of joy lit up my viewing:
The Daleks basically telling Sec to piss off and doing things the Dalek way
The two conspiring daleks in the sewer, when the one turns his head round to check that no-one's listening before having a chat.



Actually, now I can only think of 2. God, I'm depressed


Edited to add - I've just remembered the third - it was the preview for nest week's episode. Says it all really

[Wayne]

Doctor Who has always had silly science. It's a children's programme, not Tomorrow's World.

Absolutely. Science Fiction is basically all bollocks if you want get into it that deeply. You might as well complain about the Tardis being based on bollocks science. Of course it's bollocks. It's fiction!
And what's more the Daleks have been threatening to exterminate the Doctor in situations where it would've been very easy for them to do so, but not actually doing so, for 40 odd years!

[WhiteCrow]

Anyone else thing that the way they brought in Sec all chained up was a bit Gimpy - it's that big Gay Agenda again!

[Wayne]

Anyone else thing that the way they brought in Sec all chained up was a bit Gimpy - it's that big Gay Agenda again!

Good point! Sec was Caan's bitch, alright!

[Pip Madeley]

By the way, I doubt many will get this reference, but did anyone think of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar during the shots where the camera was attached to the roaming Dalek in the sewers? I heard the music in my head, it made me laugh out loud

[Martin Penny]

By the way, I doubt many will get this reference, but did anyone think of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar during the shots where the camera was attached to the roaming Dalek in the sewers? I heard the music in my head, it made me laugh out loud

I was just thinking about that!

[Pip Madeley]

There's a YouTube video there in the offing, I'm sure

[Michael Mills]

I knew it reminded me of something!

[Alex]

Heh, me too Pip!

I just found out that my review of it made it on to Ain't It Cool News, which has made me happy! Tis just a shame it was a negative one, I'm hoping that I'll really like next week's and so will be able to do a more positive review.

Anyhoo, the link is here: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32460

[Andrew Curnow]

I think Jason makes some good point above, and although to be honest it hadn't even occured to me at the time, I suppose it does seem a bit absurd to have solar flares hitting at night.

I have to admit, and it may be unfair and entirely wrong, but I did kind of feel with this two-parter that perhaps it wasn't script-editted as well as it could/should have been - whether that's because of it being somebody from 'the team' and therefore people found it more difficult to criticise; or whether they expected the script-editor to edit her own script, I don't know. But I would say that most people have found this story lacking - whether in terms of its science, or its plotting, or the artificiality of its set pieces or whatever. I have enjoyed it, but it hasn't grabbed me in quite the same way as the first three episodes this year, and as yet Martha isn't being given the chance to be another 21st Century companion - by which I mean, by the time Rose was five episodes in she had already made her mark, but Martha hasn't done anything more than any other companion you could name. That's not to say that Freema isn't very good, and very watchable (he added quickly) just that the scripts don't seem as interested in focussing on her as they do on the Doctor.

On the other hand... maybe it's the danger of heightened expectations. After the snippets at Christmas, I had visions of some kind of "Talons..." style story, with the theatre location integral to the plot, and with (for some reason) the Daleks literally running the show... It wasn't what I was expecting, so maybe it's my fault?

I do think Jason should write to DWM, though, as I think this is an interesting point - it didn't affect my enjoyment, I would say, but thinking about it, yes it's clear that we switched from waiting for a 'gamma strike' to waiting for a lightning bolt, so narratively as well as scientifically it would seem to have been messed up.

I'm not sure what to make of next week's from the trailer though - could be a sleeper hit, could be another "New Earth". Time will tell...

[Darren]

7 out of 10


Not so good bits.

The Doctor should have shouted 'CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!' at the end

That would have been better than his half hearted comedic stumble towards Caan as he teleported.

As regards to the science, I was puzzled as to how a solar flare turned into a lightning strike, and exactly how it caused the Doctor's DNA to be fed into the Human- Dalek shells. The Dalek genome(?) was fed through tubing within the building.

By the way, I doubt many will get this reference, but did anyone think of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar during the shots where the camera was attached to the roaming Dalek in the sewers?

I've never heard of this Digby bloke, but I know the scene you mean and thought it was poor camera work, imo.
And finally, as the episode continued, Sec became less and less scary, becoming instead, simply a freak. Maybe that was the point as he found Humanity.

Good bits

All the rest. I really enjoyed this episode (though not as much as last week).

[Jonno]

This seems to be our divided story of the season - the Boomtown/Love & Monsters of S3? Personally, I loved it and have given a 9 for the whole story. It pushed all the right buttons for me - wonderful Dalek characterisation harking back to the two Whitaker classics. I'm much more interested in calculating, scheming, scientific Daleks than the war machines they had largely become in the 70s & 80s (especially under Davros). Talking of Davros, with an even more direct reference to him last night, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him back next time - surely he now has to effectively rebuild the Dalek race?

I watched this in the company of Steve and Si - we didn't have a unanimous verdict on the merits of the story, but I'll leave them to elaborate on that. One of us spotted the exact same problems with the solar flare etc. that Jason informed us about, and likewise felt it ruined the episode, while two of us didn't care/didn't notice and just enjoyed the spectacle. As others have rightly pointed out, Doctor Who has always been about silly science - if it wasn't a problem 30/40 years ago, why is it a problem in today's dumbed down world (look at how Horizon has dumbed down for starters!)?

All 3 of us laughed at and loved the moment where one of the Daleks checked behind to see there was nobody there when conspiring!

We also loved the dispassionate floating Dalek exterminating Solomon - you could see it coming a mile off but, as with the sprinkler electrouction in "Dalek" and the death of Lynda in POTW, you still loved the moment! Likewise, the extermination of Sec. I also liked Tennant's continual anger at and hatred of the Daleks - their appearances in the new series for me has elevated their status because of this and the effects of the Time War.

We also cheered at the ray battle in the theatre, and laughed out loud at the pigs looking up in the lift, impatiently waiting for it to get there!

Many have commented on the darker feel of this story, and less emotional moments. I think this has been much needed and a welcome throwback to an older style of story (though I wouldn't want it all the time, variety is the spice of life)!.

The monster next week looks extremely good!

[Jason Thompson]

Absolutely. Science Fiction is basically all bollocks if you want get into it that deeply. You might as well complain about the Tardis being based on bollocks science. Of course it's bollocks. It's fiction!

As with The Impossible Planet, my point has been missed entirely once more. The TARDIS is not based on ANY science whatsoever. It's pure fiction in every sense. Gamma radiation, solar flares and black holes are NOT fictional. If you're going to include fact in fiction at least get it right. That's why I made the comment about calling it zectronic energy from a stellar implosion. That is pure fiction and would therefore have achieved whatever the writer wants it to because it has no genuine properties of its own. Gamma radiation from a solar flare becoming a night-time DNA-conducting lightning strike is just ridiculous.

[Wayne]

[Darren]

"Carping on?"

Many have commented on the darker feel of this story, and less emotional moments. I think this has been much needed and a welcome throwback to an older style of story

It's just what the series needs. I don't like too much larking about and comedy episodes.

[Wayne]

"Carping on?"

He took the bait. Mind you, i was hoping for a huge rant of 'Impossible Planet' proportions, but it wasn't to be this time.
(@Jason)

[Stuart Wallis]

I put the solar flare strike "turning" into the lightning strike as a coincidental arrival of a normal electric storm last night, though I'm wondering now where the rain went. Either way, we've got them on the science once again. Anyway...

This episode I gave 5. There was a lot of good set pieces - the end of the pig guards, the "why?" moment, the Doctor is in speech - and the Daleks were sufficiently Daleky with their plots and counter-plots. The problem is, the plot still wasn't engaging enough for me, and neither was the pacing. Laszlo being saved and Solomon's death were predictable, and Tallulah's "oh, the Doc's gay" lines were becoming repetitive and unneccessary.

Not that I wouldn't mind seeing the Daleks back, but it would be nice for a little bit of a rest, as others have said, and a better-written script.

[Stephen Morgan]

I'm surprised at the divided opinions about this episode, I loved it and I've given it 9/10.
It was great to see Dalek Sec's uncertainty about the Dalek plan, humanity shining through there, and also good to see the other Daleks doubt his new ideas about the way forward for the Dalek race. Great stuff.
One thing I've wondered all through the two episodes, where is the Genesis Ark? It wasn't pulled into the void with the other Daleks and the Cybermen, and there were bound to be other Daleks still inside it, maybe Dalek Caan will be reunited with it at a later date.

[Dirk Gently]

One thing I've wondered all through the two episodes, where is the Genesis Ark? It wasn't pulled into the void with the other Daleks and the Cybermen, and there were bound to be other Daleks still inside it, maybe Dalek Caan will be reunited with it at a later date.

I'm fairly certain it was pulled in to the void, Steve.

[Si Hunt]

I really enjoyed it. I'm afraid I just accepted that we'd got some dodgy science with all the stuff about the lightening conductor and the Time Lord DNA and just got on with it, I think you have to really. I was more impressed that the story broadly followed on from itself, and we didn't get a big doohickey being built at the end to solve it all.

Most of all I enjoyed the way the Daleks didn't let us down when Sec tried to change them - throughout a series of lovely nods and winks you got the impression they were thinking about it, then when that bloke said "And whaddaya say?" there was only one response that would satisfy us - "EXTERMINATE!!!!". Hurrah!

I thought this was a fun episode, I loved the Dalek Sec Hybrid ("Commence Hybridisation!") and his accent wasn't distracting in the end, and we wondered whether somehow the ending would dovetail into "Dalek" what with one Dalek left and all. Maybe not.

But I gave this a '9' because it was exciting and didn't cheat the audience plotwise and was good fun. Bite me.

biggest miggest oppurtunity ever

Is that alchohol I can smell on your breath, Martin?

Si.

[Jonno]

I'm surprised at the divided opinions about this episode,

Me too, Steve.

Fans don't like single episode stories because they're too fast paced. Give them a longer story and they're moaning that they take too long to get going!

They moan about too many stories on present day Earth with the companion's family. We haven't seen them since episode 1 this series, so maybe they'll be happy next week?!

They moan about too flippant an approach and too many emotional episodes, but don't like the darker, less comedic approach to this story.

That's (certain) fans for you!