Rate And Discuss 3.5: Evolution of the Daleks

[Pip Madeley]

At the end of the day, I don't worry about what other fans think. There might once have been a time where I'd argue with someone who rates 'Evolution' 2 out of 10, but not now. If they don't like this kind of Doctor Who, fair enough that's their opinion, but *I do* and it's exactly the kind of Doctor Who I want. So I'm happy enough!

[Wayne]

But fans love moaning! It keeps them happy! (At least my little moans are fairly consistent)
I notice Ralph's said sweet F A about the last 2 eps, not divulged what score he's given. I that says a lot.

[Anthony Williams]

I gave it 4/10. I will explain it when I get back to Reading tonight

Suffice to say that I didn't enjoy it very much.

Ant x

[Kungfuyoda]

Best Dalek story of the new series for me.

One thing though. Why is it that in every story so far (with the exception of Gridlock) has the Doctor been either nearly killed or at least knocked out? Combined with his recent inability to actually save the day himself, makes him look less of a lonely god, and more of a lucky sod.

[Jon Masters]

At the end of the day, I don't worry about what other fans think. There might once have been a time where I'd argue with someone who rates 'Evolution' 2 out of 10, but not now. If they don't like this kind of Doctor Who, fair enough that's their opinion, but *I do* and it's exactly the kind of Doctor Who I want. So I'm happy enough!

And I wouldn't disagree with anything you've said there Pip but.......

It's happened at some point in each of the New series that we've hit a story where opinion has been strongly divided for one reason or another, and despite the best intentions of everyone involved there appears to be a pressure on those who didn't like it to justify every negative comment made, or to argue their case again and again. If we're going to accept someone's positive reviews as being their personal opinion, then we have to surely do the same for the negative ones.

But fans love moaning! It keeps them happy! (At least my little moans are fairly consistent)
I notice Ralph's said sweet F A about the last 2 eps, not divulged what score he's given. I that says a lot.

And I note all the emoticons Wayne (they just didn't copy and paste) , but I'm unlikely to be giving a detailed review either for my 2/10 as I have neither the enthusiasm or the will to tear apart what should be my favourite TV programme, and then have to go back over it all again in detail to justify it.

I didn't sit there watching it last night feeling happy that I wasn't enjoying it, and that my poor opinion of last week's had been justified. I sat there wondering if I would ever have that DW feeling again. Perhaps its just time for me to accept that I'm a (nearly) 40 year old who needs to be happy with what he had and wish the new DW fans the best for the future.

[Kaybee Bailey]

Well, I really enjoyed it... again. I want to be clear though, I 'm giving consistantly high ratings, I'm loving every episode, but I'm also being objective. I see plot holes, I see bits I don't like, but they don't get in the way of my enjoyment of the show.

I felt this half of the story felt a bit more old school than the first, and it was a good feeling. I have to admit to willing normal dalek order to be restored throughout most of the two episodes, but I was certain that it would be anyway. I'm not 100% convinced by Helen Raynor as a writer yet, nothing set in stone at all, but both this and her Torchwood episode I just felt could have been a little more deft, entertaining though they were.

So, was I the only one to have a moment of trying to work out if Dalek Caan could have been the one 'falling through time' in Dalek?

[Matthew T]

I enjoyed it, but thought it was lacking that special something. I gave it 7/10, same as last week, though to be honest it could have been lower.

I found my mind wandering quite a bit during both episodes, didn't grab me at all, in the way Smith & Jones and Gridlock did.

More RTD episodes please!

[Stephen Morgan]

I didn't sit there watching it last night feeling happy that I wasn't enjoying it, and that my poor opinion of last week's had been justified. I sat there wondering if I would ever have that DW feeling again. Perhaps its just time for me to accept that I'm a (nearly) 40 year old who needs to be happy with what he had and wish the new DW fans the best for the future.

Gerrofff..........I'm 51 and I still get a childish enthusiasm for each and every NEW episode of Dr. Who, which hardly fails to please and entertain me each and every week. I always get that Dr. Who feeling come Saturday, and my impatience knows no bounds, next weekend we're down the caravan, if Viv wants to go out somewhere on Saturday she'll know it if there's no sign of getting back on time.

[Si Hunt]

One thing though. Why is it that in every story so far (with the exception of Gridlock) has the Doctor been either nearly killed or at least knocked out?

Surely it's the fundamentals of drama that the hero has to get himself in bother each week. It wouldn't be very exciting otherwise!

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

So, was I the only one to have a moment of trying to work out if Dalek Caan could have been the one 'falling through time' in Dalek?

No, someone else mentioned it earlier & I thought the same. But then I remembered that the Dalek in 'Dalek' was a true Dalek & not one with a Cult of Skaro glyph on it (as far as I remember). It had 'a' Glyph but I'm fairly certain that they are different.

I haven't spoken about this episode yet as 15 minutes in & my parents turned up & I missed the middle so I'll comment after tonights repeat.

[Milky Tears]

I didn't sit there watching it last night feeling happy that I wasn't enjoying it, and that my poor opinion of last week's had been justified. I sat there wondering if I would ever have that DW feeling again. Perhaps its just time for me to accept that I'm a (nearly) 40 year old who needs to be happy with what he had and wish the new DW fans the best for the future.

This is all that survived my cheeky reply's Preview Post stage:



That is not awesome and cool.

[Jon Masters]

I'll give your legs such a slapping if I ever catch up with you, you young whippersnapper !!

Gerrofff..........I'm 51 and I still get a childish enthusiasm for each and every NEW episode of Dr. Who, which hardly fails to please and entertain me each and every week. I always get that Dr. Who feeling come Saturday

Hurrah for Steve .

What I meant to infer was perhaps my lack of enjoyment ATM was far more because I've changed, rather than the programme, and that my moans were not just a petty vendetta against new DW.

(I've started shouting at people on the news and the radio too )

[Stephen Morgan]

I've started shouting at people on the news and the radio too

Ooooohhhhhhhhh... I've always done that, I used to shout at Basil Brush for interrupting Mr Roy's story every week, knowing it was holding up the next Who episode.

[Dirk Gently]

(I've started shouting at people on the news and the radio too )

I do that too, that has nothing to do with age. I comment on the IQ of people on these 'quiz' programmes to the tune of "God how thick are you!?"

[Pip Madeley]

WARNING: Mild Anal Fanboy Content

Has anyone noticed that we're not seeing the TARDIS demat/remat much this series? Yes, there was that business at the end of Smith And Jones with the Doctor showing Martha, but since then there's been a distinct lack of roll back and mix action - it's quite annoying when they keep ending episodes by shutting the TARDIS door, I want to see it dematerialize!

[Stephen Morgan]

I do that too, that has nothing to do with age. I comment on the IQ of people on these 'quiz' programmes to the tune of "God how thick are you!?"

The Weakest Link's the best for that, some of the people who go on that are unbelieavably thick.

[Dave Tudor]

While I enjoyed 'Evolution Of The Daleks' immensely, like last week's episode, I'm giving it 7 out of 10. Perhaps it's a combination of the story's parts being greater than its sum, and the sheer quality of the stories preceding it, but, excellent as it was, this Dalek two-parter just fell ever so slightly short of greatness for me. However, being a huge fan of the new series as a whole, and not really being able to put my finger on why it didn't quite gel at times, I would much rather praise what worked about the story, than what didn't.

In its treatment and exploration of the metal meanies, this was perhaps the bravest of the new series' Dalek stories to date, getting deeper under the skin of the creatures than ever before, examining what it is that makes the Daleks the creatures they are. In so doing, the creation of several new 'Dalek' species - the half-human Dalek Sec, the mindless human Daleks - was a masterstroke. The 'human' Dalek Sec was a particularly thoughtful, interesting character, and much of the credit for this must go to actor Eric Loren, who brought a touch of pathos to the role (surely not easy under several layers of make-up), so much so that one had genuine sympathy for him, the differences he wanted to make, and for his eventual betrayal at the hands of his own kind. The Daleks themselves were at their scheming, conspiratorial best, reminiscent of David Whitaker's handling of the creatures. That the Daleks have been reinvigorated so brilliantly has been one of the new series' great successes, and to bring things full circle, with the Doctor once again facing the sole Dalek in the universe, was a nice twist.

In many ways, this was one of the most traditional new series stories yet, especially in its many influences, from cinema, stage and literature, particularly the horror genre, from Frankenstein to Beauty and the Beast, from The Island Of Dr. Moreau to The Phantom Of The Opera. This fitted the period setting, the era of the Universal horror movies, perfectly, and like the best gothic 'Doctor Who' stories, it was not afraid to wear its influences on its sleeve. Praise must once again go to the designers, from all departments, and to director James Strong for evoking the spirit of 1930's America so well.

Guest stars Miranda Raison, Ryan Carnes and Hugh Quarshie were all excellent (although I did feel some disappointment at the latter's early demise, however brilliantly ruthless it was!), but I do feel that this was perhaps Freema Agyeman's weakest episode yet, the actress giving perhaps her least assured performance of the series, although, to be fair, it didn't help that the writing for Martha was not very strong - at times, it could just as easily have been Rose saying those lines. This was a shame, as both Freema and Martha have been brilliant so far, and one hopes that with the reintroduction of Martha's family next week, the character will be able to re-establish her identity.

However, for me, the episode belonged to David Tennant, who was at his imperious best in 'Evolution Of The Daleks'. The actor just gets better and better, and there were times in this episode when one could see why Tennant was recently voted (if slightly prematurely) the best Doctor ever, his 'Kill me!' speech to the Daleks being one of the most spine-tinglingly brilliant Tenth Doctor moments yet. Befitting the darker tone of the third series, and this story in particular, Tennant seems to have brought a dangerous edge to the character, a death wish almost, illustrated by the aforementioned confrontation and his brave-yet-foolhardy clinging to the mast as the lightning/solar flare/'gammon' radiation* (delete as applicable) struck.

Perhaps it is because my expectations have been raised so highly by the opening three episodes that 'Daleks In Manhattan/Evolution Of The Daleks' sometimes felt a little disappointing, a little underwritten, even. Yet I still found so much to admire in Helen Raynor's story, and, given time, I may regard it as something of a classic.

[Andrew Curnow]

Great review Dave!

In many ways, this was one of the most traditional new series stories yet

And

his 'Kill me!' speech to the Daleks being one of the most spine-tinglingly brilliant Tenth Doctor moments yet

I absolutely agree with. I found that "Kill me!" sequence actually very unsettling, because it was done so well.

[Stephen Morgan]

An excellent review there from Mr. Tudor.

[Pip Madeley]

I absolutely agree with. I found that "Kill me!" sequence actually very unsettling, because it was done so well.

I can't help feeling it was a very 'Ninth Doctor' moment though. I really could've seen Eccleston doing that bit, but Tennant did a good job of it too.

[Andrew Curnow]

I fully take Jon's point above (I felt the same last year, on several occasions, and especially with "New Earth") and it is a miserable feeling to be watching but knowing you're really not enjoying it.

I do think (and I know we always end up having this discussion) that it would be a real shame if people who didn't like something feel that they can't say that; there's never yet been a story that fans are universally agreed on (some people actually dislike "Castrovalva", so there you go) so why should we expect one now?

Being inconsistent, I think Jason's science point here is a lot more appropriate than I felt with last year's Possible Planet - and the fact that others were thinking about the illogical solar flares at night while the episode was on suggests he's not alone. I don't think the TARDIS science is a good defence, although the fact that the show has always had a kind of love-hate relationship with science perhaps means we shouldn't expect too much in that respect.

For myself, to recap, I enjoyed it, but it did feel like some excellent set-pieces not held together all that well, but done with flair and style. I'd perhaps go as far as to say it's like "The Pyramids of Mars" - the plot is a bit all over the place, there's some real science misused, but the production values raise it up to be a very watchable story... as long as you don't think about it too much!!

[SiHart]

It was a very enjoyable episode. I liked it mostly for the wonderful scenes of the Doctor and the Daleks confronting each other, which had a real frisson. That was something missing from Doomsday I think. DT was brilliant once again, but somehow Martha seemed to be sidelines a bit.

Not perfect but great fun. 7/10 from me.

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

I can't decide what to rate this. But if you forced me, I'd definitely give it a 6, or maybe an 8, or a 4. But probably one of those. An even number.

[Wayne]

left blank. (sort of)

Sorry i get it now. I was a bit slow.

[Carol Baynes]

I really enjoyed it, but I'm with Jason as regards the science aspects. That really let the story down, and made the Daleks plan a bit of a joke. What's with the lightning?? Why is it happening at night-time??!