Rate and Discuss 3.9: The Family of Blood

[Kaybee Bailey]

Not going to do throwaway comments about just enjoying it etc... that was powerful. Really well acted, beautiful drama. John Smith's view of the Doctor made you question how perfect he is, how brave, how selfish. Look at things differently for once, cheap trick but it certainly worked for me. The only part I was unsure on was the punishment of the family. It was well done, with the monologue dubbed over the images, but it's one of those things which you wonder if it's good or bad. Entirely appropriate, given the story, but slightly niggly anyway. Still, I clearly loved it more than most stories, as I've already seen it three times now, and I'm not one for re-watching straight away. Really good stuff.

[WhiteCrow]

Regarding the whole Doctor giving the Family of Blood a second chance causing people to die.

It's interesting to note that the Doctor is brought into contact with a group of public schoolboys, all destined for the front line in a few years. From the commentary the suggestion is that Tim and his classmates are involved in "that terrible day" which can only mean the Battle of the Somme. Many "pals" joined up together, and whole groups/classes were wiped out in the war. Lord of the Rings author JRR Tolkien was one of only two from his class to survive the war.

It suggests that originally none of Mr Smiths class survived the war, but thanks to their contact, Tim and the bully boy survived the conflict. And so although moving, there was an element of a life saved there.

[Andrew Curnow]

That's an interesting point, Whitecrow, and not one I'd thought of before. Doesn't Tolkien refer to being "trapped by youth" in his prologue to LOTR, meaning being the wrong age at the wrong time.

[Perry Vale]

In a word, beautiful. In more words.......

I voted this 10/10, although under normal circumstances it may have lost half/a point for Tennant's acting, which was pretty poor in places, imo. Strange as I thought he was so good in episode 1. But it's easily overlooked due to such a wonderful script, possibly the best the series has ever seen. People often say RTD is better at writing 'for people' (rather than story), but Cornell seems to be able to do both.

Not quite sure how he trapped the family in eternity though, I thought they had a short lifespan?

[Rob McCow]

Not quite sure how he trapped the family in eternity though, I thought they had a short lifespan?

That makes my brain hurt. I'll agree it's one thing that I didn't understand at all!

I wasn't too bothered about it though, as by that point in the episode I was sobbing like a little girl.

[Lord President]

it may have lost half/a point for Tennant's acting, which was pretty poor in places, imo.

How dare you?

Not quite sure how he trapped the family in eternity though, I thought they had a short lifespan?

Perhaps they were trapped 'in time', some form of stasis!

[Dino]

Prefered Human Nature, but as i haven't read the book (it was the 90's, my mind was on other things...) that was a good emotional story. Never paid much attention to those people who say Doctor Who is just a children's show, but that WASN'T a children's episode.
Although I would have had The Doctor trap Baines into the 60's Top of the Pops as a presenter.
"Be Quiet! Cease and desist! Stop talking! Here's Fleetwood Mac with 'Man of the World!'"
But of course, some wouldn't have found that as funny as it looks in my mindddd....

[Jonno]

Perhaps they were trapped 'in time', some form of stasis!

Baines certainly was - that was clearly stated. However, I don't understand what's to stop a farmer or someone from taking the scarecrow down/discovering him at some stage (as someone else mentioned on here the other day).

[Dino]

Baines certainly was - that was clearly stated. However, I don't understand what's to stop a farmer or someone from taking the scarecrow down/discovering him at some stage (as someone else mentioned on here the other day).

Maybe The Doctor placed him in a field miles he knew nobody walked through?

[Lord President]

Baines certainly was - that was clearly stated. However, I don't understand what's to stop a farmer or someone from taking the scarecrow down/discovering him at some stage (as someone else mentioned on here the other day).

Perhaps some sort of Perception Filter, this is getting very complicated isn't it?

[Middle Aged Loomsy]

[U]Basically, (taking both episodes together as they made one story), this was a story with no beginning, no end, and a muddle....![/U]

Firstly it started with no explanation as to where these pursuers had come from, or why Martha and the Doic had been there - wherever it was - ; (and that did NOT become clear - even if their motivation did)

Next, my main complaint is that the Doctor supposedly changed into a human to HIDE! So, even though the thingy's found roughly where he was, and even worked out that he had become human; shouldn't Martha have left him Human, and NOT changed him back? There was no "guideline" stated in the story as to when Martha might change him back - in fact, she was supposed to wait (I think) until the "family" were dead - so why risk it?

The story then completely fudged how the Doc finally defeated the "family". (Hence no ending). And how on earth did the Dr know where to go to see the fellow in his wheelchair? And why pick that particular year/ceremony to go look at him? He could have moved to any town , city, or even country; and how did they know that he would bother with Remembrance Day?

And why is it there is only four of these "family" - whatever part of the universe they came from, to have developed space and time travel, there must have been a fair few brains at work (and they must have lasted more than the suggested three month life span.............)

A story so full of holes.

Basically, I think it was a load of old tosh. Dr. Who is capable of much better things.

Absolute garbage. Yet oddly endearing like Sylvester McCoy.

[Rob McCow]

Basically, I think it was a load of old tosh. Dr. Who is capable of much better things.

I disagree very strongly indeed! I thought it was a brilliant story that was, for once in Doctor Who, mostly about the characters.

no explanation as to where these pursuers had come from

So? What difference does it make? If there was a line in the script saying "They're from the planet Bleugh in the solar system Bleugh where we were having a picnic of Bleugh juice" would you have been happy? I think the point of the story was John Smith's life and his dillemma, so the focus was entirely that.

shouldn't Martha have left him Human, and NOT changed him back?

The Doctor though that they might not have been able to find him as a human. But if they did find him, he would have to change back to being the Doctor in order to escape / defeat them. He was vulnerable as a human only if they found him.

The story then completely fudged how the Doc finally defeated the "family". (Hence no ending).

It wasn't a fudge - they were defeated when he became the Doctor again and destroyed their ship. Their eventual fates weren't important, what was important was that he gave them the immortality they wanted, but in a vengeful way.

And why is it there is only four of these "family" - whatever part of the universe they came from, to have developed space and time travel,

The Doctor clearly said it was stolen technology. So they didn't develop space/time travel.

Human Nature was a story with layers of meaning, 'real' characters, buckets of emotion, atmosphere and historical resonance. If that's tosh, then you can write off loads of classical art and literature far superior to Human Nature.

Shame you didn't enjoy it, maybe you'll prefer next weeks?

[Logo Polish]

I think it was a deliberate decision to keep the nature of the Family somewhat enigmatic. I don't think the statement about their having three months to live was meant to indicate that that was the total lifespan of any of them, just that, whatever the limit was, they were that distance from it.

[Logo Polish]

While that may be true, I would have assumed they were referring to natural lifespans. It's pretty clear in The Abominable Snowmen that Padmasambhava is being kept alive by the Great Intelligence far beyond his normal lifespan, since he immediately dies and crumbles once he is freed at the end of the tale, whereas Latimer reached his grand old age all on his own (with perhaps a bit of help from a Time Lord about dodging a particular shell during the war).

Are there any other artificially aged or kept alive human characters in the series?

Wasn't King Dalios supposed to be about 500 years old? And not through any supernatural or technological means either, IIRC.

[Jason Thompson]

You're right, Logo. I had forgotten about The Time Monster. (odd that....)

[Jason Thompson]

Their eventual fates weren't important, what was important was that he gave them the immortality they wanted, but in a vengeful way.

But it still made sod all sense and might as well have been magic. That part was one I really had trouble with, because I just could not believe the Doctor was remotely capable of doing the stuff he did to them single-handed. Trapping someone in a mirror? Cobblers. Yes, I know the series is based around a ludicrous central conceit, but even so there are limits, otherwise there is no drama. Even series and films that have magic as a central factor in their plots have limits on what that magic can do to maintain a sensible plot.

So, I agree that the exact fates were not so important as the general idea of giving them ironic punishments (it is ironic, because they got what they wanted, just not in the way they wanted), but that's no excuse for making them so totally shite.

The character stuff was fantastic, the plot was OK until the last five minutes.

[Perry Vale]

The character stuff was fantastic, the plot was OK until the last five minutes.

I'd probably agree with that. They could 'sniff him out' across the universe, but when he was standing 3 feet in front of them in their spaceship, they couldn't tell. They even showed the family 'sniffing' and then mother of mine stated he was still human. That was the main fudge for me.

Still one of the best 'stories' the show has ever seen, imo.

[Lord President]

Still one of the best 'stories' the show has ever seen, imo.

Well said. Generally supported by most of the other posters on this thread too!

[Milky Tears]

Loomsy doth spake the truth!

[Logo Polish]

Well said. Generally supported by most of the other posters on this thread too!

Lord President's avatar (and this is going to sound stupid after he's changed it) keeps making me expect him to say "Hello folkipoos, to all you lovely posters out there, it's our cuddly Ken!" and to tell us when Hot Gossip are coming up...

[Stuart Wallis]

But it still made sod all sense and might as well have been magic.

That thought had crossed my mind as well when sister of mine was trapped behind every mirror in the world/universe/Clapton Pond/whatever. Very Lord Of The Rings etc.

[Andrew Curnow]

Personally I think it's as acceptable (or unacceptable, depending on your point of view) as Fenric being "trapped in the Shadow Dimensions" and all that.

I do find it surprising that the lack of detailed background for the Family is coming in for such a battering though. Take the Animus, take the people behind the War Games, there are plenty of examples from other stories where the villains of the piece simply are, with little or no history to them other than the needs of the story.

[Jon Masters]

Personally I think it's as acceptable (or unacceptable, depending on your point of view) as Fenric being "trapped in the Shadow Dimensions" and all that.

I do find it surprising that the lack of detailed background for the Family is coming in for such a battering though. Take the Animus, take the people behind the War Games, there are plenty of examples from other stories where the villains of the piece simply are, with little or no history to them other than the needs of the story.

I agree to a certain extent, although I can't think of a story where a baddie's motivation is made quite so deliberately obscure. Its only until about halfway through FOB that we learn that the Family want the Doctor's lives (and I'm not sure but I don't think there was any mention of wanting immortality until the Baines voice over at the end). Considering the threat of the Family is so immense that the Doctor has to take the drastic step of becoming human, we really deserved to know a bit more why.

After all, we learnt in The War Games why the Doctor has to take an even greater risk in contacting the Time Lords for their help.

[SiHart]

@ Jon's new avatar/Sig!

Si xx

[Dirk Gently]

I really liked it despite a couple of minor problems that have been covered in previous posts. It was well paced & I look forward to seeing it complete.
To comment on the following:

Although a lot of people seem to have loved it, I didn't really see the point of the final scene with the old Tim - it is just the sort of epilogue the NAs used to do, but didn't seem to add anything to the TV version (IMHO). It wasn't bad, or anything like that, it just felt a little tagged on (although I'm sure it wasn't) and I can't really say I'm 100% certain why the Doctor and Martha went there anyway?

My assumption of this scene was that although Tim & the other couple of chaps had survived not only the battle for the school but also WWI. And if you listen to the words the Vicar when she says:
"They shall grow not old*,
as we that are left** grow old;
age shall not weary them*,
nor the years condemn."
the camera moves over to show the Doctor & Martha*, not looking a day older than they were when they left Tim in that field & yet he was left** behind & lived those 80+ years in between then & now. It also shows (to my mind) that they came to pay their respects to Tim & those that lost their lives that night & may be they chose this Remembrance Sunday because it was Tim's last?

I was thoroughly entertained & loved this episode a lot & taking in the faults I've given this episode 9/10. Giving the story 9.5/10. Which is fair I think.