The Star Wars Thread

[Carol Baynes]

Was it really 30 years ago that "Star Wars" was released? Well, it was less than that if you're from the UK as we received the film months later, but not be pedantic...
I've just watched it again after a long time, and I still love it. It sucks me right in and makes me feel like a kid again. What makes it unique amongst the series is how much of an ever green family classic it is, in the same way that "The wizard of Oz" is. Such a stong story and clear narrative, that no one can fail to be engaged by, I should like to think. "The Phantom menace" feels like a very different series altogether, when viewed in that context.
It's not wholly original of course, but it's amalgamation of "Flash Gordon" style Saturday serial with Western and Arthurian legend make for a great mix. Add in a bit of Japanese influence and a tactile, noisy universe where everything looks like it really works (and could actually need fixing) and we're away. I still think the original is the strongest of the saga in the way it can attract and hold an audience (although "The Empire strikes back" is a superior film in many ways).

I re-watched "Revenge of the Sith" recently and I do think it was good entertainment, but there's something extra special about "Star Wars" ("A new hope" as we're meant to call it now). Also interesting how many scenes blend in so well with what i spresented in the prequels and how many don't.


So, whil ein praise of the saga, a few questions. Feel free to answer!

Does Obi-Wan recognise R2-D2 in "A new hope"? Or C3-PO for that matter? I'm not sure if he does, even though he obviously should (from what is shown in the three previous films).


Why doesn't Obi-Wan call Darth Vader "Anakin"? The obvious answer is that the prequels were not written when the original "Star Wars" was in production, and decisions about Vader's true identity hadn't been made, but when viewed from the point of view of the whole saga, it does seem a bit odd. Surely he'd want to address his old pupil by his true name, or does he think he really is "dead"? Shouldn't Vader be far angrier at Kenobi for leaving him to die? Not a gaffe as such- but it now makes for an unsatifying reunion once you see "...Sith".

I'm sure there was another point to mention, but I've forgotten...

May the Force be with you!

[WhiteCrow]

Was it really that long ago? I remember reenacting it many a time in the playground ...

[Captain Tancredi]

I used to have the original trilogy on VHS and watch them roughly once a year, except they went to the charity shop when my video recorder kaputted itself. I'd agree that it's a good fusion of ancient legendary themes, Second World War dogfight films and a dozen other bits and pieces, and just as importantly the look and back story show a lot of attention to detail- odd lines here and there which get picked up in the prequels and so on. And Peter Cushing, of course.

Sadly I've never got beyond about half an hour in 'Attack of the Clones' an didn't see the last one at all so perhaps I've just lost my sense of wonder or something. It'd be nice to sit down and watch all six again one day and just suspend my disbelief and immerse myself in that universe.

[Si Hunt]

I agree, nothing beats the original three films. They are fairly unique in evoking my childhood so clearly, since I haven't watched them a great deal since then. When I see "Star Wars", when that theme starts and the words scroll, I can actually be back there again, an excited eight year old with a table full of stickers and an Admiral Ackbar figure.

For me, it's not just remarkable but damn near unbelievable that "Star Wars" was made on a shoestring. In fact, I honestly don't believe it. It's all so real - it's like a multi-million dollar film set in the present, but a different present. Like Carol says, the space ships have engines and are parked in huge hangars. The creatures are somehow sweatier and as real as the human characters. That first memorable shot of Vader, striding down those white corridors, is so cinematically stunning. The harsh breathing inside his suit, his sheer size... it's like he's so real, because of course he is. In short, nothing in "Star Wars" seems like a special effect - it's like they went there and filmed it. And where did the names come from? Ewok, Tattooine, At-At, Lando Calrissian. Somehow they arn't like your usual made-up sci-fi names, they seem to come from an amazingly original lexicon unlike anything we've seen before. You usually call a space-ship a SpacePod or a Star Cruiser. Where the heck did "At-At" come from?!

And the most genius thing of all is that all the spaceships and exploding star stations and X-wing fighters arn't from the future. It's all set in the past! How mindblowingly, beautifully, simply, genius.

Si.

[Carol Baynes]

I agree, nothing beats the original three films. They are fairly unique in evoking my childhood so clearly, since I haven't watched them a great deal since then. When I see "Star Wars", when that theme starts and the words scroll, I can actually be back there again, an excited eight year old with a table full of stickers and an Admiral Ackbar figure.

For me, it's not just remarkable but damn near unbelievable that "Star Wars" was made on a shoestring. In fact, I honestly don't believe it. It's all so real - it's like a multi-million dollar film set in the present, but a different present. Like Carol says, the space ships have engines and are parked in huge hangars. The creatures are somehow sweatier and as real as the human characters. That first memorable shot of Vader, striding down those white corridors, is so cinematically stunning. The harsh breathing inside his suit, his sheer size... it's like he's so real, because of course he is. In short, nothing in "Star Wars" seems like a special effect - it's like they went there and filmed it. And where did the names come from? Ewok, Tattooine, At-At, Lando Calrissian. Somehow they arn't like your usual made-up sci-fi names, they seem to come from an amazingly original lexicon unlike anything we've seen before. You usually call a space-ship a SpacePod or a Star Cruiser. Where the heck did "At-At" come from?!

And the most genius thing of all is that all the spaceships and exploding star stations and X-wing fighters arn't from the future. It's all set in the past! How mindblowingly, beautifully, simply, genius.

Si.

That post has made me grin in complete agreement.

It's also a very, very, quotable film. My friend Cath, who is also a Wars freak, used to exclaim "It's a trap!" when something unexpected happened- her Admiral Akbar homage which she used to do a lot. Also used to annoy the hell out of a lot of people!
The original "Star Wars" is the best for dialogue though. "Into the garbage shute, flyboy" is a personal favourite.

Also, to add to Si's comments, it speaks volumes that "Star Wars" wasn't just another 'space movie'. Look at "Th eblack hole"- the kind of film 20th century fox feared they were getting with "Star Wars" with cartoon eyed robots, silly plot and gimmicky effects. "The black hole" isn't a bad film at all; far from it, but it's debt to "Star Wars" is obvious- it's trying to be "Star Wars" and can't do it. Ditto for "Battlestar Galactica" "Buck Rogers in the 25th century", "Battle beyond the stars"...and the list continues to this day. Making a "Star Wars" obviously isn't as easy as it might seem, infact if all accounts are true it was a blood sweating production. A true labour of love- a point it's harsh critics often forget. There is only one film like it really, that is that good.

[Lord President]

I was six when my Dad took me to the Odeon in Norwich to see A New Hope. I was blown away, even though I was too young to understand it all. Darth Vader was the scariest thing I had ever seen, and I wanted to grow up to be Luke Skywalker (I look more like Jabba nowadays though).

My life would never be the same again! Good old Dad!

[Milky Tears]

I thought AT-AT came from All Terrain Armored Transport? My DVD box set is still sealed after almost three years, so I can't check. That's how good the films are.

[Ralph]

I've never watched Star Wars, only seen bits of it. Still I know of R2D2 and Darth Vader. I remember it's arrival, as the theme got into the top 20 at the time

[Carol Baynes]

You've never watched "Star Wars"??!! Get outta here!

Watch the 1977 original, Ralph! Do it! You'll have fun. That's not a guarantee, but it's likely!

[Ralph]

You've never watched "Star Wars"??!! Get outta here!

Watch the 1977 original, Ralph! Do it! You'll have fun. That's not a guarantee, but it's likely!

I was a bit of a die-hard Trekkie when it came out in '77 Since Wayne's got me into Peter Cushing I guess I might be tempted See what all the fuss is about

[Carol Baynes]

I was a bit of a die-hard Trekkie when it came out in '77 Since Wayne's got me into Peter Cushing I guess I might be tempted See what all the fuss is about

Just don't expect "2001- a space oddyssey", I you see what I mean. It's meant to be a breathtaking adventure because of the adventure, not because of any profound commentary on life (man), but I'm sure you'll approach it in the right mind.

Cushing is great in it; if anything he should have been in it more. Gouvernor Tarkin obviously did some serious sucking up to the Emperor, as he gets his own moon sized space station (apparently based on his design) and makes Darth Vader clock in and out (almost! ) He's the only character in the whole series who orders Vader around (apart from Emporer Palpatine himself). It's clear Tarkin is in charge of the Death star, so presumably he's above VAder in the chain of command, even though Vader is the Emporer's 'strong arm'. Both of them are like the public face of The Empire (as the Emporer seems to have gone into reclusion).
Only Tarkin could get away with telling VAder to quit strangling arsey colleagues by using the force, or (gasp) telling him that he's the last of the jedi and Obi-Wan is dead...(so deal with it and get your job done, basically). He even aludes to the idea that Vader's plan to fit a homing beacon to the Millennium Falcon might be a bit, you know...shit. "I'm taking an awful risk here, VAder. This had better work..." And Vader stands there in silence, taking it! Fantastic!

[Ralph]

OK Carol you've persuaded me I'll give it a go in the right spirit! You certainly seem to be into it bigtime

I understand Cushing was allowed to perform in his slippers on the set - I read that somewhere just recently

[Captain Tancredi]

On reflection I probably owe 'Star Wars' a lot, possibly even my interest in Who, because I was so completely into the first trilogy that it became easy for me to pick up on the other things which were around at the time- bearing in mind we're talking late 70s/early 80s, the likes of Buck Rogers, Blake's 7 (although only the final year, as my mum wouldn't have it on) and ultimately Who. My figures (including the 12-inch C3PO) are probably still in my mum and dad's attic, along with a roofless Millennium Falcon and a Bespin Cloud Car if memory serves correctly.

[Captain Tancredi]

Cushing is great in it; if anything he should have been in it more.

This is a man who never gave a duff performance in his life- if anything, as an actor Peter Cushing had a gift for making terrible plots and awful dialogue convincing.

[Wayne]

Am i the only person who likes 'A New Hope' better than the original 'Star Wars'? I think all the extra bits enhance the whole thing. I especially love the 'new' Jabba bits.

[Dave Lewis]

I bought the original-untouched-by-Lucas'-paws-apart-from-the-bits-that-were-ohmigodthisisfromthelaserdiscwhatabastard-don't-know-where-I-learned-that-last-bit-of-bollocks-from-probably-some-saddos-on-a-DVD-forum-nearby and, although it's nice to be able to watch them, it doesn't magically transport me back to being seven, so I have no problem with each and every updated version that George Lucas has bestowed upon us since.

In fact, like Wayne, I like seeing Jabba in the first one. I like seeing Ian McDiarmid in Empire Strikes Back. And I don't have a problem with Hayden Christiansen in Return Of The Jedi. I almost have an issue with the 'new' song at the end of ROTJ, but it's actually really bloody good, and after not being transported through time to the days when I used to make up brilliant adventures with my Star Wars figures by hearing the original end song, I can only say that whatever the bearded one does with his films, good on him! I look forward to the blu-ray/HD/archival/anniversary/final-end/last-tinkering-before-I-choke-on-my-own-facial-hair editions that will, no doubt, shortly be with us. I want to see Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor in A New Hope. Bollocks to the purists.

[Carol Baynes]

. I want to see Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor in A New Hope. Bollocks to the purists.

Bollocks to that! "A new hope" takes place at the arse end of the galaxy, and I love the fact the Empire are a bit like the Romans in Britian in this one. Mighty and powerful, but not quite in control on Tatooine and probably liable to checking star charts to find out where their new space station is heading ("Where the bantha fodder is Dantooine??! The Guv wants to go there; best find out sharpish!!" )
The Emporer is too busy eating grapes and having a rest in Corusant (or whatever the Imperial home world is called), billions of miles away. What does he want to be doing hanging around the outer rim of the galaxy- he's the bloody Emporer! He's sent frickin Darth Vader to help out his top officer- Gov Tarkin. It's like a done deal. "They'll sort out that pesky rebel alliance", I bet he was saying, "What the hell do they need me for? They've got a fook off sized battle station with enough fire power to destroy whole planets. The jobs as good as done. I've more important shit to attend to...."

Man, I bet he was seriously pissed off when he heard the news.

[WhiteCrow]

I always thought Han shot first, but on the evidence, it was a clear case of self defence.

Coming soon, George Lucas's Zapruder Special Edition - the one which proves once and for all it was a lone gunman ...

[Lord President]

Am i the only person who likes 'A New Hope' better than the original 'Star Wars'? I think all the extra bits enhance the whole thing. I especially love the 'new' Jabba bits.

I agree with Wayne fully and unreservedly! A New Hope is a marvellous reworking of one of the greatest films of all time, it is excellent to see what GL would have done in 77 if he'd had the money and the benefit of modern technology! But Greedo does not fire first!!!!

[Alex]

Heh, you beat me to it, I was just about to say that LP!

I'd always liked sci-fi according to my Mum, from a very young age I watched Who with her, but whilst I can remember getting excited about certain Who things (The State of Decay on audio cassette, the announcement of a new Doctor), when I came out of the cinema after seeing Star Wars for the first time I became absolutely obsessed about it! Infact I remember Mum buying me this sci-fi magazine, I've no idea what it was called but it was one of the more adult ones, and it was basically divided in to four sections - one on Star Wars, two on films I can't remember, and one on Alien which I was far too young to read about - and far too young to see the pictures of it too!

I had one of those cardboard death stars when I was about 6 or so, and loved it to pieces, I just wish they'd made it out of plastic as it fell apart from overuse far too quickly. I got so many of the other original toys and figures, and was actually a bit gutted when I heard that Empire Strikes Back was coming out as it meant I'd have to spend more of my pocket money on new ones(!)

It's old ground I know, but nowadays I just don't think about the prequels as I thought they were mostly appalling (apart from bits of Sith), for me it's the original three films and nothing else exists. I quite like the new versions of the first three, I'm just surprised that he didn't realise what made them so great when he went on to work on the prequels...

I've just found some deleted scenes I'd never seen before from A New Hope - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us1sdD6_f2M - though I've not got any of the dvds so don't know if they're included on them or not.

[Dino]

I remember seeing A New Hope (smarm,smarm) when it came out. My Mum telling me what the words meant on the chapter recount thingy. It was a big part of my life as a child. But then you grow up.... etc... and then George dumps on your memories with The Panto Menace (see what I did there?) Attack of the Clowns (I did it again!) and er... the third one I saw on a crap pirate DVD. (Was so gutted by the second film, I thought I'd fund organized crime than give more money to George Lucas) Still, it's Star Wars' birthday, so happy birthday Star Wars........ What a liitle s**t you grew up to be...
And people who put JEDI on their census form deserve to be rounded up and deported to a desert island.

[Lord President]

And people who put JEDI on their census form deserve to be rounded up and deported to a desert island.

That wouldn't be me then, I put Sith!

[Dino]

That wouldn't be me then, I put Sith!

Nice one!

[Jeff]

And people who put JEDI on their census form deserve to be rounded up and deported to a desert island.

That reminds me of the video (linked below) that someone posted on the old forum. Still probably the funniest thing I've ever seen on the internet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUQ3H4lmf2s

[Jason Thompson]

OK, anorak mode first:

Does Obi-Wan recognise R2-D2 in "A new hope"? Or C3-PO for that matter? I'm not sure if he does, even though he obviously should (from what is shown in the three previous films).

Why should he? In the films it is quite clear that droids of that design are common. He may recognise an R2 unit as an R2 unit, but not as the one that was his R2 unit twenty years before. Similarly he may just recognise that there's a protocol droid there, not necessarily the one he knew (and he had a far more distant relationship with C3-PO than he did with R2-D2). Only once Luke tells him that R2 claimed to be his property would the memories start to return.

Why doesn't Obi-Wan call Darth Vader "Anakin"? The obvious answer is that the prequels were not written when the original "Star Wars" was in production, and decisions about Vader's true identity hadn't been made,

I'm pretty sure that everything up to Return Of The Jedi was in the original outline, which as later expanded to three films because there was just too much there for one, including Vader being Luke's father. However, I draw your attention to Obi-wan's line from Return Of The Jedi:

'Your father was seduced by the Dark Side. He ceased to be Annakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed.'

Later in that same conversation, he does not share Luke's conviction that there is still good in him and that he can be saved. Clearly Obi-wan considers Annakin Skywalker no longer exists and Darth Vader is who he really is now.

Shouldn't Vader be far angrier at Kenobi for leaving him to die?

I doubt it. Once the hatred expressed in Sith is established I doubt that leaving him to die would make Vader any andrier at Kenobi. He already hates him anyway.

It is also worth bearing in mind that the plot of Kenobi leaving Annakin to die in a lava pit was established by Lucas well before the prequels were released. It was the backstory drawn up by Lucas that explained how Vader got to be the masked, half-machine character he clearly is in the first trilogy. Althoug the prequels themselves had not been fleshed out, there was already a lot of backstory in place for the original trilogy. The prequels just fleshed it out a bit.

Anyway, I love the original trilogy, and I held out on getting them on DVD until I could get the ORIGINAL versions. Call me picky, but when I go out to get a film made in 1977 I want to actually GET a film made in 1977, not one tarted up twenty years later, and then again when some new films come out. To me the extra bits make no difference to the film at all, despite their billing as 'enhancements'. I ove the films as they are. I hate the Jabba scene in A New Hope. He's too small, too cuddly looking, and nothing like the ruthless character we see in Return Of The Jedi.

Just one thing bothers me now, with the prequels. Why the hell, if they wanted to hide Padme's babies from Palpatine and Vader, did they keep Luke's surname as Skywalker?! Why didn't they call him Lars, as Leia was given the name Organa?