Paul's Controversy Thread

[Paul Monk]

Everyday (or at least until I get bored or can't be bothered anymore) I shall make a sweeping statement that is highly controversial and not necessarily backed up with any evidence whatsoever. Then you decide if I'm right or talking a load of pepperami.

Today's one.

Nirvana were just an ok rock band. Nothing more.

[Rob McCow]

You think you can keep this up daily? Controversial!

There are a number of reasons Nirvana stand out, including Kurt's ragged voice which suited his dark and pretty-damn-good-actually lyrics. There's also the use of unusual chord structures for the songs, which brings us to the next point, that they inspired other guitarists. The Nevermind songbook was pretty much essential for any would-be guitarist in the 90's.

That makes them more than just an OK rock band, surely?

[Ralph]

Seems a fair view

[Paul Monk]

You think you can keep this up daily? Controversial!

I give myself a week tops!

[Ralph]

I'm still waiting for highly controversial

Something like Paris Hilton is a lovely caring humanitarian

[Si Hunt]

I probably can't claim to be an authority on them, because I've heard very little, but I tend to agree with Paul. I just have a sneaking suspicion that if his wasn't for his notorious suicide they'd be as well thought of as Pearl Jam, who no-one really takes much notice of these days. A lot of their reputation rests on "Smells Like Teen Spirit", and I just can't see why that is thought of as such an all-time great song. There's a fairly memorable guitar riff, a shouty chorus... and that's about it. I just don't understand why people make out like it's up there with "Bohemian Rhapsody" or something.

Si.

[SiHart]

Like Si, I'd broadly agree with you. With hindsight, they're better than I thought at the time, but I don't think they're one of the all time great bands. However, they did spearhead the whole grunge scene, which was pretty influential for quite a while, but since I didn't like that type of music much, I'm making that a bad thing.

So yes, I think they're overrated.

Si xx

[Trudi G]

I only really liked one of their songs, and i don't think they'd have been seen as such a great band if Kurt Cobain hadn't topped himself.

[Paul Monk]

Smells Like Teen Spirit was attempting to be a Pixies song and is about deodorant!

[Paul Monk]

Something like Paris Hilton is a lovely caring humanitarian

*frantically crosses it off list*

[Rob McCow]

Hmm, so the pop fans of PS don't think much of Nirvana! Fair enough.

But they were an enormous band way before the suicide - it was the huge success that led to Kurt's death, at least in part.

[Alex]

They've never been to my taste either. Lyrically some of their songs are pretty interesting, and way above a lot of the other grunge bands at the time, but it's just the droney sound that makes me lose interest. I think it's a pretty well regarded fact that a death in a band at the top of their game always makes them more iconic than they (normally) deserve to be perceived as, and I think that's the case here. It is a tragedy, don't get me wrong, and I think Kurt had a lot more to offer, but on the basis of the albums of released, they're good, but not great.

[Paul Monk]

Its very interesting because despite my initial comment I actually like a whole load of their stuff but I find it hard to understand exactly why they were held in such high regard. I'm not convinced that they were doing anything particularly new or that loads of other bands hadn't been doing for years.

[Jon Masters]

In terms of performance they're like many other rock bands - far more a cultural phenomenom than a musical one.

They're not as overhyped as U2 or the Beatles though

[Rob McCow]

I'd encourage anyone who thinks that the band are droney or musically dull to listen to MTV's Nirvana Unplugged - so many of their songs translate well to acoustic style, it shows that there was more to them than just thrash.

Even though, Nirvana must have achieved something as they're now a cultural reference point and a band who are still known today - very few similar acts are remembered as well.

[Jeff]

Like Rob said, Nirvana were massive well before the suicide. If anything their popularity was on the decline and has never been the same since the hype of 'Nevermind', but his death I'm sure did contribute to their longetivity, the same as Morrison's has given the Doors longetivity. I was a huge Nirvana fan at the time, though not so much any more, though I would still give the Unplugged album listens if I had it. That was probably their best work imo, if not their most popular. But yeah, they were more of a cultural phenomenon than a musical one, as previously stated. Their angst expressed what a generation felt; maybe not coherently in thier lyrics, but in the feeling those often nonsensical lyrics inspired, often just by the vocal expression. They singlehandedly and unapologetically ended the careers of many a famous hair band. I recall them talking about "schlock-rock" in their live video, expressing their dismay at arrogant bands who made themselves unaccessable to their fans after "making it". They were the rebels of our generation; standing against the established electronic pop and hair-metal-ballad bands of the 80's and early 90's and almost singlehandedly popularizing a whole new genre.

They may be musically overated (how can they not be) but they are still argualbly the most influential and ergo important band of the 90's.

[Pip Madeley]

Nirvana aren't my bag, baby.

[WhiteCrow]

You know I actually posted something last week controversial, but decided as it was related to Diana's death to delete it as some people are uber touchy about that sort of thing ...

If you're wondering that it was it's here, but it's in somewhat poor taste and you've been warned!

http://whitecrowuk.blogspot.com/2007...incess-di.html

[Dave Tudor]

I prefer Foo Fighters.

[Milky Tears]

Nirvana ain't no Busted.

[Dave Lewis]

In the words of John Peel (in a Doors documentary on Radio One hundreds of years ago), "Not in my top ten... top two fifty, I'd give 'em that".

But I don't agree with that, even if Peelie had been talking about Nirvana. I think they were one of the best bands of 'our' time. Admittedly, they really don't feature in my top ten, even though I've never compiled such a saddo list... I'd imagine they'd be in the top fifty, though. Kurt Cobain was a genius songwriter, Nevermind and In Utero are both ridiculously good albums, and there's enough on Bleach to keep one interested too, particularly About A Girl. Add in the Unplugged album, and You Know You're Right, and there's a ****ing phenomenal musical talent on offer.

True, Husker Du, the Pixies, Steve Albini, and many more did the combination of pop with hardcore, but Nirvana took it to the mainstream, and even better, ended the careers of so many sad hack metal bands who should have been shot many years earlier. The day Kurt Cobain told all the sad, homophobic, Def Leppard loving wankers not to come to Nirvana concerts because they weren't welcome was a defining moment in alternative rock, nay, the history of the world ever. Possibly. If it even happened.

He still didn't deserve to be murdered on the instructions of his wife, though. How has she got away with it for so long?

[WhiteCrow]

Surely you shouldn't be rating Nirvana, you should be saying how good the Kaisar Chiefs are,

I get into my taxi
Man in a track suit attacks me

Does it get any better than that?

[Rob McCow]

I'd happily wear a tracksuit if it meant I could attack the Kaiser Chiefs.

[Paul Monk]

Today's one.

Camilla will make a better Queen than Diana would have.

[Pip Madeley]

She would make a better Queen for Charles, personally speaking. But I hope Camilla doesn't become Queen, because the crown should pass straight to William when the time comes. Charles has too much baggage and lost too much respect to make an effective King.

Long live HM Queen Elizabeth II.