Rate & Discuss 3.12: The Sound Of Drums

[duncan]

It was certainly nostalgic. We got The Master, Gallifrey, Timelords, jellybabies and some Masterly phrases thrown in for good measure;

"Peoples of Earth, please attend carefully" reminded me of The Master's speech in Logopolis.

The jury is out on John Simm to be hones. Based on this one episode, I actually prefer Jacobi's 15 minutes as the Master last week, but it's early days yet. All in in, a good story getting 8/10 from me.

[Jim]

A good episode - I liked the whole "vote saxon" thing in terms of generating hype for the last episodes of the season - its something RTD's team has always done well. I also enjoyed Simms performance, particularly the phone conversation with the Doc. The Doctor - Martha - Jack team is a good one and fingers crossed Martha does the business next week and gives the Doc a wake up call.

It was as usual an entertaining episode, but I was expecting something a bit darker/more remarkable tonight. It felt like a bit of a rehash of previous stories with the mass control via mobile phones, military running about london, parliament settings, prime ministers and aliens roaming the skies with the masses watching news reports. It was dramatic to watch but the story didn't feel like it was unique to the master - which is a shame. Other niggles was the poor resolution to the fab Utopia, the whole tardis key thing and that crappy voodoo child inclusion.

Greater bits were the presentation of gallifrey, Jack telling the Doc about Torchwood, the finals 15 mins was edge of seat stuff and all of us watching were relishing how tense it all felt.

I have given it a generous 8.

[Jon Masters]

Very difficult to judge this one - there were lots of odd snippets that I really liked, but as a story I found it very difficult to grab as a whole. And it doens't help being a two-parter.

Things I liked - John Sim's Master. I really like him - the fact that he's so hyper matches DT's Doctor to a turn, and the fact that when he appeared to have been outmanouvered (by the UN etc) it was in fact all of his grand plan all along. And I loved the scarlet Pertwee-like lining to his overcoat at the airport. The backstory about Gallifrey was good, though I don't really like the idea that, having been an enigma for so long, we suddenly get the Master's motivation on a plate.
The TARDIS as a weapon was pretty cool too, including the Cloister Bell.

Things I was less keen on - the story seemed to be like a series of cartoon style action pieces. Why weren't the police staking out Martha's flat, rather than the Acme Exploding TV ? How did the Master perfect Lazarus' machine in only 4 days when he's been running his election ? The mass hypnosis - perception stuff was solved far too quickly and almost A-Team like in its handling, and ended up with 3 bits of key on three bits of string, so what was all the soldering etc for. ? And why should the perception field work differently on the Master if the Doctor had put the key over him ?
The Time War Phone call I didn't think was all that great - I'd have much prefered it as a face to face confrontation next week.

Things I thought were very badly done - no resolution at all of the Utopia plot (unless somehow its next week), and the ageing Doctor - Martha's family - Martha free to save the world doesn't fill me with confidence for next week. And without more information the Tochlafane (sp?) look like the sort of menace that Star Trek - Star Gate - etc have dreamed up many times in the past.

So, some very nice brief moments but disappointing overall - in some ways I would rather that less had happened, rather than the madcap racing about which this week suffered from. Less haste, more speed. 6/10 so far....

[Milky Tears]

I agree with Mad Larry for the first time ever!

http://beasthouse-lm.blogspot.com/

[Jason Thompson]

Hmm, good but not great. I'm still not sure what to make of John Simm's master. To be honest it just seems like they've made the Master just like the Doctor, so no real thought in the character there. I'm wondering how the plot of Utopia will figure in the rest of the story.

My biggest concern, however, is that once again we have a totally cataclysmic situation crying out for a deus ex machina resolution. In the first series we had millions of Daleks all wiped out by Rose's time vortex powers, last year millions of Daleks and Cybermen all sucked back into the void because they were conveniently covered in void magnet stuff. Now we have six billion Toclafane wreaking havoc on Earth. What wonderful plot device will we be shown to save the world next week?

Oh, minor science niggle: the Archangel satellite schematic showed a load of satellites in impossible orbits that did not have planes intesecting the centre of the planet.

[Si Hunt]

Do we think the decision to claim "Utopia" was the first of a three part story was taken very late in the day? Come on, it wasn't was it, really? And now I can moan that nothing in that story was resolved - did the humans reach Utopia? Even the cliffhanger was barely resolved!

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

I enjoyed watching it, but it's left me unable to decide whether I actually liked it or not. For the first time ever, I actually have no real opinion - I suspect I'll need to see part 2 to make my mind up.

I didn't object to the aging of the Doctor, though, unlike some - it's like an homage to The Leisure Hive! What with dialogue from Logopolis, and last week's Keeper of Traken shock, I can confidently predict that next week's final episode will see the Toclafane revealed to be Vampiric Cactuses with Badges for Mathematical Excellence, who are only foiled by a backblast backlash. Oh yes.

[Pip Madeley]

Do we think the decision to claim "Utopia" was the first of a three part story was taken very late in the day?

I'd be inclined to agree, but as RTD wrote all three episodes, I think we'll get some answers next week.

As for Mad Larry...

Not one single redeeming feature. Nothing interesting in the whole episode. Nothing worth watching in the entire 45 minutes.

...was he watching the same show?

[Andrew Curnow]

It's reassuring to know that Lawrence Miles isn't at all bitter about now being asked to write for the new series, isn't it.

[Alex]

He just makes himself look silly by proclaiming it as boring though. Okay the plot build up in the first half might've been a bit slow - oh, bar the bomb in Martha's house, and the Master killing off the entire cabinet, and then of course Martha's family being brutally captured, and a really horrible sense of it being The Doctor, Jack and Martha against the whole world after being proclaimed enemy no.1, and then there's the journalist being killed and...well you get the idea(!), but then the second half went at a superb pace, throwing in lots of cool fun stuff, and with an ending seeing the Doctor aged hideously, the Master proclaim himself as the new God of Earth, and where a hole is ripped in the fabric of time and space and 10% of the population of our country are being murdered by 6 billion pyschotic roboty things, well to say it was boring shows his arguement to be deeply flawed.

It's so fair enough if you didn't like it for a whole load of other things - the acting, directing, plot, dialogue, choice of how the Master was portrayed, the fact that Martha's family are all still a bit crap, etc etc, I'd be completely understanding, liking anything is of course so subjective, but by calling something boring which blatantly wasn't boring is ridiculous. And don't even get me started on the laziness of using the phrase "Jump the shark" in a patronising and smug way!

[Milky Tears]

I'd be inclined to agree, but as RTD wrote all three episodes, I think we'll get some answers next week.

As for Mad Larry...



...was he watching the same show?

Probably the same show I was watching. Switched over to catch the end of Scooby Dooby Doo!

[Pip Madeley]

How odd, you're saying that you think new Doctor Who is utterly boring without no redeemable features, yet you spend all that time reading about it, finding spoilers, posting about it here etc etc...

[Jon Masters]

I agree with Mad Larry for the first time ever!

With some new plot detail happening roughly every 45 seconds boring is about the one thing it wasn't.

Perhaps if Lawrence Miles and I met each other we'd cancel ourselves so perfectly that both of us would cease to exist

It'd almost be a price worth paying

[Wayne]

How odd, you're saying that you think new Doctor Who is utterly boring without no redeemable features, yet you spend all that time reading about it, finding spoilers, posting about it here etc etc...

But 99.9% of James' posts are mickey taking. I fear we'll never know what he really thinks about anything. Except that he's got exceptional taste in italian ladies underwear.

Edited to add: I decided to give it a 9/10 in the end. My natural score would be 8.5/10 though. After all, i did enjoy it, despite Sim's OTT Master.

[Si Hunt]

I can understand "boring" in a way. It wasn't for me, I wouldn't have missed a moment, but over the last three years we've got used to Doctor Who not sparing us a second's breather, seemingly in continual panic that today's generation will turn over if nothing happens for an ato-second. That took some getting used to. But now we have got used to it, just lately there's been scenes which sort of rumble on for a bit and you think (relatively!) "hang on... this is taking a while to get going". I mean, I don't mind, I sit through "The Mutants", but now we're used to it, we have found ourselves thinking (particuarly in the opening half of "Utopia", for example") that's it seems a bit, well, slow.

I think we can conclude that this weeks was fun but oddly very derivitive. Londoners being attacked by aliens falling out the sky while BBC News 24 articles flash by and minor celebrities make fleeting cameos is a bit familiar. It was all oddly unoriginal from a series which has given us so many new ideas over the last three years. Even one of the settings (Downing Street) harked back to a previous adventure.

Si.

[The Secretive Bus]

I must admit that I find the small in-jokey dialogue references to the old series a bit distracting - the telly bit from The Sea Devils, the Logopolis speech bit etc. I think it's because when I hear it I know, as a fan, where the line's come from and so it ceases to be a line of dialogue said naturally by the character; you can see RTD typing it. I feel distanced from the action. Did it last week with the "Indomitable!" line. It's a small nitpick, admittedly, but a nitpick nonetheless!

[Logo Polish]

Found it stale and uninspired. Not interested in yet more variants on Aliens of London or Army of Ghosts or whatever. John Simm was just irritating, AFAIC. And, towards the end, it just felt too much like they were throwing everything but the kitchen sink in, in the hope that something would work. Didn't enjoy it at all. Didn't like the ideas, didn't like the story, didn't like the concepts...

Incidentally, I don't think Larry is necessarily bitter at not writing for the series. He's said himself that he knows that as he hasn't got the TV writing experience it's a non-starter. Even if he is bitter, that doesn't seem to have stopped him praising episodes he did enjoy (including Daleks in Manhattan, which not everyone else liked). If he says he thought this one was boring, my view is that simply was how he felt - if he'd liked it, he'd have said so (as he did with Gridlock and Human Nature).

Oh, and TBF Milky Tears (assuming he wasn't joking, which is always possible) didn't say new Doctor Who was utterly boring with no redeeming features - he said he didn't like this particular episode, which isn't the same thing.

[Trudi G]

I love John Simm's Master - he's fabulous, and definitely a match for Tennant as The Doctor - i think he's been very well cast.
I really enjoyed this episode, but i'm giving it an 8/10 until i see the final one, because i really have no idea what's going to happen, and i love it!
We had the added enjoyment of a thunderstorm in London, for the last 10 minutes of the show, lol!

[Nicky74]

10/10 from me. Loved John Simm as the Marster, he was so funny.

[Larry]

As for Mad Larry...



...

Thought for just a moment you were talking about me there.

[Andrew Curnow]

the telly bit from The Sea Devils

I fear I'm losing my fanboy edge, because until I saw that clip on Confy, I didn't twig the 'injoke' from the Teletubbies scene. I thought it was just more 'bonkers Master' stuff.

[Larry]

was interesting that for the 2nd successive week the Doctor did not appear at all in the next episode trailer..

[Milky Tears]

I'm disgusted that The Stage's review has the cheek to mention "the more po-faced in the audience":

http://www.thestage.co.uk/tvtoday/20...d_of_drums.php

Doctor Who fans and po-faced! Shurely shome mishtake?

Or has he been spending too much time on Roobarb's?

[Anthony Williams]

was interesting that for the 2nd successive week the Doctor did not appear at all in the next episode trailer..

he did, actually. At least, in his "old" form, anyway.

Ant x

[Rob McCow]

Fast paced, brilliant humour, terrifying and superb. Beautifully evocative depiction of Gallifrey, a really dangerous foe for the Doctor, London under siege, a cool and NEW bad guy, this was fantastic.

The ending was shocking, with the Doctor humiliated and the Master literally decimating (1 in 10!) the Earth.

I would say that you'd have to have no pulse not to have enjoyed it, but seeing as people who I know have a pulse found it a bit dull, fair enough. I suppose if you didn't find John Simm's Master funny, it blows an enormous hole in the episode.

And why should the Toclafaine be an old monster? We've had plenty, we've even had the Macra There was plenty for the fans this week, from The Master's Wife to Gallifrey as we've always imagined it, even with the old costumes. Loved the War Games outfit for Master-as-time-tot!

Is Torchwood next year going to be Captain Scarlet? We've got the cloudbase, we've got a man who can't be killed, we've got mysterious aliens everywhere. All we need now is Captain Ochre! Although maybe Ianto could fill that role.