Rate & Discuss 3.12: The Sound Of Drums

[Jason Thompson]

I think the Toclafane turning out to be sort of Timelords would be very disappointing, and a bit daft. Why would they be in whizzy balls? I think it would be much more interesting, say, if they were from a parallel universe (which I assume, what with the sky ripping open and all, they are) and are that universe's version of the Daleks - and are in the middle of their own Timewar (Dimension War?) with some parallel Timelord types.

I think that would be absolutely awful. If that turns out to be the case that will make the third finale in three seasons to have had an army of millions of Daleks suddenly show up and start killing people. That was old last year. As was the deaus ex machina ending that might as well be magic.

Building to a big finale seems to be a very recent TV phenomenon, and I think personally RTD hasn't got the hang of it. It can be a big finale without planetwide invasions and huge bodycounts.

[Andrew Curnow]

He obviously spent some time in hospital then. Jim Reeves is big business on Hospital Radio

Going back to Jason's comment, fair enough - and re-reading my post, I think I ought to have said "equivalent" rather than "version". If that helps.

[Rob McCow]

I think personally RTD hasn't got the hang of it. It can be a big finale without planetwide invasions and huge bodycounts.

But if they went for a small-scale finale, it'd be just like Human Nature again.

[Si Hunt]

The Radio Times blows the twist of the Toclafane in it's program listing!

Si.

[Logo Polish]

Lawrence Miles has now written a proper in-depth review of the episode on his blog, if anyone's interested or fancies having a look, before he deletes it. I can't seem to get a link to work, but several of his criticisms seem to closely mirror Ant Williams's.

[Rob McCow]

Hurrah!

Is it outraged OG posters?

[Pip Madeley]

Whatever it is, for the love of God don't tell me!

[The Secretive Bus]

I must admit, though I'm not totally keen on the new Master I can see why the characterisation has merit. If the Master were being dead serious all the time then the Doctor would think he had somebody reasonable to talk with, to try and convince to get to his way of thinking (the Pertwee / Delgado relationship - fnarr fnarr - was built like this, with both of them being able to have reasonable conversations here and there). But if you've got a baddy who's not taking things seriously but still being evil by killing lots of people, you've got a baddy you can't reason with, a baddy it's impossible to get to grips with on a psychological level. That's much scarier in a way.

But it's a tricky balance to get right. The happy face/sad face bit was bloody awful simply because it was a rubbish joke going on for too long. Likewise the open door/scream bit. The latter bit in particular had the potential to be both darkly amusing and chilling if directed in a different way, but they just turned it into broad farce.

I'm still not sure if I like Simm's portrayal yet. I keep thinking there's a lot of potential there but that it's getting pushed too far into comedy. Simm's Master doing that grin after "What we need is a Doctor..." is frightening, because you can see the malice, the hatred and a sense of "I'm going to win and there's nothing you can do about it." Which works far more than Simm doing comedy mugging in the cabinet office. For every great Master moment in the episode there was one which just made me think he was a prat. (But not Peter Pratt, natch).

[Milky Tears]

Lawrence Miles is an anal/bitter **** of the highest order. David Brunt x 1 million x The Restoration Team x Matt West's Fat Head Size x My Too Wideness!

The Radio Times blows the twist of the Toclafane in it's program listing!

Si.

That'll probably be the same info that was in the BBC Press Release at the start of June. The fools have destroyed the episode for me!

[Logo Polish]

Lawrence Miles is an anal/bitter **** of the highest order. David Brunt x 1 million x The Restoration Team x Matt West's Fat Head Size x My Too Wideness!

Don't tell me...he raped your Interference-loving fanhood?

[Jason Thompson]

But if they went for a small-scale finale, it'd be just like Human Nature again.

I didn't say small scale. It can still be 'big' without having massive invading alien hordes and death and destruction on a scale so large it requires a magic ending device to sort it all out. Especially if you're going to have a big finale every year. As I pointed out, so far we've had three season finales with the same underlying premise: big invasion force turns up and the excrement impacts the air circulation device. Dull and unimaginative.

Although Star Trek tended to go for cliffhanger finales each season, just look at the variety:

The Best Of Both Worlds: One Borg cube appears and uses Picard to threaten Earth and the Federation with assimilation.

Redemption: A Klingon civil war breaks out and Worf has to choose between his oath to the Federation and loyalty to his people.

Time's Arrow: The Enterprise crew gets divided across time to deal with time-feeding aliens and at the end Picard has to get a message from the 19th century to the 24th to stop the Enterprise taking action that could destroy the timelines.

Descent: A new type of Borg emerges, led by Lore, to threaten the Federation.

All Good Things: The Q trial of humanity comes to a climax and Picard nearly destroys the human race.

The Jem'hadar: A new threat is discovered in the gamma quadrant, and life will never be the same again.

Call To Arms: The Dominion attacks and drives the Federation from Deep Space Nine.

Scorpion: The Crew of Voyager have no choice but to form an alliance with the Borg to survive an invasion from another dimension.

Unimatrix Zero: Several of Voyager's crew are assimilated as part of a plan to try to divide the Borg collective.

Doctor Who Series 1: A massive Dalek invasion force appears from nowhere and attacks Earth in the year 200,100.

Doctor Who Series 2: A massive Cyberman invasion force appears from nowhere and occupies Earth in the year 2007, shortly followed by a massive Dalek invasion force appearing from nowhere and attacking Earth in the year 2007.

Doctor Who series 3: The Master creates a machine that allows a massive alien invasion force to appear from nowhere and attack Earth in the year 2008.

See the difference?

[Si Hunt]

I agree. The similarities extend to the rest of the series as well - slightly whimsical adventure to start, 'celebrity' historical a few weeks in, quirky 'Doctorless' episode around week 8 etc. Since when was Doctor Who so formulaic? There's been a distinct feeling of deja vu about this series to me, and a lack of ambition.

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

Add to that the mid-run episode that serves as a setup for the finale (Dalek & The Long Game, Rise Of The Cybermen/The Age Of Steel and The Lazarus Experiment). A predictable pattern. Getting tired already.

[Si Hunt]

It just hasn't blown us out the water this year. Where's the bold new story arc taking the series into uncharted waters? Where's the challenging story taking the TARDIS somewhere brand new? It's a shame they didn't try and stretch the format a little, for example having a story about the TARDIS or giving Martha some real emotional torment, or exploring a different dimension or something. The problem with bringing back the Master is not neccesarily the Master, just that it feels like they've simply moved down the list to bring back the next "big" villain/monster after the Daleks and Cybermen to have him menace Earth. Again. I'm bloody sick of Earth! I want outer space stories, and another sweaty spaceship and a couple of scenes in a quarry don't count.

Si.

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

I must just say that I agree 100% with the last few posts from both Jason and Si.
I seem to recall RTD even saying on confidential that he had a plan to bring back a old Who enemy each year. Not that I'm against that in principle but it does seem to prove the point about the new series relying too much on a formular.
I agree with Si, I want more alien words, more different kinds of stories, less Earth invasions (well, actually just less Earth). I don't care about the companion's family - I don't want to see them.

Don't get me wrong I like the New series but I need more unpredictabilty (is that such a word?) and less global earth invasion series finals. How about a series finale on another world or set on a spaceship, sandminer, submarine, in the time vortex - anywhere where they don't have loads of news reports and flash backs to AOL/TCI etc etc.

[Jason Thompson]

Absolutely, Si. Take us to a jungle planet with plant monsters. Show us a future colony world being ravaged by a crop blight that the Doctor has to try to stop before it permanently cripples the ecosystem (that can even be a setup episode if you add in a bit about the blight turning out to be a biological weapon being used on other planets too by forces as yet unknown...). How about an artificially constructed planet? How about an episode that, shock horror, has no aliens or monsters in it at all but simply has the Doctor having to deal with some unscrupulous humans? Take us to a vast advanced city housing billions of people who are NOT just humans in 20th century clothes transplanted into a story set 5 billion (or even 100 trillion) years hence. Even borrow a plot from Star Trek and visit a civilisation fighting war by computer program, where people voluntarily walk into disintegration chambers when a computer tells them their city has been attacked. Ditch the companion family ties. It's been done now.

First and foremost, however, try making the building threat thorugh the series that gets revealed in the finale something NEW rather than another old enemy.

[Milky Tears]

Don't tell me...he raped your Interference-loving fanhood?

I've burnt my copy of Alien Bodies!

[Perry Vale]

Wasn't sure after first viewing, but second time around I can only agree with those who thought it above average. I loved the first 25 or so minutes, but then the whole thing seemed to fall apart very quickly, about the point they boarded the Valiant.

Good points :- The Timelord/Gallifrey scenes, the Master/Doctor phonecall. The Master's cape at the airport!

Bad points :- That under all the running around/shouting/technobabble/loud music, there seemed to be very little plot, any that made sense that is.

A very generous 8/10, that can hopefully be revised after the second part hopefully makes sense of it.

[The Secretive Bus]

I agree. The similarities extend to the rest of the series as well - slightly whimsical adventure to start, 'celebrity' historical a few weeks in, quirky 'Doctorless' episode around week 8 etc. Since when was Doctor Who so formulaic? There's been a distinct feeling of deja vu about this series to me, and a lack of ambition.

Si.

Mmm. It's why I've missed several of the episodes this season. I could guess what Shakespeare Code and Lazarus Experiment were going to be like so I didn't bother, and from reviews it turns out I was right about them. The Dalek two-parter was so bad I tuned out for a while, though I'm glad I came back in time to watch the wonderful Human Nature / Family of Blood.

I'm not mad on RTD's take on Doctor Who but I still really liked series 1 because it was very different and there were still lots of things to enjoy. Series 2 I didn't like as much - mainly due to Rose - but Tennant's performance was fun and it was great to see the Cybermen (and K9!). But series 3 seems curiously unambitious. There's still variety within it but it's calculated variety. For a series that should be taking us anywhere it's already become predictable. I'm hoping the conclusion to the next episode will blow me away and that the Doctor's not just going to repel the invasion force by pulling a lever...

[egdcltd]

Fortunately, the Human Dalek was killed off at the end of the Daleks in Manhatten two-parter. Having the Daleks turned into a cross between Davy Jones and whatever that green, one-eyed humanoid from City of Death? was would not have been good.

[Rob McCow]

the Human Dalek was killed off at the end of the Daleks in Manhatten

They missed a trick there, he should have been splintered in time. 'Sec! Sec! The Daleks!' Like City of Death, you see. Ahem.

On another note, I agree that the series endings should do something different, but I wouldn't hold up Star Trek TNG as a GOOD example...

The Best Of Both Worlds: One Borg cube appears and uses Picard to threaten Earth and the Federation with assimilation.

Yay this one is cool!

Redemption: A Klingon civil war breaks out and Worf has to choose between his oath to the Federation and loyalty to his people.

Doesn't rate to high on my give-a-shit-o-meter. Is he a Klingon Wayyior?

Time's Arrow: The Enterprise crew gets divided across time to deal with time-feeding aliens and at the end Picard has to get a message from the 19th century to the 24th to stop the Enterprise taking action that could destroy the timelines.

We saw this at the weekend - the cliffhanger is the crew walking slowly through a whitish portal. Cool!

Descent: A new type of Borg emerges, led by Lore, to threaten the Federation.

And everyone was amazed and cross at TNG eating it's own tail - though Doctor Who has done far more tail eating in 3 years run!

All Good Things: The Q trial of humanity comes to a climax and Picard nearly destroys the human race.

I liked this one, but it's a cliffhanger that makes me think Picard is rather silly, rather than OH My GOD!

The Jem'hadar: A new threat is discovered in the gamma quadrant, and life will never be the same again.

Ya this one's good.

Call To Arms: The Dominion attacks and drives the Federation from Deep Space Nine.

DS9 had it's moments, I'll admit! Though this is the same as the last one, really, as in it's 'Oh my word, aren't the Jem'hadar nasty?!'

Scorpion: The Crew of Voyager have no choice but to form an alliance with the Borg to survive an invasion from another dimension.

And the Borg became rubbish.

Unimatrix Zero: Several of Voyager's crew are assimilated as part of a plan to try to divide the Borg collective.

Which is a copy of Best of Both Worlds!

Never mind, I'd like them to do something different for the season finale too, but I quite enjoyed it last week. Very funny episode

Err...

Are the Toclafaine the Doctor's children?

[Andrew Curnow]

I don't think I'd entirely agree about series 3 - series 1 & 2 both followed VERY similar patterns, yes (the big baddie appearing halfway through and then returning at the end) but we haven't had that this year. Human Nature is something very different, which doesn't really have an equivalent in the previous years.

On the other hand, yes, we do seem to have a pattern of 'present/past/future' in the opening three episodes (albeit in different patterns) with the past one always featuring some kind of celebrity figure. I've enjoyed season 3 A LOT more than season 2, though.

Actually, having started off saying I don't agree, I am now tending to. Certainly next year they really need to shake things up a bit.

[Milky Tears]

Forget about comparing a spoddy 1980s-90s syndicated sci-fi show with a massive 21st century primetime spoddy/family/children's TV show on a major national network.




"Let the work of change begin!"

"Let the work of government begin!"

[The Secretive Bus]

Human Nature is something very different, which doesn't really have an equivalent in the previous years.

A two parter set during the first half of the 20th century in the shadow of war, like The Empty Doctor Dances. And it's "the emotional one written by Cornell" like Father's Day.

It's much more than that, of course, but there are still simplistic similarities (much like saying that The Shakespeare Code is like Unquiet Dead and Tooth and Claw for being an early historical episode with a big name famous character).

[Si Hunt]

I think the deliberate early unveiling of the surprise end to "Daleks in Manhatten" on the front of "Radio Times" this year was an uncharacteristic big mistake by the production team. It really didn't help that particular episode make an impact!

Si.