Rate And Discuss 3.13: Last Of The Time Lords

[Carol Baynes]

Arggggghhhhh!!!! I haven't seen this and really want to see it NOW! I'll have to wait until the BBC3 repeat at 7pm. I had a peek at some of the earlier posts and haven't a clue what to expect...Scissor sisters?? Dobbin the elf!???? An ending like the TV movie!!!????? The Master's ring????...(that reminds me of Ming the merciless in the "Flash Gordon" film). And.....Jack is the Face of Boe??!!!!!!!! What the f-
Did you lot take some serious drugs last night?!!

[Stuart Wallis]

Did you lot take some serious drugs last night?!!

Schtumm, alright? you never know who's reading!

More or less perfect. Well, near enough to 10/10 to be generous.

The Doctor finally coming out and saying that he forgives the Master after torturing him on world television, and being tortured by him for a year - then revealing he had a cunning plan all along; seventh Doctor done properly! The Master was right last night, perfect maniac. DT's acting as an old man was excellent. Martha's finest hour to date was when she was telling the people in the house about the Doctor, then going on to mock the Master. Those who wanted a proper conclusion to Utopia got one. The only slight complaints i had were that time being rolled back at the end was slightly remeniscent of Superman: The Movie; and unless that was Mrs. Saxon picking up the ring at the end, it was rather odd that she shot the Master. Still, we had a conclusion to Utopia and the Face Of Boe saga last night, we may well get a resolution to that if we're patient.

[Si Hunt]

You yourself are quite happy to express your delight when you find an episode which you believe to be, say, witty, exciting, world-changing, everything you think Dr Who should be, tra-la-la, shall we dance etc...Which is fine. But what strikes someone in that way could easily come across as disposable and uninteresting to someone else...

Of course! That's what we're all here to express, after all!

See you in 5 months when I'll be ranting about how rubbish "Voyage of the Damned" was!

Si.

[Logo Polish]

See you in 5 months when I'll be ranting about how rubbish "Voyage of the Damned" was!

[Martin Penny]

Looking back on my first post, I was probably a bit too harsh on this episode. Probably because I enjoyed last weeks so much, and found this to be such a dissappointment, it may well be one I'll rewatch and come to enjoy in the future.

[P-Bal]

Oh c'mon! It's not a courtroom drama!

[Si Hunt]

The Doctor finally coming out

I must have missed that bit!

And yes, Martin Penny, you WERE too harsh.

Too harsh.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

The poll results so far are quite interesting, only 53% of you have put the episode at 6/10 or above... a real divide!

[Dirk Gently]

I was just about to post the same thing Pip! 16votes of 6/10 or over, 14votes of 5/10 or under. Very split. Also worth noting 4 people each gave it 10/10, 7/10, 4/10 & 1/10 @ this time.

[Captain Tancredi]

Did you lot take some serious drugs last night?!!

Well, a pint of Nettle Thrasher and a packet of Jaffa Cakes...better book me into the Priory now...

[Darren]

Just a quick "sorry, Darren" because re-reading my post from earlier it did come across as rather hectoring and aggressive. Sorry about that.

No apolgies neccessary, I didn't read it as aggressive.

Incidentally there's a crew member in Confidential caled Barney Curnow. Relation?

[Carol Baynes]

Well, a pint of Nettle Thrasher and a packet of Jaffa Cakes...better book me into the Priory now...

Nettle Thrasher?! You crazy kids with your 'street talk'.

I should be keeping away from this thread....must resist temptation to read all the posts...

[WhiteCrow]

One factor which I find quite disturbing is how people seem to notch up what they call quite an average story just because it has a reference to the classic series - mentioning "Axos" or "Macra" for instance.

This isn't just a critisism of Last of the Time Lords, but other episodes. Utopia for instance where the 10 minutes when the Master returned was brilliant, but the other 35 mins were a bit of a waste of time. Likewise Gridlock and the Macra. Fan pleasing moments are just that, moments, and they cannot support or carry the rest of an episode just on that.

I know when I watched episodes of Enterprise I never got too excited just if someone said "Romulan".

Probably comes over as overly critical, I've enjoyed this series, but some episodes weren't as good as they could/should have been in my opinion. I have my Grumpy Old Man card validated tomorrow!

[Andrew Curnow]

Incidentally there's a crew member in Confidential caled Barney Curnow. Relation?

Sadly not, or at least not so far as I know. He sounds (to my ears anyway) vaguely Australian, but I'm not sure about that - there was a famous poet from that area of the world called Allen Curnow, so he may be related to him perhaps. Although I'm not related to the poet either, so I don't know why I mentioned it.

Mm, another riveting post there, Andrew, oh yes.....

[WhiteCrow]

How the episode SHOULD have ended ...



MARTHA: I DID IT DOCTOR! Just like you said! Went around the world, told everyone about you, misled the Master and he fell for it. All year I did it and I never lost faith, I kept on going because that's what you'd do ...

DOCTOR: Well yeah ... but Rose would have rescued me in less than a year ...



MARTHA: Bastard!

[Si Hunt]

One factor which I find quite disturbing is how people seem to notch up what they call quite an average story just because it has a reference to the classic series - mentioning "Axos" or "Macra" for instance.

Yeah, but who has said they've done this? I said it was amazing Axons had been mentioned, but that's not why I gave it my 9/10.

Si.

[Martin Penny]

There'll be Sea Devils in 'Voyage of the Damned' I bet

[Pip Madeley]

I'm looking forward to 'The Santa Claus Of Axos' in 2008.

[Rob McCow]

I'm looking forward to 'The Santa Claus Of Axos' in 2008.

Maybe in 20,008.

[Carol Baynes]

Oh wow.

The Master has always been one of my favourite Who villians for a variety of reasons, but especially because he is the dark reflection of The Doctor. He's his equal, and that makes him quite a scary premise. Here, that premise was realised brilliantly, with the man's ego well out of control. Loved the statues he'd had erected of himself; that was a very nice touch. But the main reaction from me was the beginning of the episode where The Master is taunting the Doctor and really rubbing his nose in his victory; treating him like a dog. It was almost mildly shocking. He was even belting him around a bit later on. It actually made me feel a level of dispise for the charatcer I'd never experienced before. He's a heartless twat. Always has been of course, but you just wanted someone to go over and plant a big fist in his face.
John Simm was marvellous throughout, and the end scene where the Master says he's won as he 'dies' was well played by both Simm and Tennant.

Plus mentions of UNIT, Axons, Sea-devils and Daleks! Nice touches.

Also liked the picking up of the ring and the laugh. Hardly an original way to give the character an upteenth chance, but very pleasing. Who picked it up??!

It's flawed, and there are other aspects I didn't like, but the good was very good, so I'm being generous and giving it a 9

[Si Hunt]

Who picked it up??!

Light entertainment television presenter Fearne Cotton.

Si.

[Jon Masters]

There'll be Sea Devils in 'Voyage of the Damned' I bet

I'm thinking perhaps the Eternals are having a re-match, and Striker's gone for the biggest ship he can think of.

The fan-wee part of me hopes it's an adaptation of DWM comic strip "Ship of Fools" and will feature the new companion 'Oberman the emotional Cyberman '

[WhiteCrow]

Do you think the figure for "100 year old Doctor" will come as a double pack with "Dobby the House Doctor", or they'll be sold separately?

[Captain Tancredi]

Another thought about the ring- perhaps it was Lucy picking it up to ensure the Master stayed dead? In that if she kept it, perhaps put it in a bank vault somewhere and made sure nobody could get at it, then whatever's left of the Master would be trapped for as long as the ring was hidden away. But things get lost, of course, fall down the back of the sofa with the bus tickets, and so who's not to say that five years down the line it might not get found again...

...on the other hand, it might not make a bad opener for Torchwood S2 to have Gwen walk into the Hub, hold up the ring and ask Jack, "This what you wanted?". Except she doesn't strike me as a red nail polish kind of girl. Ianto, on the other hand...

[WhiteCrow]

Hmmm - Lucy as a sexy female version of the Master ... what would she do with her Tissue Compressor huh? Oh I like this - hope she turns up on Torchwood as a very bad girl who makes a move on Eve Myles ...