The Dracula Movies.

[Carol Baynes]

I'm trying to remember that some people have lives.

...and they shall all be mine! Come over here! I SAID COME OVER HERE and drink from me! Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccck!!!

Whoah, I'm starting to scare myself there!

I watched Todd Browning's version again a few days ago. I shall write a review shortly! I've also watched Hammer's version again, and seen the Jess Franco version, and the ones with Jack Palance and Louis Jourdan! I'm all vamped up!

[Wayne]

Wow@Carol!

So when are you watching the 1931 Universal Wayne? - I think I'll give that one a spin at some point today

Well i'm not sure because we're still waiting on Alex, Paul & Mac. Initially i was thinking Sunday/Monday, but we'll see how it goes. I'd rather wait a few for more days rather than people start getting behind already. I'm trying to remember that some people have lives.

Ok, my thinking now is Tuesday or Wednesday for the next one. That will've given about 10 days in all for people to've gotten their 'Nosferatu' reviews up, & we can always double back if neccesary. And i'm out tomorrow night, & Monday day anyway.

[Carol Baynes]

Just noticed that "Dark Prince: The True Story of Dracula" is one of the movies on the list. I don't think I've got a copy of that, actually. But as it isn't an adaptation of the Stoker novel (as far as I can tell) should we be watching it as part of this thread? There are dozens of films featuring Dracula, but they're not based on the novel, which I thought was the idea- to watch and discuss those films only?

[Wayne]

Just noticed that "Dark Prince: The True Story of Dracula" is one of the movies on the list. I don't think I've got a copy of that, actually. But as it isn't an adaptation of the Stoker novel (as far as I can tell) should we be watching it as part of this thread? There are dozens of films featuring Dracula, but they're not based on the novel, which I thought was the idea- to watch and discuss those films only?

I've never seen it so i wasn't sure how much it relates to the book, but i get the impression that it builds on the Vlad Dracula business that was featured quite a bit in 'Bram Stoker's Dracula', so i thought it looked interesting.
Strictly speaking though, You're quite right, So we could just keep it as an optional extra or something. I definitely sent you a copy though.

[Alex]

Apologies if I cover old ground here, but I haven't read anyone's responses yet because I didn't want to spoil the film for myself.

Nosferatu's been a film I've wanted to see for years, and so I was really looking forward to it. Which can of course be a bad thing, but I'm glad to say that the film really did live up to my expectations. I did find first couple of scenes perhaps a little longwinded, but then at this point I found myself just really intrigued by how the film was shot, the set design, the locations used, and just how it was directed in general - especially when concerning what was left unsaid and what information was put across with the dialogue cards. But soon I was drawn in to the plot, at the point Hutter leaves for Transylvania, and enjoyed it thoroughly from there on in.

Having seen a fair few older films, I wasn't expecting too much on the acting side of things, but there was some really great performances in it. I think the guy who plays Hutter is particularly good at not over doing some scenes which could have become unintentionally funny if not filmed carefully, and though there's the odd extra who's a bit dodgy (the first mate on the ship pulls some really funny faces just before they throw a body overboard), nearly everyone's really good. But it's Max Schreck who makes it such a classic film. He manages to even stand in a way that makes him unsettling to watch, and his quite frankly chilling stare is disturbing in a way that lashings of OTT gore never can be. Like (most of) the best horror films, they use him sparingly, making the time he has on screen all the more unsettling, and his performance is superb, and it makes Shadow of the Vampire even more believable to me now!

I think one of the reasons that this has become a classic is that Murnau really knows how to frame images, in a very artistic way, the longshot of Nosferatu carrying his coffin through the archway I found particuarly effective and eerie, as was the scene where they find the dead ship captain, and the blood stained side of the ship behind him. The speeded up scenes work really well too, especially when Hutter is taken in the carriage to the castle, and when we see Nosferatu preparing his coffin outside of it. He's clearly a film maker who put a lot of thought in to the feel and the look of the film, and I think that's one of the reasons it's such an iconic one.

I do wonder if I'd enjoyed it as much without the dramatic score - but bar that I've no complaints at all, this is a real classic and I'm really glad I've finally seen it now.

Incase anyone's interested, you can watch (and download legally as it's now out of copyright) the uncolourised version here - http://www.archive.org/details/nosferatu - though it does have an unfortunately poor score to it.

[Wayne]

Really glad you've enjoyed it, Alex! I wasn't sure of your personal history or feelings towards old movies, because i know you're well into your modern horrors, so i'm pleased it's been a good experience for you.

But soon I was drawn in to the plot, at the point Hutter leaves for Transylvania, and enjoyed it thoroughly from there on in.

I agree that this is pretty much where the film starts to take off. To be honest, i could easily skip the first 20mins after having seen it twice now.

I do wonder if I'd enjoyed it as much without the dramatic score - but bar that I've no complaints at all, this is a real classic and I'm really glad I've finally seen it now.

I think James Bernard's score really helps tremendously on the BFI version. It's naturally very Hammer-esque, & has many similiar motifs & trademarks that he used for his Hammer Dracula scores, but i think it really suits 'Nosferatu'.
When i first bought the dvd, i got an old VHS of the print of 'Nosferatu' from Nottm library for comparison's sake, that's been around for ages before the BFI dvd, & it really brought home to me just how important the music is in silent movies.
The music in the old version was ok, but the soundtrack was such awful quality. I think Bernard's music does the film more justice.

[Alex]

Really glad you've enjoyed it, Alex! I wasn't sure of your personal history or feelings towards old movies, because i know you're well into your modern horrors, so i'm pleased it's been a good experience for you.

I agree that this is pretty much where the film starts to take off. To be honest, i could easily skip the first 20mins after having seen it twice now.

Well thanks again for lending it to me. And whilst I do love modern horror films, I'm pretty passionate about most cinema really - I know it's a bit of a cliche but Citizen Kane is one of my favourite films, though it was only when I saw it second time that I began to really love it - but I did wonder if I'd enjoy Nosferatu simply as a great horror film, or in a more technical way where I'd be watching out for how they used to make films back then. Fortunately it was the former, though the latter did intrigue me too.

I think James Bernard's score really helps tremendously on the BFI version. It's naturally very Hammer-esque, & has many similiar motifs & trademarks that he used for his Hammer Dracula scores, but i think it really suits 'Nosferatu'.
When first bought the dvd, i got an old VHS of the print of 'Nosferatu' from Nottm library that's been around for ages before the BFI dvd, & it really brought home to me just how important the music is in silent movies.
The music in the old version was ok, but the soundtrack was such awful quality. I think Bernard's music does the film more justice.

Cool, I look forward to hearing more of scores if they're of that quality. I can imagine it wouldn't be so effective without it, but then in context I imagine the horrified reaction it received from the audience at the time would more than make up for it.

I've just read the other reviews and they've all been great stuff, I picked up on the symbolism mentioned in Ant and Carol's posts especially and will comment on that, but not now as it's ridiculously late!

Edit: I've just found this website which is pretty interesting - http://www.nosferatumovie.com/ - it's a bit light on reviews and discussion of the film (I think the reviews here are easily better!), but it does have some cool snippets of information, and some great photo's of how some of the locations look today.

[Wayne]

There's one thing that fans of Stoker's novel might've noticed.
'Nosferatu' set the pattern for the vast majority of vampire movies to come with the very first vampire death by sunlight.
And yet in Stoker's novel, Although his powers were weakend during the daylight hours, Dracula could actually move around during the daytime. I think the Coppola film 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' (although i've not seen the Franco or Curtis versions yet) was the first film to put this right according to Stoker's concept.
I don't want to get heavily into discussing Coppola's film yet of course, But it's interesting that Murnau introduced what you might call a bastardization of Stoker's original concept, & it became part of vampire lore for the next 70yrs!

[Carol Baynes]

I've never seen it so i wasn't sure how much it relates to the book, but i get the impression that it builds on the Vlad Dracula business that was featured quite a bit in 'Bram Stoker's Dracula', so i thought it looked interesting.
Strictly speaking though, You're quite right, So we could just keep it as an optional extra or something. I definitely sent you a copy though.

I'm sticking to my guns on that one. Vlad the Impaler wasn't part of Stoker's novel. If we're including that one, then it opens the coffin lid for a few more titles, which loses the point of the thread in my opinion. But I don't want to get too bossy and demanding as it's your thread originally.

Going watching the Klaus Kinski film later this morning. Not sure if I'm looking forward to seeing that one, but it looks interesting.

Can I post up a review of Todd Browning's Hollywood version yet?

[Wayne]

I'm sticking to my guns on that one. Vlad the Impaler wasn't part of Stoker's novel. If we're including that one, then it opens the coffin lid for a few more titles, which loses the point of the thread in my opinion. But I don't want to get too bossy and demanding as it's your thread originally.

Like i said, you are right about that one. I was more curious to find a Dracula (based) film that i haven't yet seen, which is why i was gonna include it. As i said, we can treat it as an 'optional extra'. Those who don't want to include it don't have to. I mentioned earlier that i'd be touching briefly on a few of the Universal & Hammer sequels, so i'll probably treat it in the same way.

Can I post up a review of Todd Browning's Hollywood version yet?

You can if you want, but i won't read it because i haven't watched it yet. Bloody queue jumpers!
For reasons mentioned previously, i'll cover that one on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[Carol Baynes]

I shall wait then. I've had loads of time to watch them you see, so I'm keen and eager!

[Logo Polish]

By the way, concerning the query as to whether the Marc Warren version was ITV or BBC, apparently it was an ITV production for the BBC. So it's both, in a way.

[Wayne]

I shall wait then. I've had loads of time to watch them you see, so I'm keen and eager!

And i'm enjoying your enthusiasm! I'd just like to give Paul & Mac a bit more time, as much as anything.
You could type it up in Word Pad, ready.

By the way, concerning the query as to whether the Marc Warren version was ITV or BBC, apparently it was an ITV production for the BBC. So it's both, in a way.

ITV making something for the BBC! That's a bid odd isn't it?

[Logo Polish]

It is unusual, although I gather The Royle Family was another example of the same thing.

[MacNimon]

Like Alex, Nosferatu was a film I'd long wanted to see. And also like Alex, I wasn't disappointed when I eventually got the chance. I thought it was excellent! Although I've got to admit that for the first 15 minutes or so, I found it a bit of a chore because the last time I watched any sort of silent movie would have been those Buster Keaton/Harold Lloyd etc shorts which were shown on tv regularly back in the seventies.

But once Hutter set off on his travels, and particularly after he met Count Orlock, I found this to be pretty gripping stuff. From this point on, there was an atmosphere of menace throughout the film which never disappeared, and Max Shrek was excellent in the role. This is what a vampire should look like! If I was Hutter, one look at him and I'd have been off like a shot! No way would I have spent a single night alone in a remote castle alone with that character! (I particularly loved the scene on the ship when Orlock rose out of his coffin...he didn't even look as if he sat up, he just appeared to stand straight up without even bending his legs!) By now it was pretty easy to ignore the fact that this was a silent movie, and the strong musical score was one of the plus points here, successfully helping convey the menacing atmosphere. The only part of the story which had me puzzled was that when Hutter watched Orlock leaving the castle, why did he then rip up some sheets to tie together so that he could climb out the window? He wasn't locked in the room (unless I missed something at that point) so surely it would have been easier for him to just go out the front door? But perhaps it was just me not paying attention at that point.

Although I have recently been enjoying several of the Universal horrors from the 30s, it was still a bit of a culture shock to start with, watching this one. I was amazed at just how much film-making had progressed in a decade or so! But even so, I think watching those Universals helped acclimatise me a bit to the era; if it hadn't been for this I probably would have struggled along with Ralph to watch this one. But as it is, I really enjoyed this!

[Carol Baynes]

I was amazed at just how much film-making had progressed in a decade or so!

Don't you mean 'regressed'!

For innovation and technical brilliance "Nosferatu" gushes blood all over "Dracula" '31, as good as it is, in my opinion.

[Milky Tears]

Not just innovation and technical brilliance. There's more sex, drugs and nudity in those silent films as well.

The Hays Code destroyed my love of mainstream US cinema for thirty years!*



* it would've done if I'd actually been alive back then

[Wayne]

I thought it was excellent!

But as it is, I really enjoyed this!

Yay for Mac!

From this point on, there was an atmosphere of menace throughout the film which never disappeared, and Max Shrek was excellent in the role. This is what a vampire should look like! If I was Hutter, one look at him and I'd have been off like a shot! No way would I have spent a single night alone in a remote castle alone with that character!

I like the way you put it, & i must agree! You've have to be mad to!

Nice to get your thoughts, Mac. I'm getting itchy for the next film now, so i think i'll be moving on to Universal's 1931 Dracula, tomorrow night.

[Alex]

Sorry for posting this before everyone's finished Nosferatu, but I'm off up to London tomorrow for a short while so wouldn't be able to do so any other time.

Dracula - 1931.

As has been mentioned before, this is the version of Dracula that created the portrayal of the Count as a sophisticated and charming creature of the night, rather than the inhuman beast of Nosferatu. I think because of this it's not as scary as Murnau's film, but I did find it equally as interesting in other ways. Bela Lugosi's delightfully charming yet darkly unsettling at the same time as Dracula, and it really is a fittingly hypnotic performance. The way they light him, and especially his eyes, is very effective, as is the way he slowly creeps towards his victims. He really makes it the classic it is, and I think an actor of a lesser quality or presence in the role would have made for a far poorer film.

It has a great beginning, with a superb performace from the actor who plays Renfield - his insanity is carefully handled and works really well - but for me the film really steps up a level when Van Helsing and Harker and Mina turn up on the scene, the Count's seduction of Mina, and his interplay with Van Helsing, are both fantastic sections of the film.

Browning's direction, whilst interesting, and he certain has an eye for a good image, isn't as impressive as Murnau's, but then perhaps that shouldn't be too surprising considering this is a Hollywood effort. He certain makes good use of some of the majestic sets though, and there's some intriguing lighting and camera work for the time. You can tell the film was based on a play based on the novel though, much of the second half is set at the Sanitorium and it perhaps suffers a little for this, but not in a major way.

Unfortunately I found the ending to be a bit of a damp squib - though this may be more the fault of the novel than the film itself - but after the way the tension has been so well built up, for Van Helsing and Harker to find and kill Dracula so easily was a tad disappointing.

And alas some bits just don't work - certainly the scenes with the wobbly flying bat are pretty funny when they shouldn't be, and even back then it must have looked ridiculous. The odd bit of bad acting spoils things too - the guy who plays Martin who works at the Sanitorium is really appalling ("He's craaaaazy"), and Harker's a bit wet, but these are minor quibbles really considering the overall quality of the piece.

So a slightly mixed bag then, and certainly not as wonderful as Nosferatu, but I did really enjoy watching this, and it gets a 7.5 / 10 from me.

[Paul Monk]

Can I just say wow at everyone's posts. It's all very highbrow and academic here! (well apart from the last few posts)
I don't know what I can say that hasn't been covered before. For me Nosferatu is THE creepiest Dracula film. Orlok is just so unlike any other vampire before or since (well apart from Klaus Kinski in Nosferatu ) I like the fact that he's very rat-like and rats appear in the film a various intervals as well whereas in most films its bats that are the main animal. Orlok has rat's teeth and claws as well. Max Shreck's performance is brilliant. He manages to be melodramatically creepy and subtlely unsettling, not bad for a silent film. As with a lot of silent films the performances take a bit of getting used to with all the exaggerated expressions but once you do its brilliant.
The film also has some great effects considering its time. I particular like the bit where Orlok rises from his coffin (an effect that will be used in some of the other Dracula/Vampire films) and the bit on the ship where his face fades in whilst the sailor is in the hold.
The score wasn't bad either. I've seen this once before with a different score, I'm not sure who by, but being a fan of James Bernard's music I really enjoyed this version, although I did have to smile a bit when the "Nos-Fer-Ra-Tu" theme came on.

Sorry for not being as thoughtful as the other posts. I trying to write this with the children hassling me every 2 minutes.

[Wayne]

It's all very highbrow and academic here!

Do you think so? (Have you read Ralph's 'review') (Sorry Ralph, couldn't resist it)

Sorry for not being as thoughtful as the other posts. I trying to write this with the children hassling me every 2 minutes.

Nothing to apologize for Paul, it's not a competition! Nice to get your thoughts though. I'll be doing the 1931 Dracula tonight, & will catch up with Alex's comments, then.

[Ralph]

Do you think so? (Have you read Ralph's 'review') (Sorry Ralph, couldn't resist it)

Totally accept that

Anyone's that interested though can see my previous enthusiasm For Dracula movies though not written in a high brow style on the Hammer Horror thread.

I don't feel I've got anything to prove among friends and I realised I would stand alone as a philistine, still I'd rather be honest with my thoughts

Anyway Shut It! OK?

[Wayne]

still I'd rather be honest with my thoughts

What thoughts? You didn't really say anything!

[SiHart]

Don't let them bully you Ralph!

Si xx

[Ralph]

Don't let them bully you Ralph!

Si xx

It's nice to have at least one pal on here