The Return of The Return of The Return of Red Dwarf

[SiHart]

I agree with Pip broadly- though I wasn't a fan of season 7! I found there was plenty to laugh at all the way through and there was some great character moments in the bats arse plot. I wasn't looking forward to it at all, but found there was lots to enjoy.

Si xx

[Antony Cox]

I watched the whole thing last night.

I've never been much of a fan of RD, but that's not to say I dislike it; it's just never grabbed me. I watched most of the very first season but didn't really follow it after that.

Saying that, Back to Earth was enjoyable to watch but rather surreal. It took me a while to get used to the whole post-modern 'we're characters off the telly' thing, and as interesting as it was I'm not sure it was completely successful.

On the whole it was amusing, though the lack of a laughter track did stop me from laughing at all, though I did LOL (which is unusual for me watching a sit-com) at the bit where Lister was typing away Mind-Robber style and Rimmer was thrusting himself against the corner of the table whilst the other two were continuously stepping on rakes!

There were lots of serious drama elements to it - not having watched the show much I'm not sure if this was commonplace through the series - but Craig Charles was very good indeed throughout these scenes.

An unusual and open-ended ending too - does anyone know if they're going to make any more?

[SiHart]

Of course the whole premise was stolen from The League of Gentleman film, where the creators really did appear as themselves too, but I'm not going to mention that!

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

does anyone know if they're going to make any more?

Nobody in the world!

But if it gets Dave's highest ever ratings, then there's a chance.

I paticularly liked Kryten's talking to the post box. Although when the joke started, I thought 'God how lame, what an old chestnut'. It's a familiar joke, but it was done so well!

[Dirk Gently]

It was the best acting I've ever seen on Coronation Street, EVER!

[Perry Vale]

Thought it was enjoyable, overall. First episode was a bit slow though.

Has Doug Naylor really fallen out with the BBC these days, how come it was on Dave? I haven't read any behind the scenes stuff about it.

[Rob McCow]

According to DigitalSpy, the BBC didn't want a ninth series.

BBC Two has decided not to make a proposed ninth series of cult comedy Red Dwarf, according to the show's official website.

Summarising a statement from co-creator Doug Naylor at the recent 'Dimension Jump' convention, Reddwarf.co.uk revealed: "Some time ago, BBC2 decided not to take up their option for a potential Series IX, instead they said they were keen to pursue other projects.

"They also told us that they weren't interested in buying the TV rights for the Red Dwarf film, despite liking the script, as they weren't convinced the film would be a success."

A big screen version of the show, which ran for eight seasons between 1988 and 1999, has often been promised, but struggled to secure sufficient funding.

Interesting.

[Perry Vale]

Yes, and a bit surprising, really. Thanks for that.

[Si Hunt]

I got the impression that the BBC would have taken a Series 9 after Series 8, but they wanted to make a movie instead so went off and chased the big bucks fruitlessly for ten years, then when they failed they went back to the BBC and said "ok, how about that series then?" so they probably thought that was a bit of an insult, the bird had flown etc. and told them where to stick it!

Can someone tell me, was there supposed to be an all-new Smeg Ups show after Saturdays episode? (i.e with Back to Earth out-takes). The Radio Times said "Smeg Ups - NEW - Patrick Stewart introduces out-takes", but when I taped it I got one of the old Smeg Up shows with Kryten presenting.

Si.

[SiHart]

Patrick Stewart did a very short introduction to it. It was from BBC2's Red Dwarf night of some years back I believe.

Si xx

[Llordllama]

Nice work if you can get it eh Patrick? Some of those smug ups were new to me as well as I must have missed this show when it was on BBC. Rounded off my Red Dwarf weekend nicely.

[Pip Madeley]

I got the impression that the BBC would have taken a Series 9 after Series 8, but they wanted to make a movie instead so went off and chased the big bucks fruitlessly for ten years, then when they failed they went back to the BBC and said "ok, how about that series then?" so they probably thought that was a bit of an insult, the bird had flown etc. and told them where to stick it

The truth is that Doug Naylor wanted to do a movie before series 7 even came about - the Beeb meanwhile wanted more episodes, because in 1996 Red Dwarf was stuck on 36 episodes and they wanted 52 - the required number for international syndication. Doug Naylor agreed to a seventh and eighth series (8 episodes each to reach the magic number) prior to making the movie and this is the reason Chloe Annett was introduced as Kochanski; she was the eye candy for the movie.

The Beeb were pleased because they had 52 episodes to sell as a package - they also had the first three series remastered so TV companies would pick them up, as previously they had not sold as well as the later series due to the comparatively poor production values. Anyway, Series 8 ended and Doug was left trying to get the movie made.

Meanwhile, the all-important overnight ratings:

Part 1 - 2.41m
Part 2 - 0.93m
Part 3 - 1.02m

Excellent for part 1, very good for the other two when you consider the competition and Easter. You think this will be enough for Dave to want to make more?

[Si Hunt]

Oh dear, 40% of the audience dropped off after Part 1!

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

I'd say that was three episodes of enjoyable TV, but by no means the epic return of a classic we've been waiting for for ten years.

The plot is pinched straight from a previous episode, Back To Reality', in which a squid covers them in ink and they embark on a hallucinogenic trip that convinces them their lives are not what they thought. They even remind us of that fact by commenting on the events of that episode several times. The bits that weren't pinched from that were pinched from Bladerunner, again stated in the dialogue. I'm afraid that after ten years of waiting for new stuff, I was rather looking forward to some new stuff.

Continuity apparently went out of the window with the idea of alternate universes. It seems the Cat brought the squid on board way back in series 5, and she grew in the meantime. This rather overlooks the fact that between then Red Dwarf was dismantled and reassembled by Kryten's nanobots under Holly's direction, and was last seen dissolving, the crew having evacuated and Lister, Kryten, Cat and Kochanski having escaped to a mirror universe where everything was opposite. This Red Dwarf clearly looks different from that seen in series 8 (being closer in fact to its original shape from series 1-5before the nanobots rebuilt it to old design specs from before JMC budget cuts forced it to be made a lot shorter than planned). Also, when did the hard light Rimmer return? He went off to be Ace Rimmer, and the Rimmer of series 8 was alive. The hard light version of Rimmer was not a standard JMC hologram but the result of a run-in with Legion back in series 6. If the mythical series 9 and 10 were made of episodes that would have explained all this then thank heaven they are indeed mythical!

Those complaints aside, there were some excellent moments. Some of course are expected fare, such as Rimmer, Kryten and Lister making a less-than-dignified entrance into the alernate reality while the Cat lands on his feet and slinks of being as cool as ever. Rimmer killing the other hologram was brilliant. All the cast were on form, and Craig Charles's moments with Kochanski, both at her grave and in the false reality, were very moving. For one moment I wondered if the end was going to go along the scmaltzy lines of 'the characters are kept alive by the fans, not the creator, the series having grown beyond its original status as a mere TV show', but I needn't have worried. The ending was good.

So, good, enjoyable, but hardly an epic return, being derivative in the extreme.

[Jason Thompson]

Can someone tell me, was there supposed to be an all-new Smeg Ups show after Saturdays episode? (i.e with Back to Earth out-takes). The Radio Times said "Smeg Ups - NEW - Patrick Stewart introduces out-takes", but when I taped it I got one of the old Smeg Up shows with Kryten presenting.

I put that down to one of two things: the guy who wrote up the Radio times section didn't know it was actually ten years old, and digital channels tend to describe things as 'new' in the sense of appearing for the first time on that channel, rather than for the first time anywhere ever.

[Si Hunt]

Interestingly, the Radio Times referred to the whole shebang as "Series 9".

Si.

[Rob McCow]

Interesting, Jason - I agree that the resolution of the plot was derivative, but I think it went in a very different direction to get there than in Series 5. I was hoping for something more complicated and mind-boggling, but that might have been too much for people to take in!

The other thing that baffled me was that they invented a new Rimmer-death when he died at the end of Series 8 anyway... or at least kicked death in the nuts.

[Si Hunt]

I think everyone elses opinion is wrong and mine is right.

Si.

[Paul Monk]

I quite enjoyed the last part.
And as Pip mentioned there were lots of jokes but they were old jokes, many of which would have been considered lame by teenagers, 20 years ago. Doug Naylor seems to write as if it is 20 years ago. The letterbox / Kryten scene was awful and theres no excusing the tentacle/testicle gag. Again this isn't helped by referencing a movie from the early 80's (and the slightly more rubbish version of it at that) Move on you old gimboid! Its annoying when more could have been made of stuff like the series9 and 10 references. They could have been a goldmine of comedy nonsense but instead were treated almost as if those 2 seasons had actually happened and were a part of established continuity.
Anyway I did largely enjoy it but it felt horribly dated when compared to other current comedy programmes.
If there are any more then fire Doug Naylor and bring in some "proper" comedy writers.

[Si Hunt]

I agree with Paul. I keep thinking of the "Space Corps Directive" gag as well - it just wasn't funny. It was trendy to knock them back in the day, but they always made me laugh. The "aural sex in zero gravity" one is STILL funny. But the one from BTE was just sloppy, badly constructed... it was like someone quoting half one of the old ones and getting it wrong.

I don't know, I'm starting to wonder if it's me. Maybe I'm too old for Red Dwarf humour now?

Si.

[Paul Monk]

Nope you're not alone, Si.
I'm afraid that Red Dwarf is now a relic and was very much of its time.

[Jason Thompson]

I disagree. I think the humour in the earlier episodes stands up well even now. Kryten's reaction to being told the crew of the Nova 5 are dead; the Wilma Flintstone conversation; teaching Kryten to lie, and even the Space Crops Directive gags up to series 6; all these are still funny and still make me laugh no matter how many times I watch them. I think the problem with the newer stuff is that Doug Naylor is trying to write Red Dwarf as it was when it was really popular rather than writing new Red Dwarf. The sad fact is that Red Dwarf worked best when it was written in partnership with Rob Grant. Naylor alone can't quite cut it.

[Si Hunt]

I theorise that two things that they did then that they don't do now get in the way of Red Dwarf being good again. (i) Clever, self-contained 30 minute plots and (ii) the "play" format, having a group of characters interacting with each other in a cheap environment.

"Red Dwarf" by its very nature is a spoof taken seriously. It mocks the sci-fi format. It should therefore always look cheap. Because that makes it funny. They are the ship with the Red Alert bulb. If you ask me it all went wrong when they started filming it and overpowering it with effects. A few CGI establishing shots are nice, but you don't want the effects to over-run the drama. And the beauty was always simple but ingenius plots, like the White Hole and Rimmerworld and "Back to Reality". Those scripts were marvels of economic writing.

Note that everything since Season 7 has either been too glossy or effects-driven, or too unweildy in the writing - three parters or linked stories and the like. The best episode of series 8 was "Cassandra" because it harked back to the old style - a clever, simple plot told in one episode with a killer twist ending.

Si.

[Paul Monk]

You've hit the nail on the head there, Si. I love series 1 and 2 for exactlyy the reasons you state. I think it lost its way when it forgot it was a comedy programme and started thinking it was a sci-fi programme.

[Pip Madeley]

I can't agree, I'm afraid. The show simply evolved, just like any other TV series and I've laughed at series 7 as much as any other series. Series 6 was good but it had become terribly formulaic (the same jokes in every episodes) - a fresh perspective was exactly what the show needed. It had the added bonus of looking more expensive, having more character and emotion than in previous series, adding a third dimension and renewed energy to the characters after 36 episodes. Yes it became a different show, but I happen to have liked it just as much.