The Real McCoy: Dragonfire

[Darren]

Sylvester McCoy's era was muddled and the standard of story varied greatly, making The Seventh Doctor sometimes unpopular. I loved his era though, so I thought I'd start informally re-appraising his stories on here.
I won't be approaching this in transmission order as i) I don't have all his stories and ii) I'd have to be in the mood for watching, so this will probably be a more occassional affair.

Let's start with a story I watched last night.

Dragonfire



The early part of the McCoy era was a bit panto and messy but this is where, I think, the potential started to creep in. There is still some dodgy dialogue and acting, most of it from Mel and Ace, and the Dragon looks a bit crap full length. But as the story moves forward, there are signs of a cracking adventure.
The idea of Iceworld being an eternal prison for Kane is a good one. An advanced civillisation banishing a prolific and ruthless criminal to a remote world as opposed to inflicting a death penalty, seen by the inmate as a fate worse than death, sets up the motivation for the character and strengthens the themes of hatred and revenge.
Kane himself remains today as a strong villain, Edward Peel playing the role straight and with understated menace. His cavallier method of dispensing with people is chilling (sorry). His death scene is surprisingly graphic for eighties Who, and could almost be a suicide, as he should have known the sun would pour in.

The second interesting character is Glitz. A roguish, disreputable chap always looking to making a bob or two, he could have made a better companion than Ace. An intriguing challenge for the Doctor to tame and educate over a period of time, especially as he had met the Doctor before, and with the demise of the Nosferatu, he would have been ideal as Mel's replacement.

The departure of Mel felt as though it was shoehorned in as an afterthought. This may have been the case as I believe Bonnie wasn't sure if she would leave here or at the end of Delta. It was a bit of a disappointment though. She didn't want to settle down or marry, or go home. She left because she wanted to continue travelling, which she could have done with the Doctor. It didn't really make sense.

Still, overall, Dragonfire is a fine story.

[Dave Lewis]

"Bilgebag! Stop looking at my Sabaloms!", yelled Ace, as Kane unleashed his gigantic monster.

[Wayne]

Hi Darren, Interesting stuff.
I haven't watched any classic Who for ages, bar some of this years dvd releases. So i might just watch a few of these with you. There's still a lot of McCoy that i've only ever seen the once, when i did my own era threads on the old board, but that's about 3 or 4 years ago now! (Time flies!)
I'll come back with some thoughts on 'Dragonfire' in a couple of days or so.

[Darren]

Hi Wayne. Good show!

@Dave

[Pip Madeley]

A few thoughts:

• Starts well with a very atmopsheric set, great use of dry ice. Tony Osoba gives a good turn. Not so sure about the bloke from London Burning who dies of fatally cold cheeks. As for Edward Peel, he's great. Although why Kane opened an intergalactic version of Farmfoods is beyond me, and I don't quite buy his suicide at the end. Good effect though.
• It's meant to be cold on Iceworld. So why does nobody act cold?
• The restaurant scene looks very panto/CBBC with lots of very dodgy-looking aliens, but it's great to see Tony Selby return as (a watered-down) Glitz, he was always one of my favourite characters from the period. But what happened to Dibber?
• Sylvester McCoy definitely shows improvement, particularly in the scene where distracts the guard with a deep discussion of philosophical schools of thought... but then there's a couple of embarrassing moments, like the silly sliding on the ice and the stupid cliffhanger to episode one with all the gurning. Kane sums it up well: "Are you some kind of idiot?!"
• I like the subplot with Belazs (Magenta!) and Kane - Belazs is a great character and you really feel sorry for her, it's a great little scene when the Doctor tells her he doubts she can ever repay her debt to Kane.
• Sophie Aldred makes a good start as Ace but is lumbered with a few crap phrases (mega, brill, wicked and bilgebag indeed)... as for Bonnie, she's lumbered with the character of Mel. She doesn't even get a good send-off.
• BOO! For the introduction of the daft double act hunting down the creature in episode three. They're bobbins, it's laughable watching them trying to carry those massive guns and actually look convincing.
• Above-par music from Dominic Glynn, he uses synth much better than Keff ever did.
• Very unbelievable ending - Mel and Glitz teaming up? As if.

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

A few thoughts on Pip's thoughts:

Starts well with a very atmospheric set, great use of dry ice. Tony Osoba gives a good turn. Not so sure about the bloke from London Burning who dies of fatally cold cheeks. As for Edward Peel, he's great. Although why Kane opened an intergalactic version of Farmfoods is beyond me, and I don't quite buy his suicide at the end. Good effect though.
I love the look of the opening scene, as Pip has said the dry ice looks very good (especially compared with some of the visuals latter in the story that dont look quite so great). It's just the acting in this scene that I'm not too sure about - it all seems a bit to contrived and OTT. Plus it's the start of the 'all guns should fire a shower of sparks' syndrome that carried on for a while in later stories.

It's meant to be cold on Iceworld. So why does nobody act cold?
That's a good point, unless they have all adapted - mind you that would imply that everyone you see spends a lot of time there - I guess the visitors would be cold, so fair point there I think!!!

The restaurant scene looks very panto/CBBC with lots of very dodgy-looking aliens, but it's great to see Tony Selby return as (a watered-down) Glitz, he was always one of my favourite characters from the period. But what happened to Dibber?
The restaurant scenes in part 1 are some of favourites (especially those with Glitz and Belazs). However, I must agree with Pip about the panto look to it. It's all a bit artificial looking.
As for Dibber - maybe they didn't want two actors from London's Burning in the same show!!!

Sylvester McCoy definitely shows improvement, particularly in the scene where distracts the guard with a deep discussion of philosophical schools of thought... but then there's a couple of embarrassing moments, like the silly sliding on the ice and the stupid cliff-hanger to episode one with all the gurning. Kane sums it up well: "Are you some kind of idiot?!"
I like the aforementioned scene with the guard, but for me Sylvester is still a bit too much of a clown in this story (granted it was really written for him - I believe). There are some good Doctor moments but the silly moments kind of spoil it for me.

BOO! For the introduction of the daft double act hunting down the creature in episode three. They're bobbins, it's laughable watching them trying to carry those massive guns and actually look convincing.
yes, the guns are very embarrassing - "you don't want that small plastic-looking gun........You want this large plastic looking one instead". The female guard tries to sound all tough and partly succeeds but the bloke from Grange Hill doesn't get too much to do - the charactors seem a bit stereo-typed anyway - lets have a tough one and make the other one a bit of a coward.

Above-par music from Dominic Glynn, he uses synth much better than Keff ever did.
I think it's his best ever score - as much as I like his bits in TOATL and Survival I think his use of themes is best in Dragonfire. I not really much of a Keff fan. To me Dominic Glynn and Mark Ayres were both far better than Keff but anyway thats a different debate.

Overall, I always enjoyed Dragonfire as a story. It just feels to me that the production staff have looked at it and thought "yep, it's ok, that will do" rather than making it as good as it could be. That attitude goes against what JN-T said in 1994 (see the Leisure Hive DVD) but that's just the way it appears on screen for me.

Well that's it from me - there's just enough time for me to say "Good night Teddy!"

[SiHart]

Dragonfire is an odd story. It's trying hard to be all grown up and adult but only succeeds in becoming more childish with it. Season 24 has a very tentative quality about it- it can't quite decide the tone it's going for and ends up a bit all over the place. At the time I thought it was wonderful, but I'm not so sure now. I definitely prefer Delta and the Bannermen.

I do like the music. Very atmospheric. Edward Peel is... ahem... chilling as Kane and gives by far the best performance in the story. I'm sorry i can't agree with Pip about Tony OSoba, who's performance is ever so wooden. Patricia Quinn is a lot of fun though! Sophie is variable. Great sometimes, too silly and trying too hard at others. She'd get better though.

The gun made out of plastic piping is just too silly though!

5/10.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

It's always been my least favourite of season 24, I'm afraid. Even that opening scene I find absolutely awful - those lines about "army of mercenaries, spreading fear and terror through the galaxy" are just so cringe-inducing, and Tony Osoba doesn't do anything with them.

Glitz is just any old rogue, and Tony Selby seems to be on autopilot here (a real shame, as he was superb in TOATL) making a flatly-scripted character even flatter.

McCoy's slipping all over the ice - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but surely somebody (the director, the producer, the script editor, the tea lady) must have noticed that McCoy was the only one acting as if the ice is slippery. Everyone or no-one, sure, but just the Doctor? It makes him just look such a prat!

On the other hand, Edward Peel is excellent, and so is the music, and Bonnie Langford is in fine fettle too. But it's a disappointingly bad ending to a season I otherwise enjoy a great deal.

And the less said about Sophie's debut the better I think...

[Captain Tancredi]

And the less said about Sophie's debut the better I think...

Funny, I've been watching 'Remembrance' the last couple of nights and it seems fairly obvious to me that in between seasons, the production team (and probably the actors too) sat down and thought long and hard about what sort of relationship the Doctor and Ace would have- the dialogue and interplay suggests that they've been together for a while now, and while they're not exactly finishing off each other's sentences, they're bouncing jokes back and forth. There are however pitfalls in having a middle-class actress in her mid-twenties playing a sixteen-year-old council estate girl and to begin with they seem to actually be navigating by them.

[Wayne]

I watched this earlier, & i quite enjoyed it! It's only the second time i've seen it since i first watched the McCoy stories in order on the old forum, & it made a pleasant change. I've just been reading over everyone elses comments, which i didn't read before i watched it tonight, bar Darren's opening post.
Based on my first time viewing of the whole season back then, i'd definitely agree with Darren that this is where the potential started to creep in after the dodgy, panto-esque start to the season. Granted, i've not watched the whole season tonight to make a fresh comparison, but watching 'Dragonfire' reminded me that i liked this one best of the season because for me it has quite a traditional feel to it.
At 3 episodes the story maintains it's pace fairly well, & never really feels like it's flagging, which is a good sign. I think the sets look pretty good, & i even like the Dragon, although what with the slightly large guns as well, it does remind of 'Aliens' on a BBC budget.
I agree with the general concencus about Kane. I think Edward Peel does a fine job of his performance! What a shame he didn't do more Who instead of ending up in Emmerdale.
As for Glitz, i admit that i havn't seen Tony Selby's previous outing as Glitz for a good while, but i think Andrew's comments come over just a tad harsh regarding his performance. I thought he was quite expressive & not 'flat' at all, but as i say, i haven't got a strong memory of his pevious outings to make a comparison.
I agree with Darren once again that the Bonnie & Sophie probably get the worst of the scenes. Mel's chats with Ace, (especially the one in Ace's untidy room) come across a bit early 'Grange Hill', but although i generally like Ace a helluva lot more than i used to, i have to admit that this is easily her worst outing. I think Sophie got a lot better over time, but here Ace is pretty embarrassing. For some reason she just reminds of the Comic Strip's 'Famous Five' spoofs.
As for McCoy, i was surprised how well i got on with his characterization of the Doctor, here. He's never been my favourite Doctor, but there's was nothing that really stood out as jarring or anything. I found Sylv perfectly watchable here.
I thought Patricia Quinn was variable as Belazs. Some bits were quite good, but some bits seemed below par, & failed to convince. However, i still liked her better than Bonnie Langford. Back in the day, i really disliked Ace/Aldred, but over the years i've warmed to her portrayal, But this is something i've never managed to acheive with Bonnie/Mel, despite her doing a good job in the BF audios these days. But in her tv days, everytime she's on screen i just can't help but be reminded of a school play. As dodgy as Sophie is n this one, Bonnie just doesn't cut it at all for me, & i'm not just talking about this story, i'm afraid. I was glad to see her go.
I'm pleased to find myself in agreement with Pip & Andrew about the incidental music, too! I definitely noticed that it was working quite nicely, & was generally sympathetic to what was happening on the screen. I couldn't remember anything about the music, & i was quite relieved, because unfortunately my overiding memory of incidental music from this era is not generally a good thanks to Keff the Destroyer! (crash bang trample!)
Overall then, it's a relatively goodun for me. 7/10.
What's next, Darren?

[Rob McCow]

I agree with Wayne (broadly).

Despite being overlit to the point of melting the viewer's face with the sheer bright-whiteness that pours of the screen, Dragonfire overcomes it's obstacles to be an entertaining story. All of the main characters (bar Mel) have interesting backstories, motivations for what they do and seem very alive.

Aldred performs a lot better after this story, she's alarmingly am-dram, paticularly when blowing stuff up. But there's promise there.

This was my firstest ever Doctor Who story that I did ever see. It got me hooked. So it can't be that bad!

[Paul Hayes]

It's not great, but out of that season it's probably the only one that's anywhere near decent so therefore benefits greatly by the comparison.

[DrWho2150]

Dragonfire was the first real Sylv era story that I enjoyed more or less, but things really did not get my interest with Ace until The Greatest Show in the Galaxy.

[Larry]

Dragonfire, is although a dim one one of the very very few bright points of season 24 it probably helps being only 3 episodes long and it dose have a naff cliff hanger but the death of Kane, is one of the best seen in the old series.

overall Dragonfire is one of many stories I neither like or dislike but if in your in the right mood it can still be a pretty enjoyable story.

[Dirk Gently]

I quite like Dragonfire, It's not without its faults but I've always had a soft spot for it & Kane's death scene is truly one of the best effects of the 80's.

[Larry]

IKane's death scene is truly one of the best effects of the 80's.

which dose make you wonder how they can get that so good and the rest of the season so bad.

[Dirk Gently]

Effects wise the season started well, Time & the Rani has some good effects & some mediocre effects but nothing really terrible for the technology available.

[Lord President]

Dragonfire has its good and bad points. The really jarring point for me is the little girl! What was the point? Was she someone's daughter who wanted to be in the series????

[FlyingBeastie]

Dragonfire and Delta are the only two episodes worth anything in McCoy's first series. I liked Delta, and LOVED Dragonfire. Ace was very charasmatic, I thought (I agree her phrases were naff, but she herself I was very fond of) Mel had a good send-off. I don't like Mel, but I don't hate her either. I just feel bad for her. All she needed was some good tlc from good writers to become a better companion and a more likeable one. I agree, her & Glitz? That was out of left field. Why would she leave traveling with the Doctor to go travel with him? (Did Ace tell her something about Glitz?) WHICH, by the way, I think is gross and rather not accept! It's one thing if she slept with Glitz, but it's another if he took her virginity! She's sixteen! What a peedo!

I'd also like to know what happened to Dibber. He was quite fit actually