Series 2 re-appraisal

[Dave Lewis]

I think that Milky Tears makes some interesting points, but ultimately he has neglected to mention the impressive origins of cheddar cheese. Lest we forget, cheddar cheese has become too widely produced to have a 'protected designated origin'. However, the European Union recognises 'West Country Farmhouse Cheddar' as a protected designation of origin. To meet this standard the cheese must be made in the traditional manner using local ingredients in four designated counties of south-west England: Devon, Dorset, Somerset and Cornwall. However, the Slow Food Movement, encouraged and advised by Neal's Yard Dairy, has recently created a 'cheddar presidia', affirming the existence of only three cheeses that can truly be called cheddar. Their specifications, which go well beyond the West Country Farmhouse Cheddar PDO, require that cheddar be made in Somerset, and with traditional methods, such as using raw milk, traditional animal rennet, and a cloth wrapping. A number of large commercial food companies have in recent years established well known brands in the UK for their cheddar cheese (Pilgrim's Choice, Cathedral City, Davidstow etc.). This move is considered by some to be a safeguard against the possibility of cheddar cheese receiving 'protected designated origin' status in the future. Some companies have also considered the possibility of relocating to Cheddar, Somerset if this occurs. Cheddar is the most popular cheese in the UK, accounting for just over 50% of the country's 1.9 billion annual cheese market. Like many cheeses, the colour of cheddar is often modified by the use of food colourings. Annatto, extracted from the tropical achiote tree, is frequently used to give cheddar an orange colour. The origins of this practice are clouded, but the three leading theories appear to be to allow the cheese to have a consistent colour from batch to batch, to assist the purchaser in identifying the type of cheese when it is unlabelled, or to identify the cheese's region of origin. Cheddar was traditionally packaged sometimes in black wax, but commonly in larded cloth, impermiable to contaminants but still allowing the cheese to breathe, though this practice is now limited to Europe and to artisan cheesemakers. In the United States, cheddar cheese comes in several varieties, including mild, medium, sharp, New York Style, Colby/Longhorn, white, and Vermont. New York style cheddar cheese is a particularly sharp cheddar cheese, sometimes with a hint of smoke. It is usually slightly softer than milder cheddar cheese. Colby/Longhorn cheddar cheese has a mild to medium flavour. The curds are still distinct, often marbled in colour, varying from cream to yellow. Cheddar that has not been coloured is frequently labelled as "white cheddar" or "Vermont cheddar", regardless of whether it was produced in the state of Vermont. Cheddar is one of several products used by the United States Department of Agriculture to track the dairy industry; reports are issued weekly detailing prices and production quantities. The state of Wisconsin produces the most cheddar in the United States; other centers of production include upstate New York, Vermont, and Tillamook, Oregon. Cheddar is also a good source of vitamin B12 and therefore recommendable for vegetarians. A slice of vegetarian cheddar cheese (40g) contains about 0.5 g of vitamin B12 (required daily intake for a grown man is 2.4 g).Famous farmhouse cheddars from Somerset include Keen's, with a strong tang, and Montgomery's, with an apple after taste.
White House historians assert that U.S. president Andrew Jackson held an open house party where a 1,400 pound (635 kg) block of cheddar cheese was served as refreshment; this block of cheese would later serve as direct inspiration for two episodes of the Emmy-award winning television series The West Wing. A cheese of 7,000 pounds (3,175 kg) was produced in Ingersoll, Ontario in 1866 and exhibited in New York and Britain; it was immortalised in the famous poem "Ode on the Mammoth Cheese Weighing over 7,000 Pounds" by James McIntyre, a Canadian poet. In 1893 farmers from the town of Perth, Ontario produced The Mammoth Cheese, at a weight of 22,000 pounds (10,000 kg) for that year's World's Fair in Chicago. When placed on exhibit with the Canadian display, The Mammoth Cheese promptly crashed through the floor and had to be placed on reinforced concrete in the Agricultural Building. It was more written about than any other single exhibit at the fair, and received the bronze medal. A still larger Wisconsin Cheddar cheese of 34,951 pounds (15,853 kg) was produced for the 1964 New York World's Fair. It required the equivalent of the daily milk production of 16,000 cows. Which is almost as many flaws as can be found in that dreadful, appalling, and unwatchable second series of Doctor Who. QED.

[Pip Madeley]

Get a room, guys.

[Dave Tudor]

@ Milky & The Flake

I'm sure that that would make a good series on CBBC.

Series 2 is fantastic. That is all.

[Milky Tears]

Some nice topping and tailing from Dave. I just did an intro and stuck a cheesy fool bit in the middle.

To keep this on topic (it's at least Doctor-related ), the last word should go to The Cheese Doctor Tony Princiotta:

http://www.thefoodpaper.com/intervie...rinciotta.html

He knows his stuff, but the website's BIG GAY POWER AGENDA! disgusts me

[Pip Madeley]

Words fail me.

[Ssarl]

LONG POST ABOUT CHEESE!
*is immensely gladdened*
Made my morning, that.

Re: Tooth and Claw. It's just a big giant ball of squee really. No plot or attempt coherency or any sort of thing like that, just lots of running, and squee. I mean just look at the opening scene, it doesn't even *try* be Doctor Who. Or Scotland. Or the 19th century. It's just squee. Every couple of minutes it delivers a punch the air moment of some kind, usually from the female characters.

Unfortunately... it does set up rather a lot of trends that work once but become bloody annoying over time. The Doctor and Rose's banter gets worse and worse over time, I remember commenting that they were becoming a clique that we are most definately on the outside of (and so is Mickey, and random characters which they choose to HATE). The Doctor squeeing over humanity is really novel once... but soon it was STOP SQUEEING YOU SQUEEING BASTARD!. Torchwood actually gets a valid mention here which fails dismally as an ending, but works as foreshadowing (also, Queen Vic as an enemy? SQUEE!), and thus begins a long, tedious series of namedrops. And Rose has no reverence at all for the way this society works, which will eventually progress to the point where 1950's London or Ood keeping will be judged WRONG in five minutes flat before she sets out to 'fix' things. Personally I'd love to see what would have happened if she set the Ood free - and then realised she's got to feed 500 of the bastard things...

[Wayne]

Interesting thread, Ant.
I shall contribute properly when i've finshed my Troughton thread, as i'm intending to give TCI, & S2 & TRB another go before S3 is aired.

I've just watched 'The Christmas Invasion', & i'll be going through to 'The Runaway Bride'over the next week or so, as a prequel to Series 3.
I actually thought a bit more of it than i did when i first saw it.
The Tardis' crash landing was brilliant, & i enjoyed seeing Mickey/Rose/Jackie catching up, & even the christmas tree attack.
It definitely has more of a genuine feeling of danger & jeaopardy about it than 'The Runaway Bride'. Particularly from the point of the appearance of the Sycorax. I liked Harriet Jones' steadfastness in her initial communications with them, & the following scenes where they realize that the Sycorax have a vial of the A positive blood, with which they are controlling 1/3 of the population to the verge of mass suicide adds a lot of tension.
Harriet Jones' tv appeal asking for the Doctor further underscores the gravity of the situation, & makes the scene where Rose is blubbing over the dormant Doctor & saying 'He's left me, Mum' seem a bit out of place, to put it mildly.
Even better are the following scenes after Jones & the 3 others are transported aboard the ship. The death of the scientist after he's just made a rather humble, poetic appeal to the Sycorax to show their compassion comes over as quite a shocking moment! And the Sycorax's ultimatum leaves the Prime Minster in a terrible position.
I have to me honest & say that Tennant still grates on me a bit, at this point. The tone completely changes as soon as the revived Doctor exits the Tardis, Although the must admit that the'I DON'T KNOW!!' Sycorax impersonation did make me laugh. Then it turns into a bit of a swashbuckler, which i don't have a problem with, as it seems quite fitting for a christmas special.
It does finish well, too. I liked the 'IT IS DEFENDED!' moment from the Doctor, & his reaction to Harriet Jones' decision to destroy the Sycorax ship was quite well played. The final scenes at the Tardis are rather nice, & slightly surprisingly, after watching this adventure, i find myself quite looking forward to 'New Earth', which is next up.

[Anthony Williams]

@ Wayne!

I'll be joining you from School Reunion onwards!

Ant x

[Wayne]

@ Wayne!

I'll be joining you from School Reunion onwards!

Ant x

Thanks Ant.

Well, it is your thread. I'm planning to a story per day, & thinking of 'netiquette', i was wondering about what to do if i overtake you.......
'New Earth' later today then.

[Wayne]

New day, new story, new season, 'NEW EARTH!'

It's a fairly lightweight story in a lot of ways, but not unenjoyable if you're in the right frame of mind. The Doctor & Rose seem like a 'couple' from the opening minutes. They seem like younger versions of Doctor 4/Romana 2, in a way.
I enjoyed Cassandra much more here than in 'The End of the World', but Billie Piper plays it brilliantly when Cassandra has inhabited Rose's body! The 'Oh my God, I'm a Chav' line still makes me laugh out loud, & Rose/Cassandra examining her new body in the mirror, is very funny as well.
As the story procedes we learn that there's actually quite a dark undertone to this story, when we see the 'patients' in the cubicles, & the Matron coldly incinerates someone asking for help....
Meanwhile, there's another fabulously played Billie Piper moment when Rose/Cassandra kisses the Doctor. Her little 'shiver' just after the kiss, makes it all the more hilarious!
I find myself experiencing the beginnings of a thaw in my perception of at least some of Tennant's acting qualities. Whilst i've been previously unimpressed by some the Tenth Doctor's displays of anger, the 'Human Farm' speech, & the Doctor's following anger towards the nurse, didn't feel as unconvincing as i'd previously perceived it. I remember watching all of Series 1 during the run up to Series 2 being aired, & perhaps my intial viewing of this story, coming hot on the heels of the Eccleston season, coloured my perception somewhat. After all, Eccleston was so damn good at blazing anger, but Tennant, though not as downright realistic at pulling this off as Eccleston was, pulls it off quite well here. I know this may seem like i'm damning Tennant with faint praise, but it is actually meant to be complimentary, honest! Meanwhile, Billie continues to shine as Rose/Cassandra. 'Smart Pants' - brilliant delivery!
I know some people had a problem with the dodgy science in this story, but as the story proceeds to it's resolution i can't say anything really glaringly stands out as not working for me. I think i found it easy enough on this second viewing just to get washed away with the adventure of it all. In fact the only thing that grates a bit on me in this one is Tennant i'm afraid, in the bits where Cassandra has inhabited the Doctor's body. To be fair to him, I can imagine it being quite a difficult thing to play, but he doesn't pull it off very well, to me. He's just not genuinely camp enough. If that makes sense... I actually think the chap who played 'Chip' makes a better job of it before Cassandra's brief final moments, but there you go. There's also the 'New Humans' speech which doesn't work for me either, i'm afraid. I still find it all rather OTT, in all honesty....
But all in all, a few niggles aside, this story, like it's predecessor, has been more enjoyable for second viewing.
Oh, a final mention, with all this talk of Cassandra, must go to Zoe Wanamaker who does a smashing job of bringing the 'real' Cassandra to life again, & it was nice that the actress was given a chance to appear properly at the end, in which she played that last scene very well indeed, where Cassandra was clearly touched by Chip's open admiration.
So, 'Tooth & Claw' tomorrow then. And this one i liked enough to've already given a second viewing some time after it's broadcast, So this will be it's 3rd go.

[Milky Tears]

I don't need to reappraise Series 2 as I get everything spot on first time. Get with it, folks!

[Wayne]

Tooth & Claw

I'm still not ever so keen on the Kung Fu bit at the beginning, which feels a bit superfluous, but once this story gets going, it proves to be one of the most atmospheric of this season. Pauline Collins immediately shines as the imperious Queen Victoria, & although some people were niggled by Rose's repitition of the 'not amused' gag, it still makes me chuckle in spite of the indeference.
The feeling of suspense starts to pick up once the drugged soldiers start dropping, & Rose finds the terrified servant girl in hiding, & increases further when they're captured & chained up with the other staff in the same room as the werewolf (to be). Then the tension really breaks through as the we see the full moon, & the transformation begin. To my mind the effects look great, & really do the scene justice. In the meantime Rose, although scared, manages to keep her head & organize the trapped servants into literally pulling together to break free.
Enter the Doctor, just as the werewolf is on the point of breaking free from the cage. Tennant does a good job of portraying the Doctor's momentary wonderment of the creature, & i like the moment when he & the creature face each across the corridor before the chase begins. Again, it looks great!
Then it feels like all hell breaks loose, as everyone is on the run from the werewolf. It swiftly kills the chap who tries to go after it, & whilst the soldiers' bullets cause it to falter, they don't actually stop it, as the one of them finds out after his bravery causes him to meet quite a shocking, grisly end! Then there's that brilliant split-screen scene where the Doctor & the werewolf are on either side of the door, & a continued palpable sense of tension as we hear the creature padding around outside, giving way to a nervous relief as the trapped occupants of the room realize that for some reason, it can't get in. It's at this point that we perhaps get one 'not amused' gag too many from Rose, but at least she's suitably contrite as she wilts under the stern response from Victoria.
The Doctor, in making good use of the library, starts putting together pieces of the puzzle, & after another blast of action & another sacrifice, manages to save the day in the nick of time like all good heroes do. The scene with the telescope was another thrilling, & great looking bit, & after a final scene stealer from Pauline Collins, this fast paced, thrilling adventure comes to an end with some funny gags about the current monarachy, & the beginnings of Torchwood.......
Yes indeed, 'Tooth & Claw' is still one of the highlights of Series 2, & Tennant's performance is largely fine in this one.

[Ralph]

Just watched "The Christmas Invasion".

I liked the opening with the crash landing TARDIS - the best bits of the whole story for me are the scenes with Jackie who makes it seem more tangible - she saves it for me in fact and is becoming an increasingly more important character from my perspective on this version of Who . I also liked the alien Father Christmases and the Tree which was a nice effect. I'd say the first half hour was ticking over reasonably, then....

Yet another Invasion over London...I just think less is more and it seems to be an invasion involving the whole planet every other week. If it was scaled down a bit I think it could be more effective. Just my view on it. The appeal for The Doctor by the Prime Minister just reminded me of something out of Batman in Gotham City...it just doesn't seem right. I prefer the idea of the anonimity of the Doctor only known to to the secret authorities such as UNIT.

Up until the point where the Doctor makes his entrance from the TARDIS it was holding my attention but then I just felt instantly bored as he deflated the atmosphere and suddenly this race which had almost eliminated 2 billion members of the human race had the Doctor running circles round them. Just doesn't work for me I'm afraid - suddenly it really felt like a show purely for the kids rather than a family audience...

The lines Tennant was given just turn me off...then there's comments on Arthur Dent...Lion King....plus his silent films acting style for the Doctor....

I just wanted the sword fight over and done with and get to the end by this stage... Tennant does his Raiders of the Lost Ark heroic stuff and the world is saved once again all wrapped up no time. No wonder this man is legendary he's up there with Superman, Batman and Spiderman.

Oops I'll probably get slated now for being a bit critical but sorry it's just how I feel about it. In the X files for example we didn't need the whole planet involved...why always the need for the mega grand scale? It all feels more Star Wars than DW to me - that performance from Tennant was the worst since McCoy.

Don't forget it's just my opinion - please feel free to ignore me!

Anyway I will be fair on the rest of the series and will keep an open mind - I definitely do like bits and pieces here and there!

[Wayne]

Oops I'll probably get slated now for being a bit critical but sorry it's just how I feel about it. In the X files for example we didn't need the whole planet involved...why always the need for the mega grand scale? It all feels more Star Wars than DW to me - that performance from Tennant was the worst since McCoy.

Don't forget it's just my opinion - please feel free to ignore me!

Anyway I will be fair on the rest of the series and will keep an open mind - I definitely do like bits and pieces here and there!

All fair enough if you ask me, Ralph. At least you give reasons for your opinions, & you can only be honest. I'm glad you're completing your journey anyway.
I know what you mean about the 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' comparison. It's precisely what i said about 'The Runaway Bride'. I think prepared to give a bit more leaway for the two Christmas specials. I can understand that they'd want to aim to keep a mainstream audience happy.

Yet another Invasion over London...I just think less is more and it seems to be an invasion involving the whole planet every other week. If it was scaled down a bit I think it could be more effective.

That does sound slightly ironic though, considering that your (& my) favourite era is the 70's where there's a lot of invasions of London/Earth.

[Ralph]

I think prepared to give a bit more leaway for the two Christmas specials. I can understand that they'd want to aim to keep a mainstream audience happy.



That does sound slightly ironic though, considering that your (& my) favourite era is the 70's where there's a lot of invasions of London/Earth.

Well I suppose... you're right on the first point - it has to be designed for a general appeal...

On the second point yes I like invasions of Earth but they don't always have to take over the whole planet in one day or involve the Prime Minister addressing the nation every other week. I understand that it appears in conflict with what I like in the past maybe it's just the speed of the whole thing all the time...the invaders arrive conquer and are defeated in an episode. I find it perplexing to explain!

[Wayne]

On the second point yes I like invasions of Earth but they don't always have to take over the whole planet in one day or involve the Prime Minister addressing the nation every other week. I understand that it appears in conflict with what I like in the past maybe it's just the speed of the whole thing all the time...the invaders arrive conquer and are defeated in an episode. I find it perplexing to explain!

I do know what you mean, i think. It's just presented in a bigger & more spectacular way than our beloved UNIT era. There is the influence of Hollywood movies there, but that's the times that we live in.
Keep going though, Ralph. It's good to compare notes, & Ant will be joining us soon.
So far, 'Xmas Invasion' & 'New Earth' have gone up a bit in my estimation, whilst 'Tooth & Claw' stays about the same, - But i liked that one anyway, first time round.
It's 'School Reunion' in the morning for me. I liked that one too, so i'm looking forward to it.

[Ralph]

Well I'm looking forward to seeing "Girl In The Fireplace" again and "School Reunion" second time around

Meantime elsewhere I'm on "Monster duty" for now so must dash!

[Jonno]

involve the Prime Minister addressing the nation every other week.

But TCI is the only episode that has the Prime Minister in it!

Unless you count the dead body of (presumably) Blair falling out of the cupboard in AOL?

[Ralph]

But TCI is the only episode that has the Prime Minister in it!

Unless you count the dead body of (presumably) Blair falling out of the cupboard in AOL?

Well some government official or other

[Wayne]

School Reunion

Awwwww!
I think i've actually watched this one 3 times already, so this was my 4th viewing. I'm very fond of this one, mostly for nostalgic reasons. It's such a big continuity link with the classic series, which is nice, & Sarah has always been my favourite companion, so this one couldn't really fail for me.
I love the scene where the Doctor first claps eyes on Sarah, & the following conversation where he can barely mask his delight! Tennant even sounds a bit like Tom when he says 'Good for you, Sarah Jane Smith!' Another great moment comes shortly afterwards when Sarah finds the Tardis standing there in the darkness of the basement, & the Doctor's 'Hello Sarah Jane' confirms to her who he is. Sladen plays Sarah's reaction brilliantly: Perfectly portraying the mixture of emotions that Sarah is feeling. Then Rose turns up, & i love the rivalry banter between them; 'Get you tiger!" Mickey sums it up pretty well with his 'Missus & the ex' comparison. He gets some great lines: 'If i were you, i'd go easy on the chips!' "Oh my God. I'm the Tin Dog'.
Sarah's arrival on the scene has obviously stirred things up for Rose as she has to come to terms with the fact that the Doctor is not just special & unique to her alone. All this is put across very well in the Doctor's 'Curse of the Timelords' speech, where the Doctor gives Rose his perspective in a well played scene by both Tennant & Piper.
Rose's relative insecurity comes through when she challenges Sarah over what you might say were her 'intentions' towards the Doctor, whilst Sarah for her part simply tries to explain her perspective on coming to terms with life without him. However, the two reach an understanding via the rather humourous one-upmanship exchange that culminates in: 'The Loch Ness Monster!' - 'Really?'.
I've just realized that i've got this far without saying anything about the actual storyline. I suppose that's an good an indication as any of how this episode is dominated for me by the return of Sarah, & not just that in itself, but the impact that it has on the Doctor/Sarah/Rose, & what it says about them. The Krillitane story was pretty good as it goes, but i'm still at the stage where this story could've been about pretty much anything, because for me it's about the Doctor & Sarah. However, the storyline does actually get rather good in the last 15mins. Though i reckon the Krillitanes looked a bit rubbish from CGI point of view, & they reminded me too much of the reapers from 'Father's Day'. But i thought it the plot was decent enough, & was certainly helped along by a great guest outing from a suitably sinister Anthony Head. I would've liked to've seen him take an even bigger role in things, but he didn't waste any of his on screen time; He did a good job of playing Finch, & as it's the first time i've seen this post-Buffy, it carries an extra bit of pleasure to see him on screen in Dr.Who! I've even found a bit more fondness for K9 through this story. I love that scene when he starts blasting all the Krillitanes - It's a great bit of camera work too! I'm also pleased to see the return of Mickey once again. A character i initially disliked, but who gradually grew on me throughout Eccleston's season. I was glad to see him join the Tardis crew, although slightly irked by Rose's continuing to want the Doctor all to herself kind of angle. Or maybe it's just about Mickey?
The goodbye scene between Sarah & Rose is nicely done, but the 'big' goodbye is obviously the one between Sarah & the Doctor, & it's beatifully played. The 'Goodbye my Sarah Jane' is a good Tennant moment in which i felt he hit just the right tone, but it's Liz Sladen's acting here that has the fanboy in me still feeling the sting of tears forming at the back of my eyes. It's just a lovely scene, It makes my heart want to burst
To my mind, 'School Reunion' is a triumph for the characterization the themes that it explores. It's also the first episode where i'm comfortable with Tennant all the way through, but for me personally this episode will always 'belong' to Elisabeth Sladen. I can't help but wish that they had put her into the Tardis crew again instead of relegating her to a kids tv spin-off. Maybe that's just the fanboy in me who's always loved the character, but i do think that even with Rose & Mickey on board, that they could've made it work. But even so, i'm grateful for this episode which is so full of warmth. And after all; Rose, Mickey, & the Doctor have their own futures to explore throughout the rest of this season.

[Ralph]

New Earth

Feel pretty much as I did first time watching this.

Good bits the body swapping at first but then it gets overplayed.

Piper acts it out very well and I think is the star of the show here with Tennant tagging along.

Cassandra was given more depth this time around and perhaps the familiarity from the first series made her more appealing this time.

Agaiin we rattle through the episode Doctor arrives, rescues, departs.

I still feel quite detached from the whole thing - the story doesn't get me emotionally involved - it's more like visual wallpaper.

I really want to get to "Girl in The Fireplace" asap!

[Wayne]

You made a big effort with that review!

[Ralph]

I've found that it's really easy when you've watched something thats got you excited or thrilled but when you feel indifferent it's a struggle!

[Wayne]

Oh well.
I'm skipping a day on this today. I'm too hungover to concentrate, & i've got a mate coming over early in the afternoon 'til tonight.
Hope you like 'Tooth & Claw' better.

[Anthony Williams]

School Reunion

Easily one of the best stories of Series 2.

As Wayne said, this one was brilliant, in part, for nostalgia reasons. Although I never saw Sarah Jane or K9 on original broadcast, they were still very much part of my childhood (indeed, the first pairing I ever saw was the 4th Doc and Sarah). It was great to see both Sarah Jane and K9 back in the series, and the chemistry between both of them and Tennant's Doctor was fantastic. "My Sarah Jane!" was easily one of the best moments of the new series so far.

Now, onto Rose... she wasn't too annoying for the most part of this. The way she was very sarcastic to the head dinnerlady ("he doesn't like the chips") I found highly annoying, probably because I'm judging her by my own standards, and I'd never dare to talk to anyone in a position senior to me in that tone. Anyway, the bitchyness with Sarah Jane wasn't too bad, and it certainly didn't annoy me in any manner at all. What DID annoy me about Rose though, was that final scene in the TARDIS, where she's getting upitty about Mickey coming along - in Series One, she got upset when the Doctor supposedly refused to let Mickey go with them. Yet here, she's the one getting uptight about him going with them. She just comes across as utterly unlikeable at that point.

The baddies, Mr Finch and the Krillitanes, were excellent, in my opinion. Mr Finch himself was brilliantly menacing, particularly with the scene in the swimming pool. Anthony Head really carried the part, making it his own. Further, I thought that the Krillitanes were an excellent concept that just weren't terribly well realised. The idea of a composite race really is an excellent one, and I do hope that they will be back at a later date, in a different form.

The plan of the Krillitanes was really a backdrop to the main idea of the story - to look at the emotional impact of The Doctor meeting one of his old companions again. Yet, that didn't stop the story from being good on it's own terms. Both story "threads" intertwined and mingled brilliantly, producing one of the best episodes of Series 2.

Ant x