Series 2 re-appraisal

[Wayne]

@Ant Glad you're back on the case.

School Reunion

What DID annoy me about Rose though, was that final scene in the TARDIS, where she's getting upitty about Mickey coming along - in Series One, she got upset when the Doctor supposedly refused to let Mickey go with them. Yet here, she's the one getting uptight about him going with them. She just comes across as utterly unlikeable at that point.

I know what you mean. Youd've thought that she would've learned something about not being possessive about the Doctor during this episode. She was doing well what with coming to terms with Sarah, but then it seems all out of the window again at the end.

[Logo Polish]

I'm the opposite of Ralph with Christmas Invasion, for me it only really moves up a gear when Tennant awakes and starts giving it loads, as it were. The last twenty minutes really liven the thing up AFAIC.

[Anthony Williams]

I know what you mean. Youd've thought that she would've learned something about not being possessive about the Doctor during this episode. She was doing well what with coming to terms with Sarah, but then it seems all out of the window again at the end.

totally... I liked Rose in Series One, but throughout Series Two, she becomes progressively more dislikeable, until the finale, when whilst we're meant to be feeling all emotive etc. about her being separated from the Doctor, I'm either cheering, or wanting to put my foot through the telly

Ant x

[Wayne]

I'm either cheering, or wanting to put my foot through the telly

Ant x

I'd stick with the cheering. You wouldn't want to get an Ian Levine/Milky Tears sort of reputation.

[Wayne]

Right, after my brief enforced hiatus, i started back on S2 this morning.
Hmmm..... I thought Ralph might've at least watched one more by now.
Anyway.......

The Girl in the Fireplace

I wasn't sure what to expect from this one because i've not watched it since it was aired, at which point it didn't really grab me that much.... I have to say that a 2nd viewing hasn't done much to change my feelings on it.
It starts intriguingly enough, & visually it's beautiful looking episode, but once again i find it a bit slow, & difficult to get really involved in. The robot/mannequins are quite effective, but i found the love story angle a bit contrived, & somehow it just doesn't convince.
My perception of Tennant is still generally improved since last year, but i still really don't like the 'drunk' scene. Sophie Myles is fine, & she looks the part of Madame Pompadour too, but it's the actual story that i struggle to get interested in. Whereas in 'School Reunion' the story didn't really matter, with this episode i'm struggling to get involved with the characters, & so because the story isn't doing much for me either, it means that there's not much going for me to latch onto.
I guess at the end of the day, it's just not my style - The Doctor crashing into the room on a white horse for instance, just doesn't invoke much excitement within me.... And although i can empathise with Rose & Mickey at the prospect of the Doctor being lost in time, that's one of the few moments where i feel like i vaguely care about what's happening to any of the characters. Apart from the ending which admittedly is quite sad in itself, & well carried off by Tennant. Yet it still ultimately leaves me largely unaffected compared to what i got out the emotional content of 'School Reunion'.
To be honest, i'm not completely sure why this episode doesn't really work for me. It's not a bad one as such, but i just find it rather dull, despite being pretty to look at.

[Wayne]

Not much action on this thread from Ant & Ralph. Good job i'm here to keep things going.


Return of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel

This story is another one on it's 3rd outing, as it came out tops for me last season, so i've been looking forward to giving it another go.
It works well for me right from the pre-teaser where Lumic introduces us to the newly designed Cybermen, & this already has the feel of a promising adventure! I've seen criticisms of Roger Lloyd-Pack's portrayal of Lumic, but i think it's fine. I enjoy it, anyway!
I have to say that i'm not particularly fond of the opening Tardis scene. The Doctor & Rose's offhand treatment of Mickey jars slightly, but i suppose it ties in with the fact that Mickey kind of grows up as a character during the course of this story.
The paralell London looks great with all the Zeppelins flying about, but there's something of greater significance for Rose, who realizes that her Dad is still alive. Cue the paralell Tylers: It's great to see Jackie again - She's such a fun character! The scene where Lumic activates her Cyber ear pods gives a further clue as to the scale of Lumic's sinister plans. Only 10 minutes in, & this story is already moving along nicely.
Tennant does well in this story. I like the scene where the Doctor is talking to Mickey in the dead Tardis. Before the Doctor finds the power cell, he's full of resignation about their situation. Tennant is actually really good when he's playing it straight! Meanwhile, we are learning more about the Cybus corporation, & there's further sinister goings on, as the homeless people are being collected.......
Back to the Mickey situation, He's realizing that he's going to be on the bottom tier in any relationship with the Doctor & Rose, & i like the fact that when he goes off from them, he's not intent on coming back if he 'finds something better'. Meanwhile, we learn more about Mickey's background through Rose talking to the Doctor about his Gran, after which there's another eerie example of the extent of Lumic's plans via the 'Daily Download' scene....... And back to Mickey again, for a nicely played scene by Noel Clarke as he meets his Gran, who to all intents & purposes, has been dead to him for 5yrs.
Another good scene is the one between Lumic & the President (nicely played by Don Warrington), where we see details of Cybus corporations ultimate upgrade. It's clear now that Lumic is determined to forge ahead with his plans despite the rejection of his proposals by the government. This is of course followed by that scene where the innocent captives are led in to recieve their ultimate upgrade, & Cane callously drowns their screams of agony with the music...... Meanwhile, Mickey meets his paralell counterpart: Ricky, & the Doctor & Rose gatecrash the Tyler's party, & i'm with the Doctor on being unable to supress an iresistable chuckle as Rose meets the 'other' Rose.
Noel Clarke gets to shine in his dual role as Mickey & Ricky, as we learn about Ricky & his gang of 'resistance' leaders, & meanwhile Rose has some interesting interactions with her paralell parents, inadvertently upsetting Jackie, albeit with the best of intentions. Then things come to a head in a glorious ending to part of this story, as the Cybermen literally crash the party, start deleting the guests, beginning with the President. As the episode ends, Jackie is being pursued by a Cybermen, & the Doctor & co are surrounded by Cybermen. (Btw... nice to see it confirmed that Rose does care about Mickey's welfare, abeit via a case of mistaken identity)
Cracking episode!
After the Doctor & co escape at the beginning of part 2, we learn that Pete Tyler was secretly trying to expose Lumic, who in the meantime has activated all the Cybus ear pods, & half the population (including Jackie) begins to march hypnotically towards their final upgrade. Meanwhile, the Cybermen are at large in the city, & in a surprising moment they manage to kill Ricky who doesn't escape in time. I love that scene where the Cybermen are just staring blankly at a shocked Micky on the other side of the gate.......
At Cybus corporation, Crane finally sees the error of his ways & is killed by the Cybermen after his unsuccessful attack on Lumic, & it looks as though Lumic's 'children', the Cybermen, are going to ensure that he becomes like them! Meanwhile, Rose is relieved that Mickey has survived, & the Doctor & co decide that they must get inside the Cybus factory to put a stop to things. The Doctor teams up with Mrs Moore, & Pete & Rose concentrate on finding Jackie, whilst in a heartwarming moment, the Doctor acknowledges Mickey after he sticks up for himself & is determined to make himself useful, & goes with Jake. This pleases me to see the character getting some proper treatment.
The scenes at the Cybus corporation look really good, with all the humans filing in, as Pete & Rose join the queue, & we see the sheer scale of the conversion factory. I love the scene where Pete & Rose encounter the Cyberman who was Jackie. The sheer shock for Pete & Jackie is very well played. A truly eerie moment! Meanwhile Mrs Moore, who is accompanying the Doctor, attacks a Cyberman with a 'home made' device, ("What the hell was that thing!") & knocks out it's emotional inhibitor. The following moment is a nod to Marc Platt's excellent 'Spare Parts' as the human being trapped inside realizes what she is, & this gives the Doctor the idea to use this against the Cybermen.
After another Cybermen arrives, Mrs Moore is killed, & the Doctor is taken to meet Lumic, who has been upgraded to Cyber-Controller. (Love the throne!) Meanwhile, Mickey & Jake have managed to knock out the transmitter to the ear pods & the humans filing into the factories all begin to flee, & the Doctor comunicates the plan to Pete & Mickey & co, who manage to send the code to disable the emotional inhibitors, causing all hell to break loose at the Cybus corporation as the Cybermen go mad. As the excitement builds to it's climax, Lumic the Cybercontroller is chasing the Doctor & co up the ladder of the zeppelin, but they manage to cut him loose, & he falls to his death in a thrilling finale.
I do love the ending to this story which is significant for Rose, who not only has to say goodbye to her Dad once again, but also has to let go of Mickey, who elects to stay behind to finish the battle against the remaining Cybermen, & to be with his new found Gran. The goodbye between these two is particularly poignant. It sees the acknowledgement that Rose & Mickey's relationship is firmly in the past. He's finally accepted after all the difficulties he's been through since the Doctor came into Rose's life, that she doesn't need him, & that he must move on for his own sake as much as anything. Anyone who's been involved in a relationship that's evolved in a similiar way can really empathise with Mickey at this point, & appreciate how much he's grown since the character we were first introduced to. Once again, Tennant hits the tone absolutely bang on as the Doctor says his goodbye's to Mickey, leaving Rose to say a final farewell which is marvelously portrayed once again by Billie Piper, & i can feel the sting of tears at the backs of my eyes again......
It's nice that this story ends on a good note, as Rose returns to see her real mother back at home, & Mickey sets off with a positive attitude to face a brave new future on the paralell earth.
This is a cracking story! It's full of suspense, action, excitement, & great character based stuff, particularly the development of Mickey. Along with 'School Reunion', this is Tennant's finest outing as the Doctor so far IMO, & this story upon it's 3rd viewing retains it's place as my favourite of the season up to yet. Hugely enjoyable, brilliant stuff!

[Anthony Williams]

sorry, I went home, and had a rather busy weekend.

will post my opinions on the last three episodes when i'm a little less knackered (later tonight )

Ant x

[Wayne]

sorry, I went home, and had a rather busy weekend.

will post my opinions on the last three episodes when i'm a little less knackered (later tonight )

Ant x

was just teasing, Boyo.......

[Ralph]

Oh forgot about this thread - back soon!

[Wayne]

Oh forgot about this thread - back soon!

I'm resigned to being alone on this thread.
Anyway.......


The Idiot's Lantern

I was a bit lukewarm about this one on first viewing, although there were some elements i liked, so i've been quite interested to see this was again.
I love pre-sequence teaser! Visually the whole thing looks brilliant. The atmosphere of the early 50's is captured really well, & the scene in the tv shop where Mr Magpie is attacked by 'the wire' looks really good!
I miss Mickey in this one already though, especially with Mr & Mrs Smugpants riding around on that scooter. I always think it's good to sees bullies getting their come-uppance, & yet somehow the scene where the Doctor & Rose are in Tommy's house & making a fool of the father doesn't feel quite right. Especially Rose who seems to relish it so much. However, the story starts to move on a bit when they discover the Gran upstairs with no face, & she's suddenly bundled off into the back of the van, which the Doctor upon following it discovers a building full of faceless people.......
Meanwhile, Rose goes off to Magpie's shop & does a bit of investigating of her own, in quite a good scene which culminates in her also becoming faceless, thanks to the Wire. Some of the following scenes give us little look at what seem like terribly backward attitudes of the 1950's. "Ooh, y'know what they say about them - Eddie, y'wanna beat that out of him!" / "I've got a position to maintain - It matters what people think!" But Eddie is soon revealed as an informer, & is reminded by his son just what the British people fought against in WWII.
It's soon revealed that 'the wire' is a non-corporeal entity left without a body, manifesting itselves through the electrical energy of the growing television network, where it's been feeding on people's energies, hence stealing their faces, & is planning a major feast via the tv transmitter on the millions of people watching the coronation. Or something..... It's a bag of bollocks actually, isn't it? Seriously though. There is a great concept in there, but it does seem a bit not completely thought out, & it feels a bit like they've tried brush a muddled story under a carpet of spectacle with the scenes at the end where the Doctor is up the tv transmitter battling it out with Maureen Lipman.
The domestic side of the story has a more satisfactory ending, though. Eddie gets his come-uppance & is thrown out of his wife's house, but i was glad that Rose encouraged Tommy to go after him, & in a sense be a bigger man than his Dad. Maybe his Dad might have the chance to learn a bit something after all.......
So ultimately for me then, 'The Idiot's Lantern' is an interesting if slightly wooly episode, but with some good character stuff, & a bit of social comment via the benefit of hindsight. Not really a highlight of Series 2, & certainly Mark Gatiss IMO, hasn't given us a story that's anything like as good as his previous 'The Unquiet Dead' outing of Series 1, But it's still a worthy attempt that has it's merits.

[Ralph]

Hiya Wayne just a quick post

I'm planning doing my next one tonight as I'm taking a break from my Horror Season

So no need to watch alone

It is good to get feedback I know myself!

[Wayne]

Hiya Wayne just a quick post

I'm planning doing my next one tonight as I'm taking a break from my Horror Season

So no need to watch alone

It is good to get feedback I know myself!

Okey Dokey.
Shame you're breaking your Horror season before watching 'The Ring', though. And 'The Gorgon', and....... etc... etc...

[Ralph]

"Tooth and Claw"

If it wasn't for the fact this is DW I'd never watch this again...I'm afraid I'm going to be brutally honest.

The opening scenes with the trendy matrix type stuff turns me off completely - it just seems so pretentious and just out of place.

As for the script in the early stages just appalling - piss poor in fact - Piper gets to speak some of the worst lines in the series ever - I'd rather watch an episode of "Rentaghost" because then I'd know I was watching kids TV proper.

As for the Scottish accents, more patronising than the original series ever mustered - it just turns me off completely.

OK nice CGI on the wolf - but special effects aint enough to keep me interested.

It strikes me watching this just how rushed it all feels to the type of entertainment I enjoy. It's just the TV equivalent of fast food but I'd prefer something properly cooked thanks...

The relentless music and pace seems to be forced to ensure the audience knows how to react kind of like canned laughter was used in the past.

As for talking about run arounds this is justy one long complete run around.

Do I have a good word to say about this episode...No

"Sir Doctor of TARDIS"..... Just when you thought it couldn't get more naff it does....

1/10

[Wayne]

Not a lot you can say to that!
I agree with you about the opening sequence, but aside from that..... Well it's all there in my review.......
Maybe you should quit while you're not ahead! If you hated 'Tooth & Claw' that much, i dread to think how much you'll dislike some of the others that are to come!

[Ralph]

Well I know you feel quite differently about it - It's funny how on the Hammer thread for example there can be so much mutual appreciation of those movies but here we appear poles apart.

It's not in my opinion about modern TV not suiting me either as I enjoyed the opening episode of "Life on Mars" which I watched yesterday.

I don't expect to find many if any on this board who'd agree with me on my views on this episode at this time but I'm curious to know how these episodes shape up on popularity in the years ahead....

[Wayne]

Well I know you feel quite differently about it - It's funny how on the Hammer thread for example there can be so much mutual appreciation of those movies but here we appear poles apart.

Well, i do try to be broad minded.

[Andy Frankham]

I quitely love 'The Idiot's Lantern' myself. Wasn't overly keen initially, but it's grown on me hugely. It's one of my faves of series two, battling for top spot with 'School Reunion' and 'The Satan Pit' (whole story, not just second episode).

[Andy Frankham]

On the topic of 'Tooth and Claw'. I'm with you both on the pretitles. It's terrible, and not clever at all. The Monks are totally ignored once they no longer have a use, which only adds to the crapness of the pretitles.

As for the rest of it. Hate the smugness of Rose and her total disrespect of Queen Victoria. I honestly have no idea why the Doctor goes along with it. He should know better!

Not a terrible story, but by no means is it ever gonna rank as one of the best of 21st Century Who. It has a lot of brilliant sparks, but ultimately fails on so many accounts. A pity.

[Andrew Curnow]

I liked it.

[Ralph]

I liked it.

For someone that doesn't like "Seeds of Doom" that makes sense to me.

[Wayne]

The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit

It's only my 2nd viewing of this one, & i had mixed feelings before starting it. On paper, this one should've pushed the right buttons for me, but upon transmission i was surprised to find it deadly boring. I'm hoping a 2nd viewing will fare better.......
It starts with a hint of mystery in the pre-credits bit, with ancient writing that the Tardis can't translate, & the mystery deepens when we are introduced to the crux of the story that caused such a furore on the old boards, Namely the whole Black Hole/Impossible Planet thing. Moving swiftly on then, because life's too short.......
There are further hints of foreboding early on when Toby is getting spooked out whilst he's on his own, & whilst the crew explain their mission to try & get to the power source, the myth of something being buried at the heart of this stellar phenomenon. All's well so far, but then comes a really, cringeworthy moment..... The Doctor's forced hug & humans beings speech, whilst Richard Clayderman tinkles in the background is one of the naffest things since the 'drunk' Doctor scene in 'The Girl in the Fireplace'. But luckily, the element of drama is restored when the Tardis is lost, & Toby seems to be the target for getting spooked out again, this time in a much more pronounced way!
I can remember now that on first my viewing, i'd recorded 'The Impossible Planet', & watched it the following week just before 'The Satan Pit' was broadcast, & all this was after i'd got back in from an afternoon gig where i'd had a few drinks, & i don't think i was really in the mood for watching....... I say this because as i get into the latter half of this episode on my 2nd viewing, it's clear that i missed a lot of things which initially went over my head. There's a palpable rise in the tension levels since Toby's strange encounter with 'The Beast' that's woken up; The strange message on Rose's phone, The Ood which to be being controlled, & then the great scene where the possessed Toby causes the glass to crack & break, bringing about the de-pressurization which results in the terrified Scooti's death! It's quite a poignant moment when the crew see her corpse floating towards the black hole......
As the tension builds further towards the conclusion of part one, The Doctor & Ida find a huge metal seal down in the depths, & meanwhile Toby becomes possessed by the beast again, & activates the Ood which are under the beast's control, & advance on the crew, as the seal down below opens.......
Well that definitely came over better for a 2nd viewing. It's actually pretty decent, & left me feeling a rather stonger anticipation for part 2 than upon first viewing!
The tension continues in part 2. Jefferson is about ready to dispense with Toby, but Rose is protective of him now that the beast appears to've left him, & i like the way she stands up to Jefferson. The Beast tries to taunt the crewmembers one by one, including Rose, whilst the Tennant's Doctor goes into one of his OTT 'humans' speeches. But after the Doctor is cut off from everyone else, it's Rose who becomes the one to motivate the crew not to give in, & Piper does it so much more convincingly than Tennant....... There are good scenes where Rose & co are being chased by the Ood, & Jefferson gets trapped. His death was handled very effectively, - Something else that has had more impact for me on this second viewing. Meanwhile, the Doctor goes down into the pit.......
There's another chance for Billie to shine as Rose refuses to accept that the Doctor could be dead, & fights as the Captain forces her to evacuate with the survivors; the scene culmimating in
Rose trying but failing to make them turn back, as the ship shoots away from the black hole. Meanwhile in the pit, the Doctor apparently encounters the Beast. Nice CGI! Ralph will love it. I found the whole scene with the Doctor talking to the Beast a bit of an anti-climax, to be honest, & ihave to say that i thought the way Tennant played it was... shall we say 'variable', to say the least. God, he's naffer than McCoy's naffest bits at times....... The action back on the ship was much more enjoyable. My favourite moment of the whole episode is Rose's 'Go To Hell' bit, where she shoots out the window to despatch the posssessed Toby into space. It reminds me again why i've always liked Rose so much; Because she's so plucky.
I did feel that the resolution to this story was a bit woolly, but on the whole, i got a lot more out of it this time around than i did on it's original transmission. I wouldn't say it's awesome, - There are still some bits that don't work too well for me, & unfortunately Tennant, who's been rising a bit in my estimation, drops back a bit in this one. But Rose/Billie has been on great form to make up for it, & the guest cast were largely good; especially the guy who played the Captain. So all in all, this story has gone up for me, from about a leaning to dull 4/10 to a pretty good 7/10.

[Milky Tears]

As for the Scottish accents, more patronising than the original series ever mustered - it just turns me off completely.

What's wrong with the Scottish accents? At least they were all real this time... apart from Rose's. Maybe you're just too used to hearing the Weegie nasal whine and can't stand listening to any other Scottish accents!

[Raston]

Maybe you're just too used to hearing the Weegie nasal whine and can't stand listening to any other Scottish accents!

Milky gets a point!

[Ralph]

As I haven't heard your accents I couldn't say - maybe just as well

School Reunion

It was worthwhile hanging in there for this one and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. The only part that grated on me we was Tennants opening performance in the classroom. After that it's pretty good going.

The return of Sarah Jane icon of the original series works very well indeed and the script's well written. The interplay between SJ and Rose works a treat and K9's return is good fun too.

This one made me smile and it was a touching ending too.

I'll give this one 7/10

[Wayne]

It took me ages to read all that!