Si Hunt Barks - "What's Wrong With Justice?"

[Zbigniev Hamson]

When I was in high school a student went out jumping his car on a hilly road, driving well over 100 mph and killed another high school student in a head on collision... He himself was in a coma for a long time and was only able to stand trial years later. He made a stupid mistake, but I don't think he should have to spend the rest of his life in prison for it.

Since when is stupidity any kind excuse? If I was stupid enough to not realise that hand grenades could kill people and decided to go and have a laugh throwing some around in a playground causing death and injury, should I be let off because I made a stupid mistake, even if I happened to also maim myself in the process?

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Also while I don't advocate the punishment fitting the wealth of the perpetrator, does it seem screwy to everyone else that the chap who ran her over's family are millionaires, yet the parents are still having to fund-raise to pay for the little girl's care?

Si.

I didn't see any mention of that in your quote, only that they'd been awarded £800,000 compensation.

Also, just because the perpetrator's PARENTS are millionaires doesn't mean they should be paying out for their son, particularly as he was well above the age of criminal responsibility at the time.

[Dirk Gently]

I didn't see any mention of that in your quote, only that they'd been awarded £800,000 compensation.

Check the petition website.

http://www.cerysedwards.co.uk/

[Si Hunt]

Latest evidence that the country is going to pot...

The government has given details its plans to release about 550 inmates in an effort to ease overcrowding.

The non-violent and non-sexual offenders will be automatically freed after half their sentences, instead of waiting until the two-thirds point.

Jails in England and Wales have been told to let out eligible offenders from 9 June and warned that failing to do so would amount to "unlawful detention".

The releases are due to happen over a 14-month period.
The government has given details its plans to release about 550 inmates in an effort to ease overcrowding.

The non-violent and non-sexual offenders will be automatically freed after half their sentences, instead of waiting until the two-thirds point.

Jails in England and Wales have been told to let out eligible offenders from 9 June and warned that failing to do so would amount to "unlawful detention".

The releases are due to happen over a 14-month period.

As if sentences for drink driving, burglury etc. arn't short enough, not you'll only have to serve HALF what you get given.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

This isn't just a mockery of justice. It's a full on Colin Mockery, Ryan Stiles, Tony Slattery, Greg Proops with Richard Vranch at the piano and me Clive Anderson saying goodnight, goodnight.

I'm not in favour of prison as a solution to criminal problems. How does it help a drug addict to lock them up with hundreds of drug dealers?

But the Government has no right to release prisoners for political reasons. This is why we need separate powers of government, the judiciary must be kept apart from political concerns. Otherwise people would call it being held at 'Gordon Brown's leisure' rather than 'Her Majesty's'.

[Si Hunt]

I'm not in favour of prison as a solution to criminal problems. How does it help a drug addict to lock them up with hundreds of drug dealers?

As an aside, I believe there are two answers to this:

(i) In theory, and partially in practise, being locked in a cell will stop them taking more drugs. It doesn't always work (for example, if you're a celebrity/pop star drug dealer and are therefore allowed some drugs) but then, making people have to take a test before driving doesn't always work, but it would be far worse if we just forgot the whole thing

(ii) It doesn't, but it takes them out of our society. Call me selfish, but I think the law should be there to help victims (and potential victims) as well as rehabiliate the criminals

Si.

[Larry]

As if sentences for drink driving, burglury etc. arn't short enough, not you'll only have to serve HALF what you get given.

Si.

it just staggering that the government are drawing up these plans and then you look at Ronnie Biggs, a frail old man who is very ill and a threat to no one yet the government refuse to release him so that he can go and die at home.

[Rob McCow]

There are those that would argue that Ronnie Biggs committed horrendous crimes and deserves to be punished by society.

[Captain Tancredi]

I think there's a point of pride with Biggs as well (apart from the fact that due to his escape he may not have served enough time to be considered for early release).

It's yet another of these no-win situations that afflict politics these days- build more prisons and it looks as if you're admitting defeat in the war on crime (not to mention the expense of building prisons up to modern European-dictated standards these days). Don't build them and you have to then face the possibility that there may come a point where criminals who face no immediate threat to society have to be released early so that society can be protected from those who are actively dangerous. Unfortunately if you're going to keep making more and more things illegal, unless you also have the ability to change human nature so that people no longer feel the need to fight, steal or wreck, you're going to create more criminals- and those with prison records who are effectively unemployable will simply go back to crime if the alternative is a life on the dole.

[Larry]

There are those that would argue that Ronnie Biggs committed horrendous crimes and deserves to be punished by society.

The Great Train Robbery was hardly a "horrendous crime" and may be if he was a fit and healthy man then perhaps it would be justified to serve some time in prison. But I'm talking about showing compasion for a dying man it's just seems wrong to keep him inside while a drunk who drives a car and kills a young child walking on a pavement gets a few months in prison and then let out.

[Dirk Gently]

I'm with Larry on that. I personally think they are being hard on Ronnie Biggs because he evaded capture for so long.

[SiHart]

And why shouldn't they? What makes him a special case?

Well actually since it was the biggest amount of money stolen in the UK at that time, yes it was a horrendous crime. Maybe no-one was killed, but it was still a huge crime. Whethter the criminals involved have been romanticised or not, they were still guilty and escaped custody for many years living of their illegally obtained proceeds. Why, just because they're old and ill should that mean they escape justice? A crime was committed and you shouldn't be allowed to get away with that because you're old and unwell. I sound mean, but after all the years he had enjoying life to the full in South America, what right does he have to be let off now?

Yes it's an unjust world where a drunken driver kills a child and gets let out of prison, but I don't see that leaving Ronnie Biggs to rot in jail will change that.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

I agree, the man's a criminal. I'm fed up of these men being portrayed somehow as "lovable rogues", "Gentleman villains" and the like. It's bad enough that he escaped punishment for his whole life, now he's not only slunk back to the UK so we can pay for his healthcare as he dies, but he doesn't want to pay for his crime either! No-one let Myra Hindley out when she was ill. But then, apparently now violent robbery isn't a "proper" crime.

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

Has anyone actually read what Ronnie Biggs actually did during the train robbery & what went on?
One person was pushed down an embankment, (wow, such harsh treatment) & one man was hit once, to render him unconcious. That's it, no shooters, nothing. I've heard of muggers doing worse & getting months in jail.

[Antony Cox]

one man was hit once, to render him unconcious.

Apparently he was hit over the head with an iron bar, and he never fully recovered from it.

[Si Hunt]

Gentlemanly villainy eh?

I can see where Tim's coming from, unfortunately it's too easy to fall into the "muggers get worse" trap. Jail sentences today are undoubtedly too lenient (today, a man got two years in prison for raping a small baby), but that's not good reason to make the harsher ones equally too lenient in comparison, IMO.

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

I'd rather an old man like Biggs was released early that the bastard who rapes babies you refer to in your post, Si.

To be honest I'd rather no criminal was released early but given there has to be a choice...

[Si Hunt]

be honest I'd rather no criminal was released early but given there has to be a choice...

But I think that's the point - it's not a choice. Someone else getting a too light sentence isn't justification for another person being let off. As Si said earlier, Biggs staying in prison won't address a different injustice.

Si.

[Larry]

this was in yesterdays Daily Mail -

k
Ian Huntley is receiving extraordinary preferential treatment in prison to 'keep his spirits up'.

The killer of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman has tried three times to kill himself and the authorities are keen to avoid another attempt.

Officers guarding him have been told by governor David Thompson to treat Huntley - and fellow inmates - as 'extensions of their family' and use their first names or address them as 'Mr'.

In addition, 33-year-old Huntley was given a series of privileges within weeks of arriving at Frankland Prison in County Durham - privileges which others would take months of good behaviour to earn.


Prisoner JG5778 has been given a private room within the health-care wing of the maximum-security jail.Rather than be forced to wear uniform, he and other inmates are allowed their own choice of designer clothes.

He has a constant two-man guard whenever he ventures out of his cell.
Those officers have been instructed to 'humour' him and to play games such as chess, darts and Scrabble with the former school caretaker who killed two tenyearold girls in Soham, Cambridgeshire.



Three meals a day, chosen by Huntley from an extensive menu, are delivered to the 12ft x 10ft room where the pressures of serving a life sentence are alleviated by his personal freeview TV, a Sony CD player, stereo and Nintendo games console. Inside the cell are photographs of his ex-lover Maxine Carr, with whom he is said to be 'obsessed'

I was lived with rage when I read this Huntley is f*****g vermin who has no right to any thing if I and the vast majority of people in this country had their way scum like him would of been executed for what he did.

It's yet another example of the authorities bending over backwards and caring more about the "human rights" of the criminals rather then the victims. Well what about the human rights of the parents of Holly and Jessica, the pain they have suffered pain that will never heal and then they read in the papers the nice cushy prison sentence Huntley is serving.

[Si Hunt]

I think if I knew what privelages he had, I would probably think it too luxurious for what he has done.

HOWEVER, I don't trust this newspaper report at all. The press have a long history of stirring up propaganda about notorious criminals every now and then, to keep them in the public eye and stop them sneaking out on early release - there used to be a big "outraged" story on Myra Hindley every few years, just to keep public passion alight with hatred for her. I approve of the outcome - if it keeps people like Huntley inside, that's fine with me. But I think the stories are unreliable, and I don't like being lied to in order to make me feel the way they want me to feel.

The tabloids couldn't tell the truth if they tried - you can bet certain things like the "designer clothes" line are untrue. And I'm sure he doesn't have an "extensive menu" either.

I dunno. I despise criminals of Huntleys ilk of course, but don't believe any of what you read anyway.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

Re: the Great Train Robbery discussion, I have only one thing to say:



Made for a blindin' film - Julie & Phil were awesome together.

[Larry]

Parents' anguish as killer cyclist walks away with just a fine -




The parents of a teenager killed by a speeding cyclist called for a change in the law after he walked away from court with just a £2,200 fine.
Jason Howard was convicted of dangerous cycling for killing Rhiannon Bennett as she walked to a shop with friends.

Howard, 36, sped towards Rhiannon at more than 23mph, shouting at her to get out of the way.
With no time to react, the 17-year-old horse management student was hit with the full force of the £4,750 custom-built bicycle, suffering fatal injuries as she hit her head on the pavement.

The maximum sentence the judge could have imposed yesterday was a fine of £2,500. But her parents, Mick and Diana Bennett, want the law changed so that dangerous cycling lines up with causing death by dangerous driving. The current maximum for this crime is a 14-year prison sentence.






Rhiannon Bennett pictured at the age of 15
Mr Bennett, 52, a roofer from Finmere in Buckinghamshire, said: 'If anything positive can come out of this awful situation, it would be a change in the law.

'This man has ruined our lives. He headed straight at our beautiful daughter and she stood no chance. He cut her down in the prime of her life and all he gets is a fine. We will still have the agony of watching him cycle around town on that flash bike of his.

'He should have got an eight to ten year prison sentence.'

Parents Diana and Michael Bennett now hope a change in the law will make a difference


Rhiannon was out buying chips with some friends when the accident happened

Mrs Bennett, 46, a home carer, added: 'Our life has been turned upside down and now it's a nightmare. My daughter was such a bright bubbly girl.'
The two-day trial at Aylesbury Crown Court heard that as Howard, a line painter from Buckingham, sped towards Rhiannon on a quiet road near his home in April last year he shouted: 'Move, because I'm not stopping.'
Howard admitted he could have avoided Rhiannon if he had slowed right down.

The carbon fibre titanium bicycle was built to Howard's specifications.
Despite its cost, the court heard it did not comply with the Highway Code because it had no reflectors on the pedals or on the back.
Howard, who has a previous conviction and is well-known in his home town as a 'thrill-seeker', was also ordered to pay £750 in costs.

I am sick and tired of cyclist abusing the high way code and arrogantly thinking they can do what the hell they like and break every rule of the road. The last paragrath in the article just sums up the kind of person this man is he rides his bike with a wreckless and contemptuous disregarde for the safety of pedestrians .

It's discussting that the courts think this young girls life is worth just £2000 - Howard should of been jailed for at least 10 years because he is evidently a danger to public safety.

[Dirk Gently]

I was willing to put this down to an accident or just a tragedy but this bit changed my mind...

he shouted: 'Move, because I'm not stopping.'

...what a complete w*nker!! I hope a car does the same to him & see how he likes it!

[Wayne]

Agreed Tim.

[Si Hunt]

Is this justice?

A Labour peer who was jailed for 12 weeks for sending and receiving text messages while driving on the M1 has been released by the Court of Appeal.

Lord Ahmed, 51, was involved in a fatal crash minutes after sending the messages on Christmas Day 2007.

He hit a stationary car in the outside lane of the motorway, killing Martyn Gombar, 28.

He was jailed after admitting dangerous driving last month. He has been freed after serving 15 days of his sentence.

Is 15 days now the cost of a mans life? Seems it is when you're a labour peer.

Si.