A Fistful of Westerns

[MacNimon]

Oops, 24 hours early...I'll probably have forgotten about it by tomorrow night!

[Wayne]

Tin Star (1957)

Thanks to Ralph, i hit the trail with 'Tin Star' this evening. The first i noiticed was the lack of gothic atmosphere, & i couldn't figure out who was supposed to be playing Dracula.





But seriously, i quite enjoyed it! There was probably a bit of a novelty factor in that, because aside from watching a western with my Dad a few weeks ago, it's not a genre i've generally bothered with much, so it felt like quite a nice change.
Ralph describes it as a competent routine western, & that's probably an accurate description in the big scheme of all the films to come, but it did have a few nice touches, & enjoyable performances.
The first character to make an impact was Bogardus, the loud mouth bad guy who's a coward at heart, as shown by him shooting an 'injun' in the back. I recognize the actor Neville Brand's face. He's probably one of those people i've seen in lots of things, but i thought he made a good 'bad guy', so to speak.
I like the way the film has a little nod towards recognizing prejudice. Bogardus has 'the only good injun is a dead injun' mentality, but the woman Nona, who Fonda's character Morg Hickman, stays with because no-one else will have him initially, was married to an indian & has what the locals call a 'half breed' boy, & they're both semi-shunned by most of the townfolk except the old Doctor. Of course Hickman being the good guy isn't bothered by this & decides to stay at her place even after the young Sheriff offers him place in the best hotel. Little touches like this make a difference to a film, giving the characters that little bit more depth. Similarly, Hickman has his own personal back-story that sheds a bit more light onto why his character is the way he is. What i liked about the film is that it doesn't make a big deal out of these things. They're touched on, & the viewer is left think whatever he wants to think. None of the issues are being shoved down your throat.
Although Fonda & Anthony Perkins as the young Sheriff Ben, are the main stars. I found myself noticing the support characters as well. Nona only has a small part but is well played by Betsy Palmer, with little touches of emotion in the right places, but never overplayed. John McIntire was entertaining as the pragmatic & positive, but slightly eccentric Dr McCord. Again, only a small part, but he made enough impact to feel sorry when the character was killed. And with familiar faces like Lee Van Cleef & Neville Brand thrown in, it all helped.
Fonda & Perkins were fine in their respective parts, but neither were they anything that special, IMO. Of course, i've seen Fonda in plenty of other films, so i'm well aware he's a good actor, but he's not the icon of westerns cinema that some others to come on this thread are.
The story itself wasn't rip-roaringly fast paced, but to be fair, i didn't find it slow either, & i enjoyed the climactic confrontation between Ben & Bogardus. I like the way Ben stood up to him right at the end, with subtle support from Hickman. I like the way Hickman's character was written so that he could build the naive young Sheriff up, & tried teach him a bit of basic psychology in how to sum up men & situations, & showing Ben about guaging the 'pack mentality', & taking down the ringleader, rather than steaming to do the job for him. And in the end, Bogardus paid for his below the belt approach.
All in all, i thought it was a reasonably good start. No classic, but certainly no clunker, & perhaps just a tad more than 'routine'? I was almost swayed to go with 6.5/10, but ultimately, i'd agree with Ralph score of 6/10 for this one.
Thanks for an enjoyable start pardner!

[Ralph]

Fonda & Perkins were fine in their respective parts, but neither were they anything that special, IMO.

I think I expected a bit more from Henry Fonda as I tend to look out for his films and I just thought he gave a competent but not sparkling performance but I think that was maybe to do more with the overall feel of the film.

Of course, i've seen Fonda in plenty of other films, so i'm well aware he's a good actor, but he's not the icon of westerns cinema that some others to come on this thread are.

Well I don't think I'd write off Fonda as an icon of Westerns just yet IMO of course He certainly sparkles in my view in one of the movies to come and it's one of the most popular westerns ever... I'm keen to see how he does in Warlock, there's some more good actors playing key parts in the mix too.

The story itself wasn't rip-roaringly fast paced, but to be fair, i didn't find it slow either

It's funny I really don't mind the pace at all - I'm not sure why - I find movies with slower pacing can make for more leisurely viewing where you can get cosily tucked into the escapism of a movie Similarly as you say it does get the balance about right so never slows up too much.

All in all, i thought it was a reasonably good start. No classic, but certainly no clunker, & perhaps just a tad more than 'routine'? I was almost swayed to go with 6.5/10, but ultimately, i'd agree with Ralph score of 6/10 for this one.
Thanks for an enjoyable start pardner!

Yeah it probably is more than routine - I guess puting it up first I was hoping you wouldn't be disappointed and find it too tame! It's difficult starting off because there's no yardstick so as time goes on and comparisons are made I think my scoring will get fairer!

Certainly I always enjoy a Fonda movie

I'd be happy to stay on the 50s movie trail for the mo pardner and go next for "The Searchers".

Just some other thoughts, I'd totally agree it's good to change genre now and again - and your reviews as ever Wayne are so comprehensive! And with no spaces!

[Wayne]

Well I don't think I'd write off Fonda as an icon of Westerns just yet IMO of course He certainly sparkles in my view in one of the movies to come and it's one of the most popular westerns ever... I'm keen to see how he does in Warlock, there's some more good actors playing key parts in the mix too.

I wasn't writing him off as such, i was leaning towards the fact that he's not generally remembered just for Westerns. He's done a lot of different stuff. John Wayne did a few war films & cop films, but he will always be remembered chiefly for his Westerns.
Similarly, Clint more successfully managed to break out of just being remembered for his Westerns, especially with the Dirty Harry movies, But he will still always indelibly associated with Westerns in a way that Fonda is not.

And with no spaces!

Still written in paragraphs though. There's enough of a space that way.

I hope the Postman brings you 'The Searchers' (& the rest) soon!

[Ralph]

If that postie doesn't get them here soon there'll be a lynching

[Wayne]

I can't remember much about 'The Searchers', but Star Trek's original Captain is the co-star.

[Wayne]

Btw.... If anyone wants to join in on this thread, i'd be happy to pass on my copies of any films that i decide i'm not going to keep. So 'Tin Star' is up for grabs if anyone wants it.
Not that it's a bad film, but i can't see me wanting to repeat view it, really. Although enjoyable, the Western genre is not a big thing for me like say Horror movies are, so only real favourites that i'm likely to watch again at some point will make it onto my shelves.
That said, I'd also be happy to 'loan' my Dad's John Wayne films to anyone that's interested in taking part.

[Ralph]

If I can help in the lending process let me know!

I'm sure there must be a good home for "Tin Star" somewhere

[Wayne]

The trail's going cold. When's the next one?

[Ralph]

Well I reckon "The Searchers" or "Warlock" - By chronological order Searcher's wins it so I think there should be the first Wayne outing pretty soon!

[Wayne]

I've already watched both of those, but i'll let the thread leader blaze the trail.
All i'll say is that it's 1 nil to Fonda so far.

[Ralph]

OK as we're buring daylight (if it was indeed sunrise) then I better start mosying down the trail!

[Ralph]

Warlock (1959)

While "The Searchers" is made 3 years earlier I just fancied watching this one first naturally for the Fonda factor.

Plot:

“The town of Warlock is plagued by a gang of thugs, leading the inhabitants to hire Clay Blaisdell (Henry Fonda), a famous gunman, to act as marshal. When Blaisdell appears, he is accompanied by his friend Tom Morgan (Anthony Quinn), a club-footed gambler who is unusually protective of Blaisdell's life and reputation. However, various townspeople, concerned by the illegality of Blaisdell's position, induce Johnny Gannon (Richard Widmark), one of the thugs who has reformed, to accept the post of official sheriff in rivalry to Blaisdell; and a woman arrives in town accusing Blaisdell and Morgan of having murdered her fiance. The stage is set for a complex set of moral and personal conflicts.”


I enjoyed this one more than Tin Star, it has no less than 3 major Hollywood stars of the era and is in colour too which in the outdoor settings I think always looks far better than black and white. I’m pretty sure a lot of this was probably filmed in Monument Valley, which I visited in August and scenes where Fonda’s doing some practice shooting look like the Grand Canyon in the backdrop so great scenery! It feels like a bigger budget was spent here and I think the money is well used.

Henry Fonda plays his role very convincingly and looks the part, well dressed and cool and collected – classic Fonda in fact! This is a $400 dollars a month Gunman! Your typical deputy is just 10% of that! Anthony Quinn and Richard Widmark give excellent supporting performances. Then there’s the added bonus of DeForest Kelley who should similarly need no introductions here. I vaguely remember watching this movie years ago on TV and it was made all the more memorable for me as a Star Trek fan .

For me what makes this a good Western is that the characters are well fleshed out and you really care what happens to them.

The movie starts off showing what happens to the previous deputies who are either killed or humiliated out of town so the townspeople have to hire in a top notch gunman to restore order as the Deputies simply can’t cut it. So enters Fonda’s character who takes no pleasure in killing but treats it as his vocation in life and one where he clearly enjoys the kudos. The sequences feel very realistic and not overblown in his first handling of bringing order to the town. The script running alongside the action is well written and the Western comes across as an intelligent one addressing the real issues such a town would have faced in the real West.

As with most Westerns of this era there is always the romantic element on the sidelines. It develops the character’s more but inevitably slows up the action a bit however it’s not something I mind.

What I like about the characterisations is that everyone is flawed – there is no one who really comes out of this as all good. Fonda has turned a blind eye to Quinn’s interventions and finally must address this. Quinn is a man who standing alongside Fonda feels a more valued human being, more than a cripple but who is playing heavily on his relationship with Fonda. Meantime Widmark’s character is an outlaw turned deputy and finally Kelley’s character has shades of grey, multi dimensional.

On the music side again nothing special is just pretty standard fayre – I think a better score would have made the movie feel more special, as it is it neither adds anything not takes away.

I liked the ending which I feel fitted the whole feel of the movie.

I think like Tin Star it’s a thinking Western where cares been taken with the script but this is quite clearly a grade above Tin Star.

I’d give this 7/10 however at the end once I rank all the movies I may adjust accordingly.

[Wayne]

Good review there Ralph.
Whilst to all intents & purposes this was a better film than 'Tin Star', certainly as you say the characters are more well developed & so more interesting, i did actually find myself struggling with the length of the film at over 2hrs long, & in that sense i found 'Tin Star' better paced.
I honestly think that with maybe 20mins or more trimmed away, that this would've been a tighter paced movie, & there were quite a few scenes that could've been shortened as they'd already made their point, but still continued on, & for me it made the movie as a whole feel a little bit slow, particularly in the latter half.
However on the plus side, the characters are stronger & a lot more memorable, so it wins out on 'Tin Star' for that. I enjoyed Fonda's performance a even more this time, but i wasn't so fussed about Richard Widmark. He was ok, but a bit stilted i thought, considering his character had quite a strong emotional stake in the film. DeForest Kelley meanwhile, it was a pleasure to see, because i always enjoy his performances, & i think he was good playing that rather sarcastic character that he played.
Overall a good film, but could've been a bit punchier with better editing. 6.5/10

[Ralph]

I'd agree it could have been faster paced I was thinking that a bit when I mentioned the romantic element. If they had edited out the 20 mins padding I would have given it another half mark. I enjoyed DeForest Kelley's performance too, he was given more script than I previously recollected.

I just watched "The Searchers" so I'll post my thoughts shortly but I will say it made Warlock feel more pacey

[Wayne]

I just watched "The Searchers" so I'll post my thoughts shortly but I will say it made Warlock feel more pacey

Unfortunately i agree. For the first of the John Wayne movies i was a bit disappointed with it. But more later.

[Ralph]

The Searchers (1956)

Plot:
“Ethan Edwards (John Wayne), returned from the Civil War to the Texas ranch of his brother, hopes to find a home with his family. But a Comanche raid destroys these plans, and Ethan sets out, along with his 1/8 Indian nephew Martin (Jeffrey Hunter), on a years-long journey to find the niece (Natalie Wood) kidnapped by the Indians under Chief Scar. But as the quest goes on, Martin begins to realize that his uncle's hatred for the Indians is beginning to spill over onto his now-assimilated niece. Martin becomes uncertain whether Ethan plans to rescue Debbie...or kill her."

Well I was aware this was regarded as a classic and I was looking forward to a John Wayne western but I don’t think this film really justifies the high status. While it’s the same length as Warlock, it feels twice as long. The characters aren’t as strong as in the last movie and it therefore felt a bit more lightweight.

I was never a great fan of the cowboys versus the “injuns” movies – I usually find them a bit duller, many Westerns don’t fit this category like the first two movies on this thread which are about gunfighters, my personal preference.

The search feels like a long one and I could feel the world weariness as they continue on season after season, letters written home…I wasn’t surprised John Wayne was going grey! and it all feels much more old fashioned in it’s values than the likes of Warlock made 3 years later.

I thought the music might be more effective here but while it has a more famous soundtrack it doesn’t seem to have much impact in the film.

Jeffery Hunter (or Captain Pike in certain circles ) was OK but nothing special – I think he was in the story to add humouress elements rather than anything else – someone for Wayne to fire some witicisms at. The storyline seems padded with the squaw “wife” and the girlfriend Hunter’s character leaves behind. The story also includes a couple of numpty characters who again are presumably there for entertainment value but it didn’t work for me – that is the guy whose life is complete with the rocking chair and that country bumpkin who tries to steal the girl.

I recognised the scenery again as Monument Valley and to be honest at many occasions I was much more interested in spotting the landmarks than watching the film itself…..

I must say for a John Wayne movie which are usually entertaining his performance here comes across as a bit flat – John Wayne might have said in reaction “that’ll be the day” (his favorite expression in the movie) but it was here!

I know I’m going to recognise good Wayne movies shortly so regretfully I must downgrade this one from presumed classic to 5/10.

[Wayne]

The Searchers (1956)

Well I was aware this was regarded as a classic and I was looking forward to a John Wayne western but I don’t think this film really justifies the high status. While it’s the same length as Warlock, it feels twice as long. The characters aren’t as strong as in the last movie and it therefore felt a bit more lightweight.

The search feels like a long one and I could feel the world weariness as they continue on season after season, letters written home…I wasn’t surprised John Wayne was going grey! and it all feels much more old fashioned in it’s values than the likes of Warlock made 3 years later.

Jeffery Hunter (or Captain Pike in certain circles ) was OK but nothing special

I recognised the scenery again as Monument Valley and to be honest at many occasions I was much more interested in spotting the landmarks than watching the film itself…..

I must say for a John Wayne movie which are usually entertaining his performance here comes across as a bit flat – John Wayne might have said in reaction “that’ll be the day” (his favorite expression in the movie) but it was here!

I know I’m going to recognise good Wayne movies shortly so regretfully I must downgrade this one from presumed classic to 5/10.

You've said it all for me with these points. I was disappointed with this one. I thought it was downright boring for about half of it, & John Wayne wasn't that great at all compared to some films i know quite well of his. Even if they'd trimmed it down to 1hr 30, it still wouldn't have been that great a film. A dull start for John Wayne. 4/10.

[Ralph]

Yes I think 5 was generous, I suspect your scoring is spot on

Rio Bravo is up next - I'm sure this is a good one...

[Ralph]

Rio Bravo (1959)

Plot:
“The sheriff of a small town in southwest Texas must keep custody of a murderer whose brother, a powerful rancher, is trying to help him escape. After a friend is killed trying to muster support for him, he and his deputies - a disgraced drunk and a cantankerous old cripple - must find a way to hold out against the rancher's hired guns until the marshal arrives.”

So first review of 2008!

I enjoyed this one for the performances but it’s very different in style to my favourite so far, “Warlock” which has become a bit of a benchmark for me. This doesn’t quite feel to me like a slice of the how the West might have been but more a vehicle for the actors. That said it does work well for as long as you like the actors you will enjoy much of the film. While in “Warlock” there is a real feeling of perceived danger and Fonda while giving a great performance of being in control also shows subtle elements of vulnerability, for example the way he takes a drink after a confrontation indicating an element of stress. Wayne might take a drink after a shoot out but it’s always just lifestyle and you never get that feeling that he was under pressure. I reckon Fonda earned his money harder than Wayne.

The film is a slower pace and this allows a lot of character development, there’s certainly as much time spent here as in Warlock in creating characters you really care about but while Warlock is dark and moody this is often light entertainment on a Western format.

Possibly for me the star of the movie is Walter Brennan whose “Stumpy” character while possibly an OTT performance I nevertheless found very entertaining. Dean Martin does a good job as a man finding his self respect again after years on the bottle – I guess it’s the best straight acting performance of the film. John Wayne plays himself as Roger Moore does his own thing. I would be a hypocrite therefore if I knocked Wayne for this as when you have such a charismatic personality that has huge appeal for the audience then why not? You can’t help but admire Wayne’s presence in a film like this – it was made for him and the chemistry with Martin & Brennan works exceedingly well.

Warlock had slow elements and this has it’s share too – much of it for the same reason building further character development plus the romantic interest for Wayne. Angie Dickinson who plays the love interest is certainly stunning and while she adds fabulous eye candy I’m not convinced she adds much else. Similarly Rickie Nelson a teenage heart throb apparently of the era was chosen to be included for this reason only to get bums on seats – he adds little else to the movie.

On the music side I liked the Mexican music running through many parts of the movie – it gives it touches of the classic Morricone scores that were to hit the scene some 5 years later. Therefore I rate this the best of the soundtracks so far. Something else which touched upon an aspect I admire in the Spaghetti westerns is the lack of dialogue in the first 4 minutes or so of the film.

It’s very much an under siege movie based around the Sherriff’s office and jail, it never moves far from that and therefore isn’t a scenic movie but it wasn’t a downside for me as a like this type of film. Clearly Wayne and director Howard Hawks loved the format as we shall see again in Eldorado and Rio Lobo which I recall enjoying also.

Apparently also Hawks and Wayne wanted to make this as their answer to High Noon where they clearly disapproved of the Sherriff being portayed as a weak figure who must seek help from the town’s people.

So a good John Wayne movie to see him do his usual thing with great supporting performances but you have to appreciate the slower pacing and think more of entertainment rather than a slice of the real West. My score then 6.5

Next up will be "The Alamo" and a DVD that just arrived yesterday "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" where another western icon James Stewart makes his first appearance in this thread as well as Lee Marvin. I'll lend you my copy shortly Wayne

[Wayne]

John Wayne plays himself as Roger Moore does his own thing.

Another good review Ralph. I've not watched this one yet, but i think the Wayne/Moore comparison is valid. John Wayne could only really do one thing. Neither are what i call good actors. If just depends if you like what they do.
I don't recall if i've ever seen this film, but i'll give it a try tomorrow night. Maybe even tonight, but i'm a bit knackered so even if i do, i probably won't write it up until tomorrow.

[Ralph]

Well I reckon you'll enjoy it best if you allow for the slower pacing and it does run for 140 minutes.

I'm anticipating "The Alamo" won't be as much fun as I don't remember it as a favourite still I'll keep an open mind. Another Western for the thread which I quite fancy adding is 1966 Western "A Big Hand for the little Lady" where Fonda plays a gambler who gets out his depth. It's only on NTSC format at the moment but I might try and get a copy.

[Wayne]

A mate of mine was recommending 'Once Upon on a Time in the West'. I know it's already on the list, but i've never seen it as i recall. My Dad has it as well though.

[Ralph]

I'm really curious to see what you'll think of the style of it - it makes an artform out of the pacing perhaps more than any other of the Spaghetti's Plus if you liked Fonda's performance in Warlock then I'm sure you'll enjoy him in his this one even more!

Another good one with Fonda and Kirk Douglas is "There Was A Crooked Man" , I remember it was the the movie shown as a tribute on TV the day he died. Don't ask why but I just remember these things and was sad at the time to hear of his death as I similarly felt about John Wayne. This one hasn't been released on Region 2 yet.

My most famous recollection of a Wayne movie was in 1980 which I think was "The Horsesoldier's" was that it was interuppted by live BBC coverage of the Iranian Embassy seige - many members of the public jammed the swichboards at the BBC at the time to complain bitterly at the interruption of The John Wayne movie

[Ralph]

Henry Fonda get's the award for best dressed gunslinger so far