Alert! Si Hart has watched the Dominators and more!

[Simon R]

I've never got why this story has had such bad press from the Sis. It's far better than "The Krotons" for example.

It could do with an episode cutting off but it's quite a jolly run around quite a high budget.

I don't suppose I've seen it in 6 years at least now.

[Si Hunt]

Heretic!

Si.

[Rob McCow]

To continue with the running theme, I'm about to watch my last ever 'classic' Doctor Who story that I need to see* Delta and the Bannermen.

I watched episode 1 on first broadcast in 1987, so it's been 20 years and two months. How the hell does he get out of that laundry room with the guy with the gun? What is that green thing that Mel is screaming at? Will episode 1 be anything like I remember it?!


*of the ones that still exist in the BBC Archives of 2008.

[Rob McCow]

Er... episode 1 then... it was quite good. The battle sequence at the start was great, even if it was a war between seven people. The visual effects of the spaceships taking off and landing were impressive too.

And then the Doctor and Mel land outside a gay disco and are met by Ken Dodd. From then on it's 'what the heck' all the way! The Navarino transformation is soooo Tomorrow People it hurts, Ray's dialogue is even worse than everybody elses and it's just so weird.

The Doctor is totally blase about causing an anachronism, from getting Billy to look under the bonnet of the spaceship to blithely talking about Quark Crystals. That was unnecessary, why not just say 'The bus will take 24 hours to fix?' However, the bit where he looks down the open flap of Ray's handbag and says 'Do you always carry lots of tools about with you?' made me shriek with laughter. So rude, Mr.McCoy!

There's some good stuff in the first episode, but it's so damn extreme. No other program has ever looked like this or sounded like this. No other program would have Ken Dodd brutally gunned down by a gang of bikers in an alien toll port. It's... weird.

[FlyingBeastie]

I liked Delta and the Bannermen actually. In fact, VOTD has sort of the same premise (Alien Cruise to Earth)

[Rob McCow]

Episode 2 and the bus has been blown up with 50 or so aliens on it. And the music is still really jolly! Are we not supposed to care about the Navarinos anyway?

Other highlights include McCoy jumping off a bike, running three yards and being too out of breath to deliver his line properly - McCoy climbing a stair case and speaking too fast to deliver his line properly - and the implied love interest between Ray and the Doctor continues unabated. They spent the night together in the laundry shed after Mr.Sideburns got blown up by his walkie talkie. Then McCoy is very enthusiastic in the way he jumps on Ray's back... er ... I mean Ray's bike.

It annoyed me when Ray said 'this is the end of the road' and it was blatantly just a gate in the middle of the road, with the road continuing after it. The chase music used was the Devil's Galop, which is now forever associated with the Adventures of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar from That Mitchell and Webb Look. So it sounds like the Doctor has escaped with the stolen cigarettes and is making his way to the arcade to search for dropped pennies.

What the hell was up with that baby with the green face?!?!?

Mel's outfit is really good though and it's not actually a bad episode. If they'd sorted out the tone properly it might have been good.

[Rob McCow]

In fact, VOTD has sort of the same premise (Alien Cruise to Earth)

And Keff McCullogh and Murray Gold both appear on screen in a band!

[Rob McCow]

Er... well, actually it was pretty awful.

There's the cone thing on top of the TARDIS, which is quite a good idea to have one of the Doctor's enemies booby trap his ship. But the Doctor spots it so easily and then it just defuses itself when the threat is over. Ray is actually worse than Sophie Aldred. There's a big long pause at the end where the Doctor is thinking of taking her with him which is quite worrying.

The Bannermen look really good and the little battle where Delta blasts one of the Bannermen is good too. There's nothing wrong with the premise paticularly and it could have worked.

So I'm going to say the main problems are:
1) Keff McCulloch, who's music was alright at first but the 50's pastiche becomes rapidly sickening and out of place with what's going on.
2) Sylvester McCoy is utterly incomprehensible throughout.
3) I didn't like Billy's sub-plot where he decides it's a good idea to eat the alien green goo. Nutter!

[Rob McCow]

I've watched all of 'old/classic' Doctor Who now. Hmm.

[Andrew Curnow]

The last (existing) original series story I've got to watch is "Underworld". Hmm.

[Simon R]

I've still not got around to watching the two episodes of "The Faceless Ones" and there's a handful of missing ones I've not listened too.

[SiHart]

People always sace the best until last. Mine was Invisible Enemy.

Si xx

[Pip Madeley]

Mine was 'Day of Armageddon' (DMP2) back in early 2004, probably the same for a few others. Before that it was 'The Lion' in 1999. Thanks to UKGold & a fan who kindly sent me all those rare episodes (from nth generation VHS), I got through the back catalogue of Who episodes quite quickly.

[Si Hunt]

The Doctor is totally blase about causing an anachronism, from getting Billy to look under the bonnet of the spaceship to blithely talking about Quark Crystals. That was unnecessary, why not just say 'The bus will take 24 hours to fix?'

I can't help but feel a point has been missed somewhere! There's a theme running through the whole story about these apparently primitive people from 1950's Wales who are actually open-minded enough to take everything from the Navarino's to the marauding Bannermen in their stride, and that trust is what enables them all to club together and win. Burton is flabbergasted into evacuating the camp once quickly shown the TARDIS (something so lovely because it's so rarely shown) and the Doctor trusts Garonwry with the alien princess because he's wise enough to take everything on trust. I think it makes it all rather special.

I agree about the misfire by killing off all the holidaymakers though; it's the one point where the story completely misses it's own tone.

Si.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I still have "The Monster of Peladon", "The Androids of Tara" and "The Stones of Blood" to see.

[Rob McCow]

"The Androids of Tara" and "The Stones of Blood" to see.

And yet you've sat through Kroll and the Armageddon Factor?!?!! Those two are far better!

In Bannermen, if it had all got serious and nasty after they blew up the bus then it would have been great. But because it's 'light entertainment' then they didn't.

Nice to see JNT's dog as well!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

And yet you've sat through Kroll and the Armageddon Factor?!?!! Those two are far better!

Well it was more to do with what I had on tape than a judgement of quality

[Pip Madeley]

I agree about the misfire by killing off all the holidaymakers though; it's the one point where the story completely misses it's own tone.

Same goes for the death of the Toll Keeper - just malicious and inappropriate.

Please enjoy this guide to "Delta" Plot Holes:

• Why does Gavrok want Delta and the Chimeron race dead?
• Why is the Doctor so unconcerned by the effects all this could have to the timeline? And why doesn't he react or care about the dead Navarinos?
• Does the Doctor really think he can walk away from a gang of armed Bannermen? And why does Gavrok let him go?
• Exactly how does the baby grow up so fast? And how the hell do the clothes manage to grow with her?
• The Doctor says the explosion of the sonic cone will destroy everyone, so why doesn't it?
• How does the Police Box in the woods work without any wires? And how does Stubby Kaye get put through to the Whitehouse so fast?
• Where does Billy get his white outfit? Same goes for the girl.
• Why isn't Billy poisoned by the alien food?
• Mel walks off the spacebus with a suitcase of clothes... how? She never went into the TARDIS for them and she never had it when she got on the bus...
• Mel lends her dress to Delta. How on Earth does it fit her?
• Why doesn't Gavrok use his ship to track down Delta? He obviously doesn't care if anyone sees it...
• Why do the Doctor, Mel and Burton stop in their tracks at the end of episode two, just before they hear the cocking of guns? Okay, that's down to crap editing.

I prefer to watch "Holiday On The Buses".

[WhiteCrow]

You know this thread makes me think about seeing if I still have Tomb of the Cybermen on video.

To my shame I nearly wet myself when it was discovered. I'd listened relentlessly to the audio versions, and is probably the first Doctor Who I rushed to the shops to get on the first day (I'd usually just tape stories off UK Gold). It didn't quite reach the bar my imagination had set. Still very good though.

[Andrew Curnow]

I don't want to get a reputation as the patron saint of lost causes, but I think at least SOME of Pip's 'plot holes' are just being REALLY picky, rather than actual errors.

Why does Gavrok want Delta and the Chimeron race dead?
Maybe he's into genocide and ethnic cleansing? It has been known...

Why is the Doctor so unconcerned by the effects all this could have to the timeline?
Not sure what that means, you could ask the same of any story set in 'the past'. Why does he let Ace even take her boombox out into the streets of 1963? Why does he let Leela kill a Chinese man in Victorian London? Etc etc etc.

And why doesn't he react or care about the dead Navarinos?
Some kind of reaction would have been good, agreed (although we do get one from Mel).

Does the Doctor really think he can walk away from a gang of armed Bannermen?
Apparently so. And to be fair, he does!
And why does Gavrok let him go?
Because he wants to track him to reveal where he has hidden the last of the Chimersons. And, he does!!

Exactly how does the baby grow up so fast?
Presumably that's how it is with Chimerons. Similarly, Alzarians heal quickly, and Timelords regenerate.

And how the hell do the clothes manage to grow with her?
Perhaps she gets her clothes from the same shop as the fourth Doctor gets his magical regenerating boots?

The Doctor says the explosion of the sonic cone will destroy everyone, so why doesn't it?
Agreed, bit dodgy although there is a line in there to try and cover this, when he says "Gavrok absorbed all the energy".

How does the Police Box in the woods work without any wires?
Maybe I'm a bit dim, but did police boxes usually have wires? The one on the Barnet Bypass doesn't (assuming that Logopolis got that right).
And how does Stubby Kaye get put through to the Whitehouse so fast?
How does Commissioner Gordon get through to Batman so fast? Or, how does the Doctor get through to Buckingham Palace so quickly? Presumably if you have the right number/code/clearance there are ways and means.

Where does Billy get his white outfit? Same goes for the girl.
Well the girl's seems to have grown with her (you've already moaned about her clothes, Madeley, you can't have that one twice). Unless you mean Delta, in which case she presumably bought an outfit with her. Maybe she bought a few, and one size fits all.

Why isn't Billy poisoned by the alien food?
Luck? Although, more sensibly, I wouldn't actually be poisoned if I ate dog food.

Mel walks off the spacebus with a suitcase of clothes... how? She never went into the TARDIS for them and she never had it when she got on the bus...
It's too long since I've watched it for me to comment on that. Although just because we never saw her go into the TARDIS for them doesn't mean she didn't - there's various times where she could have done.

Mel lends her dress to Delta. How on Earth does it fit her?
Now you really are being a picky Pippy! How does Troughton's suit fit Pertwee in Spearhead? How (dear God, how) does Davison's suit fit Colin in Twin Dilemma?

Why doesn't Gavrok use his ship to track down Delta? He obviously doesn't care if anyone sees it...
Don't understand that one? He does use his ship doesn't he, once he has the signal?

Why do the Doctor, Mel and Burton stop in their tracks at the end of episode two, just before they hear the cocking of guns? Okay, that's down to crap editing.
Indeed - or it could be the same Who-y precognisance that leads Jo Grant to scream and point seconds before a Drashig appears.

[Pip Madeley]

Why doesn't Gavrok use his ship to track down Delta? He obviously doesn't care if anyone sees it...

I didn't put that too well, I mean why didn't the Bannermen follow Delta and her gang in the ship, rather than walking... would've been faster and easier.

I know it was mostly picky, but it was worth posting to read your reply, Andrew.

[Jonno]

Delta's a funny one for me. I don't mind admitting I pretty much detested it 20 years ago, but with more recent viewings within the last 10 years or so, I have revised my opinion for the better. It's quite a fun romp really with some unusually dark moments, as discussed on here. It certainly is an oddball, but my favourite McCoy oddball!

[WhiteCrow]

I've never rewatched a McCoy-Langford story, ain't no crazy fool gonna talk me into it either.

[Simon R]

I think "Delta" is a classic. I loved it then and I love it now. There's a few flaws but few "Who's" are perfect. There's so many other things to enjoy in it. I wish we saw a bit more of the holiday camp though. A scene with Mel and the Doctor splashing around the olympic sized swimming pool would have been fun.

A welsh set, 1950s, romantic romp like this is the sort of thing they'd do in the new series.

[Logo Polish]

And why doesn't he react or care about the dead Navarinos?
Some kind of reaction would have been good, agreed (although we do get one from Mel).

He seems angry enough when confronting Gavrok afterwards too, telling him that he'll be brought to account for his attempted genocide, so I'd have thought that could count.