Mind of Evil in colour?

[SiHart]

Well, it's looking possible technically from the B&W prints according to technical bod James Insall: (from the Rt forum...)

I thought I'd give you a quick update on the recent progress made by the colour-recovery working group (or more especially an update on the work that Andrew Browne has conducted for the group).

Andrew has managed to overcome the stumbling block of having no colour sub-carrier reference phase or v-switch information for decoding the PAL signal. He has used a localised decoding approach (that I also favoured), which does not require the reconstitution of original scan lines.

Reasonable YC separation (using essentially a comb filter), and what seems to be the beginnings of a very effective decoding approach, has been achieved.

The full details, and an example image, can be seen on the wiki http://colour-recovery.wikispaces.com , (Current Work).

Hopefully we will be able to find a way to take the work forward to a conclusion. If we can, then there is no reason why Mind of Evil et al can't be decoded and viewed in colour for the first time since the 1970's.

I think we all need to congratulate Andrew on the progress made so far, and give him all the encouragement we can in progressing his work.

Exciting, eh?

Si xx

[Pip Madeley]

Technically possible, but I think it's a long way off and looking at the example of Jimmy Saville it's not perfect. But good luck to them!

[Jon Masters]

Can somebody explain it in words that the Cat would understand, please ?

[SiHart]

Well sort of... in the BW telerecordings there's apparently a colour element still stored on the film somehow. They're working on a way to access that colour element and make use of it.
I think.

On the other hand it might be magic.

Si xx

[Perry Vale]

Ah, so this is where I should have looked/posted!

[Stuart Wallis]

Well sort of... in the BW telerecordings there's apparently a colour element still stored on the film somehow. They're working on a way to access that colour element and make use of it.
I think.

On the other hand it might be magic.

Si xx

'Tis sorcery Oi tell 'ee! It must be, I don't understand a word of the technical gubbins either.

How Si explains it is much the same as the explanation as the one given in a featurette on one of the Goodies DVDs. There's a way of using a bit of techno alchemy to draw out the colour left in the b&w picture and extrapolate the original colours from that. I presume that technology's moved on since whoever-it-was worked on the Goodies, and found a more accurate way of doing it.

[Si Hunt]

I'd love to be optimistic but I just can't see it. Some of the episodes that have an actual colour off-air recording look on the fringes of watchability, so I don't know what the quality would be like with traces of colour extracted from within a black and white print. I think what this may do, if they're lucky, is to give them tiny 'colour references' to work from if they could ever afford to recolour "Mind of Evil" from scratch.

I really hope they fork out to do that one day regardless - my heart will break the day they announce that a Pertwee episode is coming out on DVD in black and white.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

my heart will break the day they announce that a Pertwee episode is coming out on DVD in black and white.

Hmm - My heart will go on.

I think Mind of Evil looks fab in B&W anyway. All the photos from the story show that the prison walls are a vile yellow-green colour, plus everyone is wearing bright reds and browns that are bound to bleed all over the shop.

Interesting idea though!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

'Tis sorcery Oi tell 'ee! It must be, I don't understand a word of the technical gubbins either.

How Si explains it is much the same as the explanation as the one given in a featurette on one of the Goodies DVDs. There's a way of using a bit of techno alchemy to draw out the colour left in the b&w picture and extrapolate the original colours from that. I presume that technology's moved on since whoever-it-was worked on the Goodies, and found a more accurate way of doing it.

Surely it must be from some poor off-air recording or something? How on Earth can colour information be stored in black and white film?!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Ah I see. The moral of this story is click the "more information here" links and actually read them.

[Stuart Wallis]

Pay attention 007.

[MacNimon]

Too bad that it's only those b&w telerecordings that they can apparently try this with. Wouldn't it be something if they could generate the original colours from 'real' b&w episodes from the 60s?

[Zbigniev Hamson]

That really would be magic.

[Stuart Wallis]

I bet Ian Levine's got a man who can do just that!

[Dave Tudor]

I'd much rather see 'The Mind Of Evil' released in black-and-white, possibly VidFIREd, than see it artificially recoloured and probably looking rather washed-out. After all, many people would have seen the original in monochrome, so a B/W release would be almost as authentic as a full-colour 625-line version!

[Pip Madeley]

I think Mind of Evil looks fab in B&W anyway. All the photos from the story show that the prison walls are a vile yellow-green colour, plus everyone is wearing bright reds and browns that are bound to bleed all over the shop.

I'd much rather see 'The Mind Of Evil' released in black-and-white, possibly VidFIREd, than see it artificially recoloured and probably looking rather washed-out.

Couldn't you just turn down the colour on your television sets?

[Wayne]

Gotta say i don't understand all this talk of Pertwee stories being better in Black & White!
They were made in colour & meant to be in clour. 'Mind of Evil' doesn't look better in Black & White any more than 'Remembrance of the Daleks' or something does. It's just some sort of weird romanticism nonsense!

[SiHart]

Well, the Spiridon jungle looks far more convincing in Black and White than it does in colour.

Si xx

[Wayne]

Well, the Spiridon jungle looks far more convincing in Black and White than it does in colour.

Si xx

I can't see why. *shrugs

I agree with Mr.Hunt. They should only be released on dvd in colour.
All you lot that want it in black & white have to do is turn the colour on your tv off whenever you watch a colour story. That way everybody's happy.

[SiHart]

Why? I suppose it's because of the lack of gaudy colours or something. It just seems more reminscent of the great jungle on Kemble in Masterplan in black and white, and i think that's a good thing. As you know I don't think much of the story really, so if turning down the colour makes me enjoy it more, then that's a good thing

But Mind of Evil in colour would be great. As would Invasion pt 1...

Si xx

[Larry]

[there was a thread on O.G, that has been going for some time about plans to colourise Ambassoders of Death, but from what I've just seen from a post Iain Levine made on his forum it seems nothing has come of it.

[Larry]

just going slightly off topic if the RT can successfully re-colourise Mind of Evil, will they eventualy be able to do any thing with Curse of Peladon, from what I've heard there are big problems with the picture quality of it. Obviously I don't understand the technical issuses but I guess improving the picture is not just a case of adding a bit of colour.

[SiHart]

The problem with Curse is that the mastertapes returned from the States in 1982 were in a terrible condition- they were literally falling apart as they made a copy of the story for broadcast in the summer of 82 for Doctor Who and the Monsters. No other colour copy has ever been found, so we're left with poor quality, very washed out copies of very poor mastertapes, and that limits hte options a bit, as they can't be RSCed as the original 525 line prints aren't really available...

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

Gotta say i don't understand all this talk of Pertwee stories being better in Black & White!

Nah, it looks fine in Black and White.

Look at the walls, they're horrible! Do we REALLY want to bring that colour back to the world? It's not the Mind of Evil, it's the Colour of Evil! Anything would be better than that in colour. It'll probably induce motion sickness, vomiting and migraines on the population. They restore that colour and people will be tearing their eyes out.

Seriously, if someone wants to spend their life colouring it in, I'd be perfectly happy to see it in colour. If it turned up in a video vault somewhere, I'd be happy with that too. But I don't reckon it would add that much to the story to see it in colour.

Couldn't you just turn down the colour on your television sets?

You're missing the point, Pip. If it turns up in colour, that's great and I'll watch it in colour and enjoy it, but if it doesn't it's no big loss. It depends on the results they get with the colouring - if they have to trade off a sharper black and white image against a blurry, murky, vaguely colour copy, it might not be worth it. If they do it well, that's great.

[Wayne]

Why? I suppose it's because of the lack of gaudy colours or something.

What's wrong with 'gaudy' jungles?

As you know I don't think much of the story really, so if turning down the colour makes me enjoy it more, then that's a good thing

Maybe you should try it on 'Planet of Evil' as well? That's got a gaudy jungle too. Infact, i might even try it myself on that one, to see if it improves the story.