2:12 Fragments

[WhiteCrow]

Ah, if only that would happen tonight!

I have to admit, the death of Owen this season made me realise despite everything, I have come to like some characters in Torchwood.

Ironically the two team members I'm least keen on are Captain Jack (who never seems quite as charming as his Who persona) and of course Gwen.

What was more annoying about Jack is in S3 Who he turned back into the Jack we loved, to go back to his moody "I've got secrets, aren't I mysterious" persona.

[Perry Vale]

We can but hope.

Although if the rumours about S3 are true, it might not be far off!

Talking of continuity, will the Doctor bump in to pre-DW Captian Jack on 'Volcano Day' in Pompeii next week?

[Si Hunt]

What are the rumours about S3? That there won't be one?

To be honest, I wouldn't mind. I love "Torchwood", but if they invented a new Doctor Who spin-off instead it could be just as good, maybe better.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

Conversely, I think Torchwood might have been much better if it hadn't been a Doctor Who spin off!

Aw, who am I kidding, we would still have had some utter rubbish episodes.

[WhiteCrow]

Conversely, I think Torchwood might have been much better if it hadn't been a Doctor Who spin off!

Aw, who am I kidding, we would still have had some utter rubbish episodes.

Some people seem to think Torchwood is solid gold, and they're the same people who'll say the mini series like Invasion Earth and Ultraviolet were rubbish. Ho hum ...

[Si Hunt]

I don't think there's been any rubbish episodes in the sense of not being entertained for 45 minutes. The worst you can say is that sometimes the series has been inconsistent with itself, and that it does regularly try out different styles, not all of which are to everyone's tastes.

Si.

[Perry Vale]

What are the rumours about S3? That there won't be one?

Wellll.......

That it'll be only 5 episodes long, and Martha/Freema will be taking charge of the Torchwood team, whoever is left, that is. Also, it's rumoured that it'll air on BBC One this time around, in a Doctor Who-style timeslot. It may also air before the end of 2008, with a back to normal 13 episode stint returning in 2010. Or something.

[Rob McCow]

Hmm - no episode has got everything wrong. Even the bad ones have some redeeming feature...

Nah, Random Shoes was utter drivel.

I suppose the real problem is that the utter daftness of some of the concepts (pterodactyl, psycho-alien Nerys Hughes, everything in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Death literally turning up to try to kneecap Owen) sits completely at odds with the 'super-cool, hi-tech' atmosphere it tries to create on even weeks and the 'ultra-real, gritty atmosphere' it has on odd weeks.

[WhiteCrow]

I would say there has been some utter stinkers as far as episodes have gone. Like I've said before, you hear some people go on about how good the writing is, how polished the scripts are, and you wonder if you're watching the same show as them ...

Unfortunately at times I remember how in the 90s the BBC watched a UK X-Files, and now they've got it, 10 years too late - after we've all gone off X-Files. Good old BBC, it's so cutting edge, it sees a market, and fills it a decade later.

[Perry Vale]

Those rumours/spoliers I posted above are "confirmed" in today's Daily Star, I've just noticed, but adding that........Martha taking over is due to the fact Barrowman still hasn't been cloned by the BBC, and his workload is too great, and also that the five episodes will apprently run over one whole week......

So there you go.

[Si Hunt]

It hardly seems worth bothering with it for a week!

"Torchwood" is odd. I think I like the characters, I like the variation in the plots, I like the effects and I like the ideas. But somehow... SOMEHOW none of it really gels. I can't believe the season ends tonight - I find myself thinking "is that it?". I've enjoyed all the episodes, and yet I find I'm still waiting for the one that actually affects me. That's truly brilliant, rather than just quite clever. There's been no journey at all, even Owen's "death" was just something that happened for a couple of episodes. I don't feel I've travelled with these people, just watched a handful of semi-exciting adventures about them. I can't claim to know what's wrong with "Torchwood" but in truth it's just like every other attempt down the years at making Doctor Who without the Doctor - you're always left feeling that the most important ingrediant is missing.

Si.

[Wayne]

I kind of know what you mean.
If you ask me the best one was 'To the Last Man' way back at week 3. I thought that was a beautiful episode. The closest to it for me since then has been 'Adrift' a couple of weeks back. But i was strangely unexcited by the Martha/Owen stories in between. They weren't bad, but just lacked something.

[Si Hunt]

Yes I agree with those choices.

Martha was wasted! What was the point of bringing her into it for three episodes, only to have her in the background for two of them.

Also in hindsight it was mightily contrived. A young woman with a trainee job, joins the Doctor, has adventures, leaves him. As always. But it just so happens the minute his back was turned she somehow joined UNIT and then was seconded to Torchwood. Lucky that. I bet when Donna leaves the Doctor she just happens to buy a house next door to Sarah-Jane.

Si.

[Andy Frankham]

In fairness, Si, she didn't 'just so happen' to join UNIT. She got her doctorate, which took a bit of time between leaving the Doctor and being enlisted by UNIT. Which, lest we forget, was clearly implied because the Doctor had recommended her for the position.

I'm not defending Torchwood. Far from it. But in this case, it works. Unlike pretty much everyone else in Torchwood, Martha's journey is the only one that makes any kind of sense.

[Rob McCow]

Ah, if only that would happen tonight!

Gah! The guilt! The guilt! Etc.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Some people seem to think Torchwood is solid gold, and they're the same people who'll say the mini series like Invasion Earth and Ultraviolet were rubbish. Ho hum ...

Good god! Invasion Earth was AWFUL.

[SiHart]

In fairness, Si, she didn't 'just so happen' to join UNIT. She got her doctorate, which took a bit of time between leaving the Doctor and being enlisted by UNIT. Which, lest we forget, was clearly implied because the Doctor had recommended her for the position.

Well no, not quite. It was implied that Martha thought that was what happened, but that it was actually Jack who recommended her. Unless I read that scene wrong.

Si xx

[Andy Frankham]

I never read it like that. It always came across, to me, like one of the usual oblique references that Torchwood does to the Doctor. I mean, if it was Jack why didn't he just say so to her? But, you know, maybe it was Jack. A possibility I never considered.

[SiHart]

Didn't Jack smile and say it was him, which deflated Martha a bit? I've only seen it once, but that's what I remember.

Si xx

[Andy Frankham]

Definitely don't remember that. I do seem to recall Jack also implying it was a mutual friend of theirs... When it comes on DVD we'll have to find out. *lol* Torchwood doesn't make wanna watch too closely... Mind you, Martha's first two appearances were my fave stories of this seires.

[Philipnet]

There's only one thing that happens after an episode like this.

Is anyone actually keeping score of how many times Jack dies?
Ianto seemed more talkative and gay compared to his Torchwood Season 1 persona.
Would Gwen really have missed all the action?
I wonder what a head-less or body-less Owen would be like?

There's only one thing that happens after an episode like this, and that is change.
After episode 13, Torchwood will not be as we know it.

[Rob McCow]

After episode 13, Torchwood will not be as we know it.

I'd be hard pushed to tell you what Torchwood was 'like' even now!

Apart from to say it's fun but quite often a bit crap.