The First 'New' Doctor Who.

[Wayne]

Nice review yourself, Pip! And some good points in favour of 'Fury', particularly about Victoria leaving, which i agree was really nicely done, even though i'm not overly fond of the character.
Like you, i prefer the next companion.

[Logo Polish]

Fury From The Deep

This was a story that remained obscure for me for a very long time, when all that I knew about it was gleaned from a few mysterious photos in Dr Who Weekly showing Patrick Troughton opening a metal box out on a beach somewhere while wearing a deflated life jacket and a woolly hat. So it was one of those ones where I originally read the book with very little foreknowledge of the content.

While on the face of it the story might seem to fit comfortably in with what had become established as the season norm - isolated base under siege from monster (s) - there are a number of factors which distinguish it from most of its near neighbours. For instance, there's an interesting development on the nature of the archetypal base commander-authority figure. Whereas Hobson is weary and cynical, and Clent has allowed himself to be mentally painted into a corner by his philosophy, Robson seems (during the first half of the story) to be so painfully insecure about his position that it seems to be genuinely creating or worsening a pyschiatric disorder within him. His obstinate refusal to have the pump turned off in order to investigate the others' concerns becomes ever more shrill and defensive as the episodes progress.

This seems to betray a lack of confidence in his own authority, as if he fears that being swayed by other points of view will mean he won't be able to keep control of the situation. The way in which he tries to dismiss Harris as a red-brick University-educated type also implies that he feels threatened by him. Whereas someone who had genuine self-confidence would be better able to handle unwelcome arguments or assertiveness in colleagues, Robson chooses to reagard anything he doesn't want to hear as an attempt to undermine him and his achievements.

This sort of dynamic anticipates what happens to Hindle and Sanders in Kinda, in some ways. A man driven to apparent mental illness by the strain of command and being in a situation he feels unable to handle, which is then exacerbated and effectively resolved by other agents (the weed creature in Robson's case, as it takes him over, the box of Jhana in Hindle's and Sanders'), before being finally restored to a more balanced normality by the end of the story. Just as Hindle has lost his edgy insecurity, and Sanders has acquired a gentler and more flexible personality by the end of their story, so Robson has managed to unbend enough to have a relaxed meal with the Harrises and the Doctor's party while laughing over their earlier behaviour. He still asserts his authority at the end, with Price, but this time it has a slightly mischievous conspiratorial feel, as if he's recognising (without saying so) that a little private irreverence is harmless and no threat to him.

Something else which separates it from the norm is the unusual extent to which the domestic angle is played up, even showing supporting characters' living quarters at some length. This is partly to emphasize the anguish that Harris must be feeling after his wife Maggie has both fallen ill and then gone missing, having showed them as a devoted and happy married couple at the outset, but to attempt to depict the family life of any character in stories of this variety at this time is very unusual, and does give a slightly different feel.

It's also notable that there's very little attempt to suggest anything futuristic. Much of the story feels quite contemporary for its time, with its emphasis on industrial technology and settings (pumps, oil rigs, helicopters), and I've been quite sure exactly what period it's supposed to be set in.

Oak and Quill have a slightly bizarre quality too. A homage to Laurel and Hardy (and John Gill's speech patterns as Oak even seem to suggest something of Oliver Hardy's softly enunciated smoothness whenever the latter puts on the charm, if without the Georgia accent, although I don't know if that was intentional on anyone's part). The scene where they overpower Maggie Harris by ... breathing on her ... is somehow sinister and absurd at the same time.

It could be said that the story anticipates Terror of the Zygons (oil rigs being attacked and the crews lost) and more loosely Horror of Fang Rock (playing on primal fears of unknown monsters from the sea, although of course this is a very old archetype anyway, eg The Kraken Wakes). The parasitic nature of the weed, which leads the possessed Robson to declare "There is no [such concept as] mind [ie individuality]" also allows for another riff on the theme of loss of identity, implied by the conformity of the likes of the Daleks or Cybermen.

Victoria's departure is signposted quite clearly from very early on, but in a way which seems true to her character. She did indeed never really want a life of adventure, having had her previous existence interrupted against her will, and her evident distress about continually being put through dangerous situations isn't surprising considering her previous form. Endlessly being captured, threatened, coerced, it's not surprising she wants another home in relative safety. Equally though, she doesn't want the Doctor and Jamie out of her life either, any more than they want to see her go, hence the process of parting is painful for all of them. The Doctor's sensitivity to her wishes, his allowing her extra time to choose, and the way he realises she wants to leave before she tells him, remind me a little of his pep talk to her in Tomb. Just as there he assures her that no-one else can live as they do, so he now recognises that what she really desires is a life as settled as the one she's left behind.

This domestic angle, and the human interest developed from it, could even be said, possibly, to be reminiscent of Russell T Davies' take on the series. And after all, there is a certain well-known companion from his Dr Who series whose departure also involved a tear-stained farewell on a lonely windswept beach while being comforted by her newly adoptive family...leaving the Doctor in the TARDIS with only another companion, in a rather grumpy and out-of-sorts mood, for company...

[Wayne]

Fury From The Deep

Victoria's departure is signposted quite clearly from very early on, but in a way which seems true to her character. She did indeed never really want a life of adventure, having had her previous existence interrupted against her will, and her evident distress about continually being put through dangerous situations isn't surprising considering her previous form. Endlessly being captured, threatened, coerced, it's not surprising she wants another home in relative safety. Equally though, she doesn't want the Doctor and Jamie out of her life either, any more than they want to see her go, hence the process of parting is painful for all of them. The Doctor's sensitivity to her wishes, his allowing her extra time to choose, and the way he realises she wants to leave before she tells him, remind me a little of his pep talk to her in Tomb. Just as there he assures her that no-one else can live as they do, so he now recognises that what she really desires is a life as settled as the one she's left behind.

This domestic angle, and the human interest developed from it, could even be said, possibly, to be reminiscent of Russell T Davies' take on the series. And after all, there is a certain well-known companion from his Dr Who series whose departure also involved a tear-stained farewell on a lonely windswept beach while being comforted by her newly adoptive family...leaving the Doctor in the TARDIS with only another companion, in a rather grumpy and out-of-sorts mood, for company...

And another excellent review, Logo.
I particularly agree with what you're saying about Victoria's leaving, especially the RTD comparison, which i hadn't thought of before.

[Pip Madeley]

Thank you Iain, for a very entertaining and extremely well-written review.

[Logo Polish]

Cheers, fellas. V kind of you to say so.

BTW, don't know if you already knew, but I only found out recently that Margaret John (Megan Jones) was the grandmother in The Idiot's Lantern as well. And she was in the first ever Blake's 7 episode, playing the judge who sentences Blake to exile on Cygnus Alpha.

She's got an assistant called Perkins in FFTD as well, hasn't she? Taking a leaf out of Solicitor Grey's book there...

[Stephen Morgan]

Excellent review there from Logo, who's reviews I always find entertaining to read, that one redressing the balance of popularity for Fury, which I believe is a lost, and often forgotten classic. I expected Wayne to have thought better of it, but there again it is one of the stories that has little or no visual evidence to swing the balance.

[Pip Madeley]

I only found out recently that Margaret John (Megan Jones) was the grandmother in The Idiot's Lantern as well. And she was in the first ever Blake's 7 episode, playing the judge who sentences Blake to exile on Cygnus Alpha.

She was also the evil Nanatoo in the Mighty Boosh. When I realised it was Megan Jones I grinned...

... nobody else understood.

[Raston]

Hmm, i may join in discussion once we've passed Fury from the Deep since i've not heard it in a while (mostly because its dreadful IMO) and i don't have the CD of it with me at the moment. I'm looking forward to Wheel in space though!

[Pip Madeley]

Fury from the Deep since i've not heard it in a while (mostly because its dreadful IMO) and i don't have the CD of it with me at the moment

I like a nice well-informed opinion.

[Raston]

I like a nice well-informed opinion.

It is well informed-and i mentioned why i wouldn't comment further; because i have not heard it in a while (because it is of my well informed opinion that it is dreadful) and that i do not have the CD of it available to me at the moment thus could not review it again fairly. Stories i know very well and have seen/heard an awful lot of times i could review from 'memory alone' (colin baker, nick briggs, a station. its all good) but this one i am less well versed with because, i rated it as dreadful on ever occasion i have heard/watched it and thus have not had the displeasure of watching or listening to it in a while.

It is tedious, has lazy performances all round, a horribly contrived device to kill the monster, a very forced ending, downright intrusive incidental music, and a monster with no threat what so ever. However if it will make you happy-when i do have it back again (i lent it to someone) i will give it a proper review, and i will be as fair with it as possible.

[Wayne]

No obligation, but feel free to comment on any of the previous stories, if you wish, Andrew. And put your rankings for the season 4 Troughton stories if you want, to give an idea of which ones you like.
I'm doing approximately 2 eps a day, (but this may increase next season as it's complete stories, bar one) so my 'Wheel in Space' review, & season 5 rankings will be up sometime tomorrow.

[Raston]

No obligation, but feel free to comment on any of the previous stories, if you wish, Andrew. And put your rankings for the season 4 Troughton stories if you want, to give an idea of which ones you like.
I'm doing approximately 2 eps a day, (but this may increase next season as it's complete stories, bar one) so my 'Wheel in Space' review, & season 5 rankings will be up sometime tomorrow.

Thanks Wayne. I'll put some thoughts about season 4 down later today (I should point out that i *love* season four)

[Wayne]

Thanks Wayne. I'll put some thoughts about season 4 down later today (I should point out that i *love* season four)

Cool.
I was reading on the other thread how much you like 'Underwater Menace'. It's not a mega fave of mine, but i don't think it's nearly half as bad as some people make it out to be.
'The Moonbase' is my favourite of S4, with the underated 'Power of the Daleks' running a close second.

[MacNimon]

I'll comment on Fury soon, once I've watched the recon.(thanks, Wayne ) But I really enjoyed the bbc audio release of the story, although I haven't listened to it for several years. I enjoyed the novelisation as well, albeit a long time ago, and I'm looking forward to renewing my acquaintance with this story.

[Wayne]

The Wheel in Space

I don't have particularly fond memories of this story, having heard it when the BBC Audio was released, i found it rather dull & ploddy, & i'm afraid Ep.1 was does little to dispel that perception. I must admit, that initially i quite got into the atmosphere of it, as the Doctor & Jamie explore the deserted rocket, But after about 10 minutes i could feel myself starting to glaze over, mentally........ I didn't find episode 2 that much better, to be honest. None of the characters on the Wheel really made much of an impact, bar perhaps Dr.Corwyn & obviously Zoe, but storywise there's very little really happening to propel it along, & only at the cliffhanger, where we see in the upcoming reprise, the cyberman breaking out of the sphere, does my interest really get triggered.
Things do start to pick up a bit in Episode 3, & once again, the chance to view this episode properly via the 'Lost in Time' set, helps to get a better feel for the story, & the atmosphere of the setting, & a better grip of the different characters. It's still not a fast paced episode, but things are improved somewhat for me, just by the appearance of the Cybermen & the Cybercontroller, although IMO the 'new' Cyber voices aren't quite as effective as the 'Moonbase/Tomb' voices, which are now being used exclusively for the Cyber Controller, & the perhaps the less said about the unintentional hilarity of the Cybermats attack on the crewman, the better!
Episode 4 isn't too bad, as it goes. Again, perhaps a tad slow, but there's are some good scenes. Already, the character of Zoe is far more preferable to me than Victoria, & Padders makes a good job of it. I like the scene where Jamie inadvertently interrupts her whilst she's making a recording. Even at this early stage, there's the beginnings of a good chemistry between them. Actually, although i've never been a huge fan of Hines/Jamie; there have been a few scenes lately where the character has grown on me a bit, & i think Frazer does pretty well when Jamie's not being overly macho.
Episode 5 isn't that great really, IMO. There is a slight increase in the tension levels, mainly because the Cybermen have actually started doing a bit of something, But otherwise, it all feels a bit routine, to me.
It's back to 'Lost in Time' for the final episode, which obviously ups the level of enjoyment a bit more. And it is a slightly better episode, especially as it benefits from the most Cyber action. (Love the big lava lamps! And i could swear the Doctor says 'sexual air supply') But, much as i like the 60's Cyb's, i have to say that on the whole this story has failed to really engage me, & i can't even say that i've cared much what happens to any of the characters.
It's notable because of the Cyb's & Zoe, which would probably give an extra half point each to my overall score, which would be 6/10 on a good day. I think it's probably the weakest of the Cyber stories, (the only other contender for me would be Silly Nemesis) & certainly the weakest of the season.
So, one season to go! I have to confess that i've been a tad underwhelmed, especially by the latter half of Season 5. 'The Ice Warriors' is the only that comes close to 'Tomb', which is my clear favourite of the season, whilst the bronze medal, as it were, would go not to the alledged classic: 'Web of Fear', which came across as rather overated to me, but in spite of the flaws i mentioned; to 'The Enemy of the World'. It may be a slightly atypical Who story, but i actually feel that that's one of it's strengths in a season of stories that all have a similar theme. Even Troughton, during the latter half of this season; whilst not actually doing anything 'wrong' has blanded out slightly for me. I don't feel that i'm observing as many standout moments in these last few stories as i was earlier in the thread. On the plus side, bar 'The Space Pirates', it's all 'complete' stories now, to the end of the thread.
My full rankings for S5 then, would be:

Tomb of the Cybermen
The Ice Warriors
Enemy of the World
The Abominable Snowmen
Web of Fear
Fury From the Deep
Wheel in Space

[Logo Polish]

The Wheel In Space

Notable as an early attempt at space opera for the series, but unfortunately undermined by several factors. For one thing, the pacing of the story, even by 60s Who standards, just seems incredibly slow, and there is a serious lack of incident to much of the action. All too often it merely plods remoreslessly on in a way that makes it very difficult to care very much about the status of the bernalium or the power room or various rods needed for this or that purpose.

As it happens, the first episode is slightly more interesting than the rest, probably because it focuses less on the story and to a larger extent on the Doctor and Jamie re-adjusting to life without Victoria whilst stuck in what almost amounts to a science-fiction "trapped in a lift" scenario. Improvising to find food while ruminating over whether the rest of her life should turn out alright, while also trying to find out where they are and how to find a way out, it has a quality similar to the first episode of Ark In Space where the story is playing second fiddle to the regulars.

The story's view of the future continues in the same sort of vein as the likes of The Moonbase and The Ice Warriors have attempted, in that it features a multi-ethnic cosmopolitan staff, with even, for a change, more than one female speaking role. Gemma Corwyn is slightly different from the "icily efficient" female authority figures who have started becoming something of a convention at this stage (eg Miss Garrett, Megan Jones) though, in that she has a more openly warm and informal personality, and comes across as a much more sympathetic character, than those others. Concerned for people's pyschological well-being as much as efficiency, she has less of the dehumanised managerialist obsession with order and little else that some of the other authority figures of this era demonstrate.

Indeed, it could even be said that Zoe is a character well on the way to becoming another of these Miss Garretts. The effect of her conditioning by the Parapsychogy unit has apparently been to close off most of her emotions, the spontaneous and instinctive side of her nature, something which even many of the other characters tease her for, to the point where it begins to cause her genuine distress and she starts to fear that there is something incomplete and dysfunctional about her personality. Ironically, the conditioning seems almost to have been an attempt to artifically induce a form of autism in her, with a capacity to deal in hard facts and figures, but little ability to form emotional attachments or understand human relationships. The points driven home to her a few times by the Doctor and Jamie about facts being only so much use in themselves and logic "merely [allowing] you to be wrong with authority" are meant to show her that there are whole areas of life she understands little about, whatever statistical data she may have at her fingertips.

When Zoe runs off to join the Doctor and Jamie at the end it's probably as much out of a desire to experience a less predictable, more adventurous kind of life as it is out of a wish to stay in their company. Her initial teasing and patronising of Jamie ("Oh, this is going to be fun, I can tell", which she says in the tone of voice of someone who's looking forward to taming an unruly pet dog) has gone the other way, and now she genuinely wants to experience the fun and excitement that his and the Doctor's lives offer.

Jarvis Bennett is another commander who ends up being sidelined by the unexpected. Closed-minded to the point of neurosis, he ends up being in a state of denial before getting killed when he makes a futile attempt to avenge Gemma's death (unless he knows it's futile and is effectively committing suicide because he can't bear the thought of her not being alive anymore). His lack of adaptability is possibly another example of the dangers of inflexible attitudes.

I can't really get very interested in the actual narrative. A couple of Cybermen try to invade a space station, there's a lot of running around and people being killed, and a rather sudden resolution when the army of Cybermen from outside get blown away into space. It does have some interesting way-out designs (the lava lamps on the walls for example), and some very moody music and sound effects, but the story could really have done with a lot of tightening up.

[Logo Polish]

As for rating the season, maybe these:

The Abominable Snowmen
The Web Of Fear
Fury From The Deep
The Tomb Of The Cybermen
The Ice Warriors
The Enemy Of The World
The Wheel In Space

BTW, I think there are two Craddocks in Wheel. Michael Goldie, who played the character in the Dalek Invasion Of Earth on TV plays Elton Laleham, and Kenneth Watson, who plays the same character in the film Daleks: Invasion Earth 2150, plays Bill Duggan.

[MacNimon]

I think my rankings for season 5 would be

The Web of Fear
Tomb of the Cybermen
Fury From the Deep
The Ice Warriors
The Abominable Snowmen
Wheel in Space
Enemy of the World

Enemy Of The World being in last place simply because it's a story I'm not at all familiar with. The Abominable Snowmen I've only read the novelisation, which I loved, but it's hard to say how good the actual episodes themselves would have been. The Web Of Fear is easily my favourite story, though...but again, without being able to watch the episodes it's hard to be sure exactly how good it is. Ditto for Fury

With the exception of The Wheel In Space there's not a great deal to seperate most of these stories, at least in terms of them all being good, strong, enjoyable enough stories, as far as I can tell. I've never attempted to watch, read or listen to these stories in order, so I've never been too aware of the common complaint that they are too alike in style.

[Stuart Wallis]

The WheelIn Space

I agree with Wayne and Logo, this story doesn't go too far too quickly. What's there is at turns fairly enjoyable and can we get on with it please. Episode one is possibly the best of the story, in that it sets up the situation in a very tidy fashion. After that though, things are a bit hit and miss. Episode three is also a good episode, starting with the replay of the cliffhanger of part 2, the best part of that episode, and a rather sinister moment as the Cyberman slowly comes into focus. Part 3's worst moment is that scene with the Cybermats. These days, I'm not as bothered with the acting as the pacing, and why he doesn't just jump over the creatures and run for help, or scream for assistance sooner.

During the next couple of episodes, Jarvis' breakdown doesn't have what was I suppose is the desired effect; he's more of an irritant than someone who deserves sympathy, as Lesterton did in the same situation did in Power, or Lawrence Scarman. A couple of times the episodes almost come to a halt while he tears someone off a strip and everyone looks at eachother pointedly as he marches off. Otherwise though,the crew tend to be the sort of mixed bag of personalities you normally get in the workplace, so they are at least a pretty realistic crowd. Zoe I should point out, she's not great, but she does get better, it's only her first outing. Jamie is Jamie, and I have a soft spot for him, the daft Scot; unlike Wayne, it's not Hackney Marshes. It's a shame that the Doctor doesn't really get involved until halfway through part three. And I quite like the Cybermen voices - at least I can understand what they're saying. The costumes are good, it's a shame there isn't enough of them, in more ways than one.

[Raston]

(i was a lot more busy this weekend than i had expected-i'll write my thoughts on season 4/5 soon though)

[Wayne]

(i was a lot more busy this weekend than i had expected-i'll write my thoughts on season 4/5 soon though)

No probs, mate.

[Wayne]

The Dominators

I really don't know what certain people's problem with this one is. Ok, i'm not saying it's awesome or anything, but IMHO there's far worse dull Who stories out there than this one. (2 of which have just been released in a DVD box set)
I find the interplay between the two Dominators is amusing enough to be rather entertaining. Even the 10mins at the start of Ep.1 before the Tardis crew arrive, i spent chuckling to myself at Rago & Toba's unintentionally comic rivalry. The Dulcians are a bit of a wet lot, & surely Cully is about 25yrs older than he ought to be, but generally they're well represented characters, & the lovely Kando also represents some sweet 60's eye candy. Of course, when finally see these destructive Quarks at the end of Ep.1, they are quite hilarious, especially with those dodgy voices.
I can't say i had any real problems with Episode 2 either. Admittedly, it's not the fastest paced story in the world, but i've experienced a lot worse, & i found it pleasant enough viewing, even if not the most exciting thing ever. We see a little more of Dulcian society, who oddly enough remind me of the Time Lords in way; stuffy old windbags! Meanwhile, Toba's almost childlike, one dimensional desire to destroy makes me chuckle again.
I have to concede that things do start to flag a bit during Episode 3. Most of the interest centres around Zoe & the Dulician's being forced to do manual labour, supervised by the ludricrously ineffectual Quarks, which are a consistent source of humour, particularly when Jamie uses the laser gun on one them as the episode finshes.
Episode 4 is a bit better, IMO. There are a few scenes that liven it up. The tension between the 2 Dominators is now escalating into open conflict, & i rather enjoy the bickering between them! Meanwhile, Rago confronts the Dulcian leaders, & Toba bullies the Dulcian slaves to find out destroyed one of the Quark's & eventually kills Balan, is his determination to discover Jamie's whereabouts.
The last episode is actually quite good fun i reckon, especially with the Tardis team & the Dulcians going on the attack. It's funny watching the Quarks being tripped up, & being on the receiving end of the Doctor's 'home made' bombs. It's a surprsingly abrupt ending to the story, especially considering it could easily have lost an episode & been better paced for it, & the Doctor's final 'Oh My Word' & exaggerated comic surprise, perhaps signals the direction that the tone for Troughton's Doctor will move further towards during his final season.
So there's 'The Dominators' then. No classic by any means, but not as bad as all that if you ask me. It may be humourous for the wrong reasons quite a lot of the time, but that's better than being downright boring!
Any opinions?

[Pip Madeley]

I agree with you Wayne!

This uber-cool heavily edited version of it is tremendously exciting viewing.

[Andrew Curnow]

I like it. It's not classic, or even classy, but it's solid, and reliable, and dependable. Plus the sudden zoom in at the end of episode 1 is a stonking cliffhanger moment.

[SiHart]

I really don't know what certain people's problem with this one is.

Do you mean me?

It's probably a lot better than I remember it being. If I'm honest the main reason I didn't watch it for years was because I didn't have a copy! Still, my not watching it has become something of a cult thing now, so it's goign to carry on for a while yet, but I suspect that by the end of the year the Dominators Embargo will have been lifted...

Si xx