The First 'New' Doctor Who.

[Wayne]

The First 'New' Doctor Who.

Back in 2003 on the Ezboard PS, as a relative newcomer to fandom, & a staunch fan of 70's (& to a fairly large extent 60's) Who. I decided to obtain & review all those 80's stories, most of which i'd never seen, in a series of 3 threads devoted to the era's of Peter, Colin, & Sylv. After being encouraged by so much response/feedback on the threads, i decided it would be fun to cover my personal nostalgia era: The 70's, & thus did threads for Jon & Tom's time. As those threads were equally popular, i decided i might as well go the full hog & do the 60's. The last EZboard thread that i did covered Billy's era, but the whole thing was lost in the big EZboard crash, i never got around finishing off with the Troughton era. I had originally planned to do it on EZboard before we moved, but with the announcement of 'The Invasion' dvd released this month, i decided to hang fire until it was out.
So now the time has come for a look at the Troughton era. I hope people will share any views they have on each successive story as i get to it. I'll probably do 1 or 2 stories per week, depending on other committments. I tend not to write huge transvamp style reviews myself, but feel totally free to make any comments you have, as brief or as long as you like. All is welcome.

Just over 40yrs ago, Patrick Troughton appeared on tv screens, fronting what was at the time, the revolutionary idea of casting a completely different actor to continue the role of the established main character of a popular tv series. I'm not totally sure if the concept was entirely new, (ie. Roger Moore wasn't the first 'The Saint', for instance) But whereas other shows may simply have been re-made, i think i'm right in saying that this was the first time it had been done whilst keeping the continuity & history of the character going. And of course, it introduced a major concept into the Dr.Who universe: Regeneration.

My own history with the Troughton era begins as a 10yr old boy. In 1973, those of us not old enough to remember previous incarnations were introduced to them in 'The Three Doctors', & in my case there was also the 'Radio Times 10th Anniversary Special' with it's tantalizing look at the history of Doctor Who. I also became a keen collector of the Target Books; the first of which appeared that year, & i remember with affection the first Troughton Target: 'Doctor Who and the Cybermen'.

As regards 'The Three Doctors', my first impressions of Troughton were laid out in my review of the story on my Pertwee era thread:

"As a 9 going on 10yr old boy, i had little concept of the programme that started almost 10 years earlier. Yes, i knew there were 2 other Doctors before Jon, but all i had to go on was an old Hartnell annual that i'd inherited from my Uncle, & a couple of paperbacks like 'Dr Who & The Daleks' etc...etc... Even the 10th Anniversary Special, which in itself was unique at the time, wasn't out for another few months. So this concept of 'other' Doctor's was more or less a new thing to me.
Anyway, I remember being most confused by Patrick Troughton. He interpretation of the Doctor was of course quite different to Jon's, & i found it very hard to take in, at the time. Because in some ways he plays it a bit 'Anti-Hero(ish) compared to Jon, i immediately thought of him as in some way inferior. He wanted to toss a coin because he didn't want to go into Omega's domain first, wheras my hero Jon, grabbed the coin in mid-air & goes in first, anyway. I didn't like the recorder playing business, & generally thought he was a bit silly. In short, i was not that impressed by my first encounter with the 2nd Doctor!"

I got my first viewing of a 'proper' Troughton story when the BBC Videos started coming out. I can't remember what year 'Seeds of Death' came out, but that was the first one, & whilst i enjoyed it, i still felt some reservations towards Troughton's slightly whimsical/comedic content. I did buy the rest of his era that was available on video, but whilst i didn't actively dislike his portrayal; he remained my least favourite of what i considered to be the 'classic' Doctors. (ie. the first 4)
I have heard most of the Missing story audios, & seen all the existing episodes, but the vast majority of the Troughton era, i have only ever seen or heard once, & most of that is long overdue a viewing by many years. For example, I haven't seen 'The War Games' since it's video release, & in the case of 'The Highlanders' - It's the only remaining Dr.Who story that i've never 'done'.
So this thread will be a chance for me to give Troughton's era a proper re-appraisal, of both Pat Troughton's interpretation, & the stories themselves. And hopefully to get other people's take on the stories as well.
I'll be posting my thoughts on 'Power of the Daleks' tomorrow night, but in the meantime:
What was your first experience of Troughton? Was it the BBC video 'Seeds of Death'? Was the 'Five Faces' repeats on tv? What were your very first impressions of what you saw?

[MacNimon]

I'm like you, The 3 Docs was my first sight of Troughton that I'm aware of, but I really had to wait until the Five Faces season in 1981 to get my first proper look at him in The Krotons.I thoroughly enjoyed this story (and Pat's performance) at the time, and even though the story isn't a fan favourite, I remain fond of it today. It certainly whetted my appetite to see more of the series history, but it was many years until I was to get the chance again.

[SiHart]

I first saw him The Krotons in November 1981. I can remember really liking his Doctor straight away and I'm really fond of the story to this day, despite it being nearly 10 years before I saw the final part, which we missed due to power cut!

Of course, I knew all about him, as my Mum had read some of the Target books to me by this point and we'd done a couple of his stories. At that time he was my Mum's favourite Doctor, so there was alot of talk between us about his stories- Yetis in the Underground and the Cybermen in their tombs being the main things. I'd seen lots of pictures in Doctor Who Monthly too- in summer 1981 they had a Troughton special with lots of pictures and a Tomb archive (for a while I was sure that the Cyber Controller had been Cyberised wearing a stove pipe hat, it's true!!), so I knew quite a lot about the second Doctor, despite him being the "forgotten" Doctor at the time for some reason.

The Five Doctors a couple of years later only cemented my love for his Doctor!

Si xx

[Larry]

I first saw him The Krotons in November 1981.
Si xx

That would of been The Five Faces of Doctor Who anniversary special - That was all so the first time I had seen a Patrick Troughton and in truth the first time that i really became aware that there had been other Doctor's before Tom Baker.

I have to be honest and say he is one of my least favourite Doctors - not because I don't like him but because I find with so much of his stuff missing I just find it hard to take to him.

[Perry Vale]

My first viewing of him was definitely 'The Three Doctors', at the age of five. He's possibly my favourite Doctor, up there with Hartnell.

the 'classic' Doctors. (ie. the first 4)

[Wayne]

Thanks folks.

My first viewing of him was definitely 'The Three Doctors', at the age of five. He's possibly my favourite Doctor, up there with Hartnell.

@Perry

I did say: what i considered to be

Funnily enough, sidestepping just slightly, I gained a far more favourable impression of Hartnell's Doc as 10yr old watching the 3 Docs. Perhaps 'coz he came across slightly more similar to Pertwee's Doc, in that he was a bit 'bossy', & authoriterean(sp).

[Matthew T]

I collected all the video releases as they came out, but I couldn't bring myself to get anything that was in Black & White for ages, until a time came where they were the only ones I didn't have, and I had birthday money to spend!

So I invested in "The Seeds of Death" and "The Mind Robber", the latter of which became the first Troughton I ever saw. I really can't remember my reaction to seeing him (the last "new" doctor to me, having seen "The Daleks" from the video rental shop).

Today the black & white era is my favourite, I raced through it (including all the missing episode audios) in the space of about 3 months earlier this year, but watching the colour episodes has been much more of a stop-start thing unfortunately.

I would agree that the first four doctors are the classic doctors and that none has lived up to them since.

[Andrew Curnow]

The first Troughton story I saw was, like Si and others, "The Krotons" in 1981, followed a fortnight later by his return in "The Three Doctors" - and as an aside, in this video/DVD age, it's hard to explain just how exciting it was to get to watch these old, old stories. But my first taste of the second Doctor was through the Targets - I think I'm right in saying that by the time "The Krotons" was repeated, they'd still only adapted six or seven Troughton stories (The Moonbase, Tomb, The Abominable Snowmen, The Ice Warriors, Enemy of the World, The Web of Fear, and possible The War Games), and I'd read them all avidly. So I kind of 'knew' what to expect from the second Doctor when I finally got to see him.

In fact, it's very hard to get into that mindset which would have been the case in 1966, of just how different the second Doctor is to the first, and also how brave an idea it was to change him. It could have been a 'jump the shark' moment for Who, but because it's done so totally for real, and because Troughton is just so watchable, it not only worked, but really revitalised the programme.

[Jonno]

My reply is a carbon copy of Andrew's really - The Krotons 25 years ago this month (jeez!) followed 2 weeks later by The Three Doctors. Plus I was aware of him in the mid 70s thanks to the Targets of the likes of The Ice Warriors, Abominable Snowmen, Web of Fear and The Cybermen.

I'm currently doing the whole Troughton era an episode at a time, having done part 3 of Evil tonight (Wayne will overtake me soon!) - S4 is superb and probably better than the somewhat over-rated S5. So sad that so much of S4 is missing, especially Power but more on that later...

[Wayne]

Interesting reading already, guys.

[Ralph]

Good to see this thread finally up

My first sight of Troughton I can recall was in 1973 with the Three Doctors and I remember reading the 10th anniversary special with great interest to see who had come before my Doctor.

There wasn't much to see though before he was gone and then not until 1981did I see anything of him again.

I think the Troughton era does look one of the most interesting - I find also his Doctor grows on me - certainly as a 10 year old, like Wayne I wasn't impressed much by this clownish Doctor. It's fantastic to see these black and white stories getting restored. Invasion was great to watch. I'm looking forward to this thread with anticipation - keep up the good work Wayne!

[Wayne]

Good to see this thread finally up

keep up the good work Wayne!

Thanks Ralph. I'll be starting proper, tomorrow. I've got the last 3 eps of 'Power' to watch.

[Logo Polish]

First picture I saw of him would have been the original Three Doctors cover probably. Then a few pictures in DWM, the first one of his stories I read was Abominable Snowmen (hence to this day the story always reminds me of when I was about 9), and the first story of his I saw on Television was, as with several others here, the Krotons. His getting their test wrong is one of my earliest memories of him.

My Dad was never keen on him at the time apparently, thougt he was too silly, and preferred Jamie. Myself, I love the fumbling quaintness and vague quality he brought the series. One of my favourites now.

[Captain Tancredi]

I'm yet another Krotons/Three Doctors/Five Doctors child (although that's interspersed with actually seeing the man himself at Longleat in 1983 and his performance as a not-entirely-dissimilar character in 'The Box of Delights' a year later). Memo to self- it's time to watch 'Box' again...

From what survives of Troughton's era (and we do at least have some visual clues of what most stories were like) I think two things stand out- the fluidity and sheer craftsmanship of Troughton's performance (audio doesn't do him justice, as his expression is often hinting at far more than the actual lines) and the unevenness of the stories themselves. The Troughton era at its best is atmospheric and compelling, but all too often it can be inconsistent and unimaginative, lacking the charm of the Hartnell years or the warmth and consistency of the UNIT era.

I'm also in the camp which believes that 'Power' is actually one of the better Dalek stories, and one which would be propelled certainly into the top twenty all-time stories if it were ever found. It adds a new dimension to the Daleks and gets the supporting characters right.

[Jason Thompson]

I absolutely love The Power Of The Daleks. When I bought the audio tape way back when, it was as much a historical curiosity to me as anything, not being overly familiar with Troughton. By that time I had seen The Mind Robber when BBC 2 repeated it in 1991, and The Tomb Of The Cybermen when the guy who ran our 'club' at school rushed out and bought it and put it on for us over a couple of lunchtimes.

But a couple of years ago I did a Time Team thing and watched the whole series in order, and Power just rocketed up in my estimation!

Bearing in mind that this was one of only two occasions in the show's entire history where the new Doctor's first story followed immediately the week after the previous one's last, the change is incredible. (Every other regeneration gives months between the first of the new and the last of the old, except for the Fifth/Sixth, and the Seventh/Eighth doesn't really count because McCoy hardly does anything in the first part of the TV Movie) This doesn't feel anything like a Hartnell story. Troughton is not so much a breath of fresh air as a real kick up the arse when it comes to making the part his own and making it clear that this is a new Doctor, not just a new face. The Daleks are better than ever, as David Whitaker shows he can write for them better than their creator (or maybe just write better) and makes them so cunning you could pin tails on them and call them weasels.

The whole thing builds and builds. Part One: The new Doctor and co arrive on Vulcan and find that someone has unearthed some Daleks. Part Two: The tensions in the colony allow for the reactivation of a single Dalek that ominously (for the viewers and the Doctor) declares itself the servant of the colony. Part Three: the lone Dalek begins manipulating the humans, and the dysfunctional nature of the colonists allows it to go so far as to reactivate others and the humans just let it, refusing to see that they are not so servile as they said... Part Four: Hints abound that the Daleks are up to something, as additional ones start to appear and they even start converting the colony's power supply for their own uses right under the colonists' noses, and finally Lesterson realises exactly what he has done: Part 5: The political infigting in the colony allows the Daleks build and build and build until they are ready to take over: Part Six, all hell breaks loose just as we knew it would. The buildup is gradual and logical. We don't suddenly see that there's an army, we see it being made. The plot has twists, but they are well thought out and constructed ones. The buildup is not continued right to the last five minutes of episode 6 and then suddenly resolved. Chaos reigns. One of the best constrcuted stories ever, I think.

A few other thoughts:

Yes, Polly collapses in tears when the Daleks are murdering everyone, but listen to Ben as he rounds on Lesterson; he's near hysteria himself. it's not just the girls who get upset.

The random clips that exist from across the missing episodes that were made by someone aiming a film camera at the TV screen and capturing a few seconds of stuff are, for the most part, pretty random and not much to write home about. But in this story there are the two best exceptions to this. There is one that lasts mere seconds of the Dalek advancing on the Doctor, with the Dalek's-eye-view of his terrified face, and there is one in Lesterson's laboratory. When the Doctor points out that one Dalek is 'all that is needed to wipe out this entire colony' the guy with the film camera caught the silent moment where Ben and Polly look worriedly at each other, then over their shoulders to the capsule behind them. Never has a one-second clip of existing visual material added so much to a scene.

[SiHart]

For years I was sure that Power of the Daleks was the weaker of the two Troughton stories, but I was wrong. This is the great one. It's been noted elsewhere that the Daleks are incredibly sneaky in this story and the way that they gradually and slowly build up their presence in the colony is brilliant. They're well written for, as Jonno has pointed out, and were never really better until Dalek last year.

Troughton is very good, even if for his first couple of stories he's not playing the Doctor in the way he'd later settle on. This Doctor really is different, a character that shifts all the time. I love the way that as soon as he realises there are Daleks there he does whatever he can to stop them right from the off, and the fact that he's scared of them. It must have been very unsettling for the audience in 1966 used to Hartnell's stern portrayal.

Polly and Ben are just excellent all the way through, especially as they struggle to come to terms with the new Doctor. Their different reactions to him ring true.

Si xx

[Wayne]

Nice to read all your comments! Some interesting observations made.
Those other bits of dialogue that Jonno points out where the daleks almost give away their true intentions were good moments too. And i've just remembered the moment where the weaponless dalek's gun mechanism is clicking in useless frustration when it's instinct to kill causes it to fire at the Doctor.
Plenty of time to talk about 'Power' - I started on 'The Highlanders' this morning. Suddenly, even Jonno's episode a day schedule seems too fast. I think an episode a week might suit this one.

[Carol Baynes]

"The Five faces of Doctor Who" season was quite a special event for those who were kids at the time. Most of us were veterans of the Tom Baker years, and most younger viewers only knew Jon Pertwee through "Worzel Gummidge".
It was the first repeat 'season' wasn't it, and came at a time when the new producer was quite keen to showcase the programme's past. The departure of Tom was also a timely event when it came to watching old stories. One episode of "100,000 BC" ("An unearthly child" or whatever) was definitely broadcast on Bonfire night as I recall going outside to play with a sparkler soon after.
Anyway..."The Krotons". I immediatly appreciated how different this Doctor was to the white haired guy in the other story. Hartnell was quite something else to someone used to Tom Baker. He was an imposing teacher figure, whereas Tom had been more of a mad uncle. Troughton was more like Tom, but seemed more scatty and perhaps less prone to lunacy. I remember accepting him right away. I'm not sure I was put off by "The Krotons" as a story, but I was 9 years old or whatever...the novelty of black and white telly and that fab tube thing in episode one was enough!
It was weirder accepting Jon as the Doctor. "It's Worzel Gummidge!", I said. To my parents he was recent news, but to me anything before about 1978 was ancient history. But I did like him at lot, and the fact Jon's episodes were in colour made him seem like a 'modern' Doctor, whereas the other guys may well have lived and already died for all I knew (I wasn't entirely wrong there).

But...yep...Troughton- the 'forgotten Doctor' he will perhaps always be, and ironically one of the most important.

[Captain Tancredi]

I think the Troughton era proper begins with 'The Moonbase'- it's the first in a line of strong stories which, with one or two exceptions, pretty much runs through to the end of Season 5. That said, there are one or two moments where it's clear that they still haven't toned down the outright comedy moments- the Doctor helping himself to somebody's shoe while it's still on their foot, for example- but it's disarming that he then admits to Polly that he's playing for time and doesn't know what's causing the sickness.

Totally unrealistic that a multinational moonbase would have a British head, though- particularly with a French number 2.

[Wayne]

Totally unrealistic that a multinational moonbase would have a British head, though- particularly with a French number 2.

Good point. I guess they should've had an American & Russian?

Anyway folks, Later today i'm off for the weekend, so i'll have to resume with 'The Macra Terror' early next week.
In the meantime, perhaps Milky James can keep you entertained with his reviews.

[MacNimon]

I've never seen the recon, I'm only familiar with the story through the old BBC Radio Collection tape and the DWB photonovel. I remember finding the 2 versios enjoyable, but I much preferred the photonovel as it was much clearer what was going on, which character was speaking, etc. I really can't comment too much on this story, as I havent seen/listened to it for about 15 years or so, and it's not exactly fresh in my memory. But this thread has made me want to read and/or listen to it again now...I think I'll go and dig the story out today in one of the formats, at least.

[Wayne]

I've never seen the recon, I'm only familiar with the story through the old BBC Radio Collection tape and the DWB photonovel. I remember finding the 2 versios enjoyable, but I much preferred the photonovel as it was much clearer what was going on, which character was speaking, etc. I really can't comment too much on this story, as I havent seen/listened to it for about 15 years or so, and it's not exactly fresh in my memory. But this thread has made me want to read and/or listen to it again now...I think I'll go and dig the story out today in one of the formats, at least.

Mac, Since a couple of my recons were 'upgraded' recently to ones which have the narration on them, I have 2 spare copies (on dvdr) of the Loose Cannon recons of Power & Evil of the Daleks. They're yours if you want them.

[MacNimon]

Mac, Since a couple of my recons were 'upgraded' recently to ones which have the narration on them, I have 2 spare copies (on dvdr) of the Loose Cannon recons of Power & Evil of the Daleks. They're yours if you want them.

Thanks, Wayne...that'd be great!!!

Thanks!

[Wayne]

Thanks, Wayne...that'd be great!!!

Thanks!

You're welcome.
I'll stick 'em in the postbox tomorrow. I hope you have better luck with the Royal Mail than myself & Pip have been having this week!

[MacNimon]

Well, I ordered the Series 2 boxset on Moday from Sendit.com, and it arrived early Wed morning! And I got a little something from Ralph this morning as well , so I've done ok so far this week. Too bad that my copies of Inferno, and Monk Season 4 both seem to be taking their time in coming, they were posted the same day as Series 2...