2:13 Exit Wounds

[Larry]

Looking forward to this tonight certainly from the pre-view at the end of the last episode it looks like being a good'n..

[Lord President]

Er - 3:13?

[WhiteCrow]

Shitsy crapsy - they killed off my two favourite characters.

But Gwen's STILL alive!

[duncan]

Oh. My. God!

The papers do their best to publish as many Doctor Who spoilers as possible, but overlook Torchwood.

The deaths of Owen and Tosh have come as a complete shock to me. What a great series this has been. All the problems of series one have been eliminated and the Torchwood team really jelled. Then they go and kill two of them off!

[chalkie]

so, they now need a new zombie.....sorry medic, and a new propellerhead...sorry computor expert. hmmm martha seems to be a possible shoe in for the first. as for the second. nobody obvious leaps to mind...

[WhiteCrow]

Grey was an interesting idea for a bad guy - very poorly acted.

[Rob McCow]

The deaths of Owen and Tosh were brilliant. I'm actually quite sad to see the buggers go! Tosh's last message to the Hub was a paticularly good touch, with Ianto logging them off for the last time. The team seems so small now. Burn Gorman and Naoko Mori were on cracking form.

I have to say though, the stuff with Grey was absolute rubbish. Bury Jack alive for 2,000 years and he doesn't go potty? What's that all about? And his damn jacket looks as good as ever! And after all that stuff about his brother, he chloroforms him and sticks him in a freezer. Well, at least it'll stop that whining git. The actor playing Grey was awful! "You don't know what it was like. I hate you. It's so unfair!" Gah!

[Wayne]

I'd figured on Owen going just as i was getting to like his more of nice guy side, but Tosh's death was a total surprise! And a bloody shame as well! Why didn't they get rid Ianto? He's crap!
It was a decent episode to finish on though. I was a bit meh about all the Jack/John/Gray stuff to be honest, but the Tosh/Owen stuff made up for it in spades. It was really beautifully done. Excellent acting from both, but i have to say it was an especially superb performance from Naoko Mori who made it really very moving. Good stuff from Barrowman & Myles as well on their reactions to their loss. It all nearly had me going as well! The last 20 minutes of this episode was possibly the best stuff of the season for me, & i'd say my 3rd favourite ep of the season overall. Would be higher, but the Jack/John/Grey stuff didn't really do it for me.

[Andrew Curnow]

Enjoyed it, as did Little Miss (Zel hasn't seen it yet) - but it didn't somehow quite manage to kick it into fifth gear, as a season finale ought to. It was sad to see Owen go (although not a surprise really) and also to see Tosh go (which was a shock).

Are we supposed to assume that John was working for Grey back in episode 1 as well, or was he just a real s**t then because he wanted to be?

And I agree, the actor playing Grey was pretty weak, and certainly lacking in any real screen presence.

But an entertaining finale, with enough twists and turns to keep us engaged. Nice to see the return of the Hoix too!!!

[Andy Frankham]

As Steve said the whole guff about Grey/Jack was shit, and the notion that Jack was buried alive for the best part of 2000 years and didn't even go a little loopy? Yeah, whatever.

Still, the last 15 mins of so with Owen and Tosh were fantastic. Owen's death not a major surprise, but Tosh... well, didn't see that coming. (And, loved the reference to Aliens Of London at last - the idea that Tosh was pretending to be a medic to cover a drunk Owen was a nice touch - doesn't explain why members of Torchwood had to go to London, though!).

So, yeah. Glad it's over, mind. Be interesting to see where they go from here. (And IF they find a way to be bring Owen or Tosh back that is not a flashback I will be mightily peeved. But not surprised.)

[Jason Thompson]

An odd one that. The guy playing Grey was awful, with the worst maintained half-hearted American accent I've ever heard (speaking of which, why did James Marsters have to play John with his Spike voice? He's American, so why not let him sound it?). Grey was also an idiot. The thing with the ring is the oldest trick in the book, especially given John's 'can't let you do this' before filling in the grave, and what did Grey think John was going to do if he set him free if not go back? Why couldn't John go a few weeks, days or hours forward and dig Jack up rather than leave him there for 2000 years?

But who cares? The focus was Owen and Tosh, and I really didn't see their deaths coming. Sadly, they've gone and killed off the two most interesting and fun characters, the bastards! Brilliant performances from Gorman and Mori, and the reactions of the others were also brilliant. Very strong stuff, though the musical accompaniment was a bit much in places.

And one line to confirm that Tosh was indeed the doctor in Aliens Of London. Still seems an arse-about-face way of explaining the casting of the actress in both parts five minutes before she dies. Oh well.

[WhiteCrow]

As Steve said the whole guff about Grey/Jack was shit

And they'd been building up to it for ages. In some ways it reminded me a bit of a Buffy season finale - which is probably unfair, as I'm probably only thinking that cos James Marsters was in it. Captain John got better as his character was reined in a bit.

Grey should have come over as a scheming callous little shit, instead whiny and annoying.

Shame this season didn't have Billis return - there was a villian who was unpleasant, and kind of came over well onscreen.

[WhiteCrow]

Now for the utter uber-geek in me ...

The plan to shutdown the reactor was utter pants. What was that all about? I speak I know as a physicist who did work for BNFL. But c'mon.

Why is there a nuclear power station in Cardiff - didn't Jack/Rose/The Doctor stop that one? I mean nuclear power plants do tend to be in remote-ish areas, not in the middle of a city.

It's a measure of the low budgetness of the series that the nuclear power station only had one member of staff during a crisis - those government cutbacks huh?

On the whole the episode felt like "keep running around, and no-one will notice there's no plot to this one". Although that seems harsh, I did enjoy it.

[Alex]

and what did Grey think John was going to do if he set him free if not go back? Why couldn't John go a few weeks, days or hours forward and dig Jack up rather than leave him there for 2000 years?

Well John did say that Grey gave him one trip away, so presumably if he'd travelled to only a few weeks later, he would have ended up dead by, say, AD 70, whereas this way he got to save his skin as well as Jack's. I agree that Jack seemed remarkably sane by 1901 which was a bit odd, a couple of scenes of him gradually regaining his sanity during that period might've made it more convincing (akin, perhaps, to the way Angel did in Buffy after his time in hell), but it didn't bother me that much.

Anyway, I loved this, it was exactly what I want from a big season finale - the threat of the deaths of pretty much all the characters, the weevil's finally being utilised in an interesting way (though I would have liked to see a few more scenes of them rampaging around Cardiff), Owen's first death making sense, and the surprise demise of a liked character. Though to be honest I'm not too bothered, as much as I liked Tosh she was always a bit nothingy in my eyes, and I won't miss her too much.

I quite liked the actor who played Grey too, though it seems I'm in the minority here, I just think they should have done more with his character and had a proper drawn out face off between him and Jack.

Still, overall for me it was one of the best episodes yet, it's got me really in to the series now, and if they hire James Marsters as a series regular next year I'll be even more optimistic about it.

[Wayne]

(though I would have liked to see a few more scenes of them rampaging around Cardiff)

Personally i wish they'd forget about them or just just lose them all or something. They're pointless.

[Alex]

I know what you mean, if they'd had the budget it'd been cool to see them really go mental though, and then it would have made some sense as to why they've been in the background of the series since day 1. But after that I'd have liked to have seen them all killed, because, well, like you say they are a bit sh*t at the end of the day!

[Wayne]

because, well, like you say they are a bit sh*t at the end of the day!

Yeah, like the 'ood'.

[SiHart]

The B-Plot with Owen and Tosh was better than the OTT Jack and Grey stuff and the blwoing up of Cradiff with lots of bombs, which seemed like empty spectacle to me. Burn and Naoko did wonders last night to save this episode from being total rubbish and both their deaths were really incredibly well played. Unlike Grey.

I shall miss them both, if of course they are both actually dead. Death isn't necessarily the end in Torchwood after all!

Si xx

[Larry]

well we all like to avoid spoilers to stop us knowing what was going to happen but boy just like everybody elese Tosh and Owen was totally unecpected.

In a way thouigh I think it's a good idea as with a small cast of just 4 regulars things will inevitably get a bit stale and this will by brinning in new characters threashen things up for series 3.(assuming of course there is one)

over all series 2 has been far more enjoyable then series 1, the stories have remained on the whole pretty solid and consistant in their quality.,

[Larry]

I shall miss them both, if of course they are both actually dead. Death isn't necessarily the end in Torchwood after all!

Si xx

well i'll be bloody annoyed if they go and spoil thing and btring them both back to life with that reserection glove thingy..

[Larry]

just wonder with Owen gone dose this leave the door open for Martha, to come back for series 3 full time.

[Rob McCow]

Martha, Martha, Martha! She'll do any series, any time!

The scenes with John, Grey and Jack must have been baffling - an American who works in the UK with an American accent, an American affecting an English accent and an Englishman putting on an American accent! They should have just done the whole scene in Russian and have done with it.

[Larry]

Martha, Martha, Martha! She'll do any series, any time!

The scenes with John, Grey and Jack must have been baffling - an American who works in the UK with an American accent, an American affecting an English accent and an Englishman putting on an American accent! They should have just done the whole scene in Russian and have done with it.

well you got me confused

but to clarify your point John Barrowman, was actually born in Scotland and emigrated to the U.S.A when he was around 9 years old..

[Rob McCow]

Insider knowledge, eh?

The actor playing Grey seemed very English on Declassified. And James Masters' English always sounded Australian to me.

[Andy Frankham]

Incidently, I'm pretty sure Marsters was speaking in his natural accent. His American accent is very very slight... no annoying twang. He sounded much like he does in his interviews to me.