Sontarans

[Zbigniev Hamson]

If they're meant to be a race of clones, why do they always look different each time they appear? Even when it's the same actor playing them. They could learn a lot from Dolly the Sheep frankly.

[Andrew Curnow]

I know, that always makes me grin. You can almost imagine Bob Holmes patting himself on the back when he typed the phrase "cloned race" as he thought it would save the BBC a bit of money - re-use the same mask over and over. Yet somehow they always look completely different!

I'm unexpectedly very excited about them coming back next week though. Can't remember the Sontaran officer's name from last night's trailer, but I thought he sounded a bit like Styggron.

[Si Hunt]

Well twins have the same DNA, they look subtly different though.

But an individual looks like a product of their lives and history, as well as their biological make-up. The Sontarans are all soldiers, so presumably they will have been injured, battle-damaged, perhaps even had flesh-wounds surgically repaired or surgery to restore them to fit-for-battle condition. So perhaps the differences are a result of this.

The real answer though, is that they do all look the same. You just have to suspend your imagination in the same way you have to watch the multi-Doctor stories and ignore the fact that people look older.

Si.

[WhiteCrow]

I've been looking forward to their return since I mistook the Judhoon for Sontarans in the Season 3 trailer.

I have to say though, I'm a bit disapointed the masks don't look a bit better. Alien makeup has come a long way in the last 20 years.

[Si Hunt]

Even in the old series, it's odd that the oldest masks used were by far the best, thanks to the addition of whiskers and other detail. Why could they afford/were able to make masks of that standard in 1974, but not in 1985 or 2008?

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

If they're meant to be a race of clones, why do they always look different each time they appear? Even when it's the same actor playing them. They could learn a lot from Dolly the Sheep frankly.

Just because they are a clone species doesn't mean they all came from the same progenitor. Indeed, it would make little sense to do that, since the enemy would have only to capture one specimen and then engineer a virus that killed their prisoner and they'd have a virus that could wipe out the entire race. Worse, they could run into a natural disease against which they have no immunity and they're all dead.

The way I look at it the Sontarans are cloned from a race pool, thus maintaining a degree of genetic diversity essential for survival while allowing the production of vast numbers of troops for combat.

[Jason Thompson]

I hate the redesigned Sontaran costumes. I think the excessive detail on the suit, the colour scheme, the finish, and the plastic mask just makes them look like He-Man toys more than anything else.

[Mike Saville]

The redesigned costumes were a necessity... the Judoon raided the laundrette on Sontara IV

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Regarding the new look... I have to say I remember how everyone was criticising the new Cyberman look from the publicity shots (Robocop with flares etc), but when they finally appeared on screen most people seemed to think they looked pretty good.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Just because they are a clone species doesn't mean they all came from the same progenitor. Indeed, it would make little sense to do that, since the enemy would have only to capture one specimen and then engineer a virus that killed their prisoner and they'd have a virus that could wipe out the entire race. Worse, they could run into a natural disease against which they have no immunity and they're all dead.

The way I look at it the Sontarans are cloned from a race pool, thus maintaining a degree of genetic diversity essential for survival while allowing the production of vast numbers of troops for combat.

Hmm, but then they DO tend to send them out in groups that do appear to all look like each other, so any inherent weakness they come across might not wipe out the whole species but would still probably wipe out the whole platoon in that area.

[Si Hunt]

Do they though? We only saw one Sontaran in their first two stories, two in "The Two Doctors" and only one I think helmetless in "Invasion of Time". Which story are you referring to?

Si.

[Rob McCow]

In classic Doctor Who style, we can only hope it'll all be explained next week!

Perhaps it's each Battlefleet that's different, so that the 9th will have a different appearance from the 10th etc.

[WhiteCrow]

Regarding the new look... I have to say I remember how everyone was criticising the new Cyberman look from the publicity shots (Robocop with flares etc), but when they finally appeared on screen most people seemed to think they looked pretty good.

Oh I agree - but from the trailer it looks kind of not as good as I'd hope. But that's only going on a couple of seconds footage. Hopefully overall it'll be an improvement.

[Mike Saville]

Regarding the new look... I have to say I remember how everyone was criticising the new Cyberman look from the publicity shots (Robocop with flares etc), but when they finally appeared on screen most people seemed to think they looked pretty good.

That was mostly fanboys who thought they should have wetsuits, golfballs and lace up brogues sprayed silver. The audience they were intended for loved 'em.

I'm not a big fan, but it's certainly an improvement on even the excellent! Earthshock redux.

[Jason Thompson]

Hmm, but then they DO tend to send them out in groups that do appear to all look like each other, so any inherent weakness they come across might not wipe out the whole species but would still probably wipe out the whole platoon in that area.

Do they?

In The Time Warrior we only saw Linx.

In The Sontaran Experiment we saw Styre and a Marshall who were identical, but that's all. Yes, Sarah said Styre and Linx were identical, but they clearly were not, so she's just being species-ist and recognising the broader features rather than the details. Styre also says they were identical, but since he wouldn't know who Linx was or exactly what he looked like he has no basis to make that judgement and, knowing that there are vast numbers of Sontarans who are identical to him, simply took Sarah's comment at face value.

In The Invasion Of Time we only see Stor. All the others have their helmets on the whole time, and the ones who speak do not sound like Stor.

In The Two Doctors Stike and Varl look very similar but they are identifiable by sight as one or the other (at least to me). But again, those are the only two we see.

So we really don't know that they form whole regiments from one basic clone template, and even if they do, the loss of one is still no great loss for a race than can produce over a million cadets at each muster parade and reproduce at the rate of a million every four minutes.

[WhiteCrow]

Don't you think they could have saved a lot of money and just put Phil Mitchell in a space suit?

I am though really looking forward to next week, the Sontarans have always been a bit of a fave, a kind of violent Intergalactic Rugby Squat on tour.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Do they though? We only saw one Sontaran in their first two stories, two in "The Two Doctors" and only one I think helmetless in "Invasion of Time". Which story are you referring to?

Si.

I was referring to The Two Doctors and Invasion of Time, but I'm probably misremembering them to be fair. Although there were technically two in The Sontaran Experiment, but that doesn't really count.

[Larry]

Regarding the new look... I have to say I remember how everyone was criticising the new Cyberman look from the publicity shots (Robocop with flares etc), but when they finally appeared on screen most people seemed to think they looked pretty good.

well that's how I've felt with the new look sontarons, I've had my doubts about them from all the photos i've seen but having seen them in action in the trailer I have to say they look pretty damn good.

[Pip Madeley]

I'm reserving full judgement until I've seen them in proper action, but from the photos I've seen I think they look fine, it's an improvement on The Two Doctors design, which is what matters...

[Andrew Curnow]

I thought they looked excellent in the trailer - I'm really rather looking forward to it!!

And - Hi Mike, great to 'see' you here!

[Jason Thompson]

I'm reserving full judgement until I've seen them in proper action, but from the photos I've seen I think they look fine, it's an improvement on The Two Doctors design, which is what matters...

The Two Doctors design was identical to the way they'd appeared before, they just buggered up the execution. They made them tall, despite their shortness being an obvious trait in every other story; they made the mask look too rubbery, and didn't even try to make the lips match the actor's mouths, so you get a static broadly smiling Sontaran mask with the actor's mouth clearly visible moving underneath; and they failed utterly to attach the collars and masks so they looked like part of the alien. Terrible execution of an otherwise fine basic design.

[Wayne]

I agree with Jason.
IMO the Sontaran face/mask never looked better than it did in 'The Time Warrior'. Even in 'The Sontaran Experiment' it wasn't quite as good, but even that was way better than what came later.
I'll be interested to see the new ones properly, but they looked ok from what i could see in the next week teaser.

[Si Hunt]

To be fair, for "The Sontaran Experiment" they had to simplify the mask to avoid killing Kevin Lindsay through heat exhaustion. He died a few months later anyway.

Si.

[WhiteCrow]

To be fair, for "The Sontaran Experiment" they had to simplify the mask to avoid killing Kevin Lindsay through heat exhaustion. He died a few months later anyway.

Si.

Ouch!

[WhiteCrow]

Actually they look a bit better in this still, although they now remind me a bit of a very short, have-a-go aggressive Scouser "you want a piece of me ey-ey-ey?".