Episode 8: They Keep Killing Suzie

[Milky Tears]

Tonight's episode is by Paul Tomalin & Dan McCulloch. It's been getting some good previews/reviews.

Using alien technology to interrogate the victims of a serial killer, Gwen learns that the common link is dangerously close to home. And the resurrection device has a deadly secret of its own.

Where's McCow this week?

[Wayne]

I'm gigging tonight & i'm recording 'The Story of Punk' on ITV4, so i'll have to have to wait until Weds.

[SiHart]

Best episode of the series so far, without a doubt. Gripping.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

Seconded - the show seems to have finally, or suddenly, found its own identity. It flirted with being tasteless, but stayed the right side of the line, and then managed the trick of being genuinely involving, and moving. Even with her death scene having Suzie effectively gloating, it was still very hard to totally blame her for wanting to hang onto life at any cost. A quick mention (because I'll have forgot by tomorrow) for the direction of the 'Gwen & Suzie driving' scenes, which were very well done - as Suzie says "there's a darkness out there" and the picture is the darkness outside the car, it's a perfect example of the image suiting the writing.

Are we to assume, BTW, that Ianto and Jack were going to be getting jiggy wid it (with the stopwatch) or will it turn out to be that they're playing chess, and the stopwatch is in lieu of a chess-clock?

[Milky Tears]

Only Yasmin Bannerman prevented everything else destroying this episode for me. Enough with the ISBN and stopwatches already!!

4.62/10

[Doctor Vendetta]

Anyone think the "darkness out there" will be the end of season Big Bad?

[Jonno]

Another excellent episode, with the show now old enough to delve into its own mythology/continuity by harking back to the events of the very first episode. I remember Lissa stating after the first double-bill that she reckoned Suzie would return as RTD doesn't believe in killing off characters - well, she did return but in a sensible way, and I really can't see her coming back again now!

A very dark episode, including Suzie killing her father to make him suffer. But enough of RTD ramming his atheist agenda down my throat!!!

I like the hints of things to come - notably the "darkness" that's coming for Jack, but also Ianto's throwaway line about there maybe being a second glove... This was a decent episode for him actually, and he's being a bit of an enigma - especially if he is being "jiggy" with Jack...

[Dave Tudor]

I'd have to agree that this was one of the best episodes yet, and also with the consensus that the series is finding its own identity. Tightly plotted and scripted (even if Suzie's 'plan' was a little convoluted), brilliantly directed (James Strong has proven himself quite a find), and well acted, especially Eve Myles (again) and the excellent Indira Varma. I liked Yasmin Bannerman, too, and wonder if hers will become a recurring character.

It posed some intriguing questions, and ably demonstrated how the series can be 'adult' without rsorting to sex and swearing. Torchwood gets better every week.

[Jonno]

I forgot to mention that it was nice to see "Jabe" in the flesh - she's rather attractive too! Hope we see more of her in future episodes - that whole scene with her getting her colleagues around to mock Torchwood reminded me of something like Cracker or Prime Suspect.

[Lord President]

Excellent stuff. Proper grown-up telly.

I love the fact that Suzie was brought back only to be killed off again. I also loved the fact that Jack had no problems plunging the knife into her corpse!

Yasmin Bannerman was great, I hope she returns.

I would love to see Suzie resurrected again next season to become some sort of Master-type recurring villian!

[SiHart]

I agree that the series has finally managed to find a decent way of being dark and adult without resorting to the basics of sex and swearing. This episode was wonderfully dark and gruesome (the back of Suzie's head was a good effect and on screen just long enought to be a yuck moment!) and this episode was particuarly well directed- Andrew mentioned the bit I'd single out in his post above, the driving scene and the mention of the big thing in the dark... Sounds ominous.

I'm glad everyone else thought Ianto and Jack were getting it on, cos that was what crossed our minds as we watched that final scene... Oh my!

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

I think that Jack and Ianto were going for a run. Either that, or something to do with the Doctor's hand. Ooo-er!!!

It's been established that not only did Ianto have a girlfriend, but also that Jack was really annoyed with him for bringing a Cyber-conversion unit into the hub. So quite what they're up to together I don't know.

A fantabulous, grim but also very funny episode. Simon really did wince at the hole in the back of Suzie's head. Just as long as you don't worry about the mechanics of how she was able to talk after shooting herself up through the mouth, it was great!

And while nit-picking, the sudden change from night to day was jarring, even though it really didn't matter. Entirely made up for by 2 mentions of UNIT!

[Paul Clement]

It was definitely a good episode, and darker in many ways than any of the others so far. Like a lot of other people on here, I took the meaning of something approaching in the darkness to be a hint towards the final episode of the season.
What it does, is also make more sense of Everything Changes. Too much happened to quickly in that episode, and there wasn't enough of a motive given for Suzie to start killing people just to learn how to use the glove properly. This episode filled in those missing pieces and more, giving Suzie a real backstory. I loved the venom in her voice when she realised that Gwen was using the Resurrection Glove and her whole reaction to having been replaced.
Oh and I'm glad someone else mentioned the disconcerting moment where it switched from night to day during the car chase, especially straight after Owen had said Gwen only had minutes left.

[Larry]

Agree with everything that's been said so far for me it was the best episode of the series..

[Perry Vale]

Watched it last night, there's been much worse, but I didn't rate it very highly. It had an air of being made up as they went along, story-wise, but still more bad moments than good. "You're kidding?"

A quick mention (because I'll have forgot by tomorrow) for the direction of the 'Gwen & Suzie driving' scenes, which were very well done

I agree with this though.

[Rob McCow]

*pokes Steve with stick to prompt him* What are these bad moments then? The Road Trip seemed a bit random until Gwen explained why she felt sympathetic towards Suzie.

I know what it was! There wasn't enough of the Torchwood SUV I know how you love it. They've had a whole episode based in the Hub - I'm hoping for a whole episode in the SUV!

[Perry Vale]

*pokes Steve with stick to prompt him*

Ouch!

What are these bad moments then?

The slo'mo shot near the beginning, the "You're kidding?" line, the ISBN thrown in bit, the "I'd give her 40 minutes to live" bit followed by the next scene in bright daylight, Gwen's acting, Jack's acting, the 'Blade/Buffy/Angel' clubbing scene.....

Apart from that it was pretty good.

[Mike Saville]

I agree with the leap of faith from reading out poetry to the ISBN number was crass and clumsy for no reason, and that alone marred a near perfect episode for me. Even if they'd said something like 'the override must be something quicker, snappier... ' and tried a couple of other things first and then hit on the ISBN number. It just hammered far too conveniently. Like I say, clumsy.

[Rob McCow]

Perhaps Tosh read Suzie's mind. Now that would be continuity for us!

[Alex]

Ah, sorry sorry sorry in advance...

But I thought this was the worst episode by far in the whole series...I don't know why but it didn't work for me at all, and seemed to rely on a whole series of fairly preposterous leaps of faith for things to take place.

I guess the main issue for me is how did Suzie know that by plunging the knife in to someone's chest and using the glove at the same time would bring them back to life?

In the first episode she was still struggling to keep a fly alive for a short amount of time, and nothing in it suggested she knew she could be reincarnated for good...

And was it just a random gamble on her part that not only would Torchwood try this, but that they'd have someone able to use the glove (ie Gwen) when all the other team members had failed?

Also, how did she have contact with Max to get him to start quoting the phrase which would power down Torchwood? If it was preset, how would she know the exact time it would be needed to be said for her and Gwen to escape and the others to get trapped down there?

And okay, even if Suzie did know what she'd be able to suck the life out of Gwen, (again, even though the first episode doesn't suggest she has any such knowledge at all), why would her head wound suddenly start appearing in Gwen's head? And if Gwen's suddenly bleeding from the back of the head in the hospital, by the time they got to the coast shouldn't she have been bleeding everywhere? And shouldn't there have been some sort of markings around the chin area?

The day in to night thing really jarred as well, as did the horribly cliched Jack arrives just as Gwen and Suzie get to the coastline, despite having been far far behind during Owen's we've only got minutes comment.

Ahhh...There's more I want to pick apart too...but I'm out of time in the net cafe I'm in...




But sorry again about the above rant, I don't like criticising something I know others enjoy. It's just that up till now I'd been really enjoying the last few weeks of Torchwood, but this seemed silly and mishandled...

[Andrew Curnow]

Can I just say, I think you're absolutely right about all those things, Alex. I noticed the sudden appearance of daylight at the end, but didn't really notice or think about the rest of that at all while watching the episode, but you're more or less right. However, the only thing I can say is that it was probably the first episode I just enjoyed watching, without thinking about it. Whether that's laziness, and me letting the production team get away with it, I don't know, but there it is.

I quite like being in the 'don't love it, don't hate it' state of mind with "Torchwood" - it means I quite enjoy watching it for 45/50 minutes a week, but don't worry too much about whether or not it makes sense.

[Paul Monk]

I quite liked it but obviously didn't think as much about it as Alex. If you do then Suzie's plan is a bit flaky.

The slo'mo shot near the beginning

Have to agree with Steve on this. They keep on doing that Reservoir Dogs style shot and its very silly and stupid and doesn't look at all cool!

[Rob McCow]

Hmm, the mechanics of the episode was nonesense, wasn't it?

At least the characterisation papers over the cracks. Just! I still think Suzie should have been a regular for more than one episode though.

[Wayne]

Just watched it. Yes, another great episode, perhaps not my favourite as it seems to be for so many, but definitely impressive, & showing yet further diversification for Torchwood as a show.
Only 3 minor niggles:
1) I thought it took a while to get going, but after 15/20mins it improved radically, & i was hooked.
2) Gwen's sudden tear when she first used the glove. Seemed a bit disingenuous. I could almost hear the director asking for 'tear stick please'.
3) The ISBN number seemed a bit plucked out of thin air/rabbit out of the hat, but i can live with it.
I didn't even notice the night/day thing that everyone seems to be on about!
Overall though, i thought it was a well written episode, with plenty of good drama & tension. The actress who played Susie Costello. She was excellent. Acted just about everyone else off the screen. Shame she never became a 'proper' member of the team. The Gwen/Jack argument about who's to blame for what happened to Susie was a great scene, played very well by Myles & Barrowman. The episode got better & better as it went along; The climactic scenes where they catch up with Gwen & Susie, & Susie is finally killed got really quite exciting!
A second viewing will be in order soon. Yet another fine ep.

[Dave Lewis]

Simply stunning - by far the best episode of the series, and if they can top this in the last four episodes, then there's some absolutely unbelievable episodes to come... next week's looks like an episode of So Haunt Me by comparison.

I've not read anyone else's posts, and I've written the bit I'll use as a quote on the "Rate Torchwood" thread at the beginning for once. So let's see... why was killing Suzie so fantastic?

Well, for the first few minutes, it wasn't. Every week it seems the episode starts either poorly, or in a very pedestrian manner, then either tails off into crappery (Small Worlds) or improves dramatically (pretty much everything else). However, the slow start was just one of several red herrings... the story of the Torchwood-obsessed murderer was deliberately dull because the story wasn't really about him, or his crimes, at all. So it's not really a bad thing at all in retrospect - which leaves me with just two other gripes - the deux ex machina-esque "numbers! Try the ISBN number" resolution to the lockdown in the hub, and the fact that night became day in just a few seconds at the ferry terminal, and well... I've nothing else to complain about whatsoever. Literally everything else was great.

The best writing in the series yet - some of the dialogue, and some of the lines that Suzie had were absolutely stunning. "There's something in the darkness... and it's moving" sent a shiver up my spine just writing it then, let alone hearing Suzie say it. All the stuff about there being nothing after death, and how important life is, was simultaneously sad and moving and beautiful and great and terrible. But there's more - "The resurrection days are over", says Jack. Ianto (Gareth David Lloyd was brilliant this week - the best writing for him yet and he rose to the performance like a big rising thing)'s riposte, "That's the thing about gloves... they always come in a pair"... brilliant. Apart, perhaps, from the "risen mitten"/"stun gun" 'gags', there wasn't a line out of place.

Perhaps the storyline, or the premise rather, was, perhaps a bit extreme; the idea that Suzie knew the glove and its powers and thus planned an elaborate comeback after her own death seems a bit unlikely, but then as she'd gone completely loopy, maybe she assumed she'd be killed at some point and needed to have a way back into 'the light' - not necessarily to kill her father, but to keep on with her general killing/understand the glove spree. The link between Suzie, Gwen, the glove, and the knife was well handled, and I kept thinking, particularly when the two of them were in the car, that it reminded me of Stephen King's "The Dark Half", where the writer's pseudonym comes to life and starts to grow strong while the writer gets progressively weaker. This came to a head (pardon the pun) when Gwen's headache got worse, and she started bleeding... "you're getting shot in the head - slowly". Brilliant!

This was a real ensemble performance, which only enforces my opinion about how crap Small Worlds was. Tosh, Owen, and Ianto, even though they didn't have as much a bearing on the story as Gwen or Suzie, but they weren't reduced to cyphers or saying "bloody hell, what's going on?" - they seemed to fit snugly into a really cohesive whole... and they were well performed to boot - Owen, when he got to Gwen's body, was brilliant, and Tosh, when she sat next to Suzie's recently reanimated corpse in the Hub, genuinely seemed to be squirmingly uncomfortable. Captain Jack got to be all heroic, but also had to eat humble pie in the face of the scoffing PC Plods, and Barrowman got all lascivious when he got to talk about the Captain's exploits with two twin acrobats - and perhaps got to have some fun with Ianto in his office after the final credits as well. But the biggest kudos have to go to
Indira Varma for the finest performance of the week - she was petulant, then she was melancholy, then she was evil, then she was mental... and finally, she was dead... again. It's enough to make you wish she'd never been killed in the first place - or the second place. If they hadn't had to tie up the fact that Gwen had to be saved, it would have been nice to have Suzie out there, somewhere - the face of the oncoming darkness, an evil counterpart to Torchwood. Ho hum, nice idea I suppose.

Anyway, I've gone on too long and I've not mentioned the music yet - brilliant, and what was that tune at the end? - nor the obligatory swearword count (I spotted Owen's "*********", as it were) and I haven't even talked about Mad Max, the great Dickinson poetry, or the fact that Owen has shagged Suzie. He gets around, doesn't he?

Fantastic episode. If I was rating it, I'd give it lots of Captain Jack's bullets riddling Suzie's undying body out of ten. That's a lot.