The Comics Thread

[MacNimon]

It's good to see you contributing to the thread, Jonno. I enjoyed reading that, and I'm looking forward to reading more.

I don't have time to comment much right now, but I'll have more time to spare in the morning so I'll be back with more comments and possibly a few questions (not just for Jonno, but generally anyone who ever reads the thread)...the Captain Britain strip you remember was indeed an original British strip, a fantasy serial which appeared in Hulk Comic and bridged the gap between his original series and his later 1980s rebirth. It was written by Steve Parkhouse and had some great art by John Stokes, iirc. It was reprinted a couple of years back, spread over a couple of volumes in it's rightful chronological place, in Panini's Captain Britain TPBs...they should still be available on Amazon.

Check out comments on page 4 of this thread for more details...


I'm glad to see you're enjoying the Cover Of The Day thread...your comments have been taken on board and may just have influenced the next couple of selections...

[MacNimon]

A few vague thoughts have been going round my head recently regarding comics, and Jonno's post above have brought them to the front of my mind. So if you don't mind, I'm putting a few questions to you regarding the subject...

1. All of us here reading this thread are adults who enjoy comics to one degree or another. It's very rarely that I've met an adult who'll give comics a chance if they didn't read them as a kid, and in my experience people seem to fall into two groups as a result...those who enjoy them and can appreciate them, and those who deride them as "kids stuff" not worth even looking at. Sadly I find that those who deride them often turn out to be the sort of people who's tastes in tv tend to be of the more unimaginative bland fare that makes up much of tv nowadays...they love the makeover shows, reality tv, Jeremy Kyle and the endless soaps etc and aren't interested in anything which actually makes them think a bit...I think that comics are something that you have to first get into in childhood to fully appreciate them as an adult. Would you agree?

2. If you read comics as a kid, what sort of stuff did you enjoy? How have your tastes changed as an adult? Do you still read any of the same titles (or modern versions of old titles) which you once read as a kid, and do you think that the standards or quality have improved over the years? How easy is it to go back to the old stuff after reading new modern versions?

3. How have your comic reading habits changed over the years? Have you constantly read them from childhood, or did you become a lapsed reader at any time only to rediscover them at a later date as an adult? If the latter, what exactly got your attention again to get you back reading them? Or did you discover them as an adult?

4. Many people who read comics today are adults who grew up with them, and the number of comics available in newsagents is only a fraction of what was available in years gone by. Not only that, they're much more expensive and also harder for new readers (kids especially) to get into, given the amount of backstory often needed to enjoy them. Is the comics industry a dying industry because of this, and what can be done to bring in a new generation of readers? Is the comics reading hobby itself becoming a thing of the past? Will future generations ever take to it the way we did?

[Rob McCow]

1. I think that adult readers are put off by most comics, which are still (in Western terms) bif bam kapow superheroes. Watchmen is great, but it's still a superhero comic that works a million times better if you know which heroes are being deconstructed. I think that's what people find off-putting. Comics like Y The Last Man (I think that's right) would probably reach a more adult audience, but they are overshadowed by what are essentially kids' comic book heroes from the 1950's.

2. I probably couldn't read The Beano now and Transformers comic was undoubtedly wretched in any real sense. Though the stories drew me in at the time. Nowadays it's all about the Graphic Novels for me. I want the full story!

3. Binned the lot in my teen years, haven't bought an actual comic since.

4. I totally agree with you. Comics these days are all "Future Collectors' Items!" printed on glossy paper with high quality digital art. Where are the comics of my youth that were printed in black and white on bog paper and cost 20p? They should be the cheapest of treats.

The obvious problems are that a) the distribution costs are so high that you might as well make it glossy and full colour and b) the magazine vendors won't stock it unless it looks nice. Though they sound like excuses to me.

[Nyder]

I'm sorry to say that my comic reading was limited to Jackpot, The Dandy, Topper and reading my cousin's Beano. The nearest I got to superheroes was The Amazing Three in Jackpot :-)

I'll be interested to see how I view these comics now (I'm bracing myself for a shedload of Jackpots in the post!) Will there be some subtle humour that I can appreciate, or will it all be puerile and a load of old tosh? Will I be more interested in the adverts? I shall let you know...

[Jonno]

Just as a postscript to my 70s info, I forgot to mention that for Christmas 1977 I got the Spider-man, Mighty World of Marvel and Incredible Hulk 1978 annuals. I still have the former and latter - all reprint material, the Spiderman one had an old Doc Ock story in which Aunt May played an integral role and a more recent story which revealed how Peter Parker's parents met their demise at the hands of the Red Skull. That was really quite a poignant story with Peter finding it all out by accident.

The Hulk annual had lots of reprints of very early stories, mainly with the Leader and his humanoids.

Not sure why I didn't keep the MWOM annual, all I remember of it was a Luke Cage story in which he got thrown out of a plane at very high altitude, but managed to kind of glide down to earth with his arms spread wide!

Back with more later!

[Rob McCow]

how Peter Parker's parents met their demise at the hands of the Red Skull

Wow... it seems that everyone has killed Peter Parker's parents at one time or another. Or am I getting confused with his Uncle? Is this the same Red Skull that kept annoying Captain America?

[Jonno]

You may be thinking of his Uncle Ben, as faithfully adapted in the first Tobey Maguire film. And yes, that's the same Red Skull!

[Alex]

Nowadays it's all about the Graphic Novels for me. I want the full story!

I'm increasingly like that. Or at the very least I wait until six or seven issues of a comic have been published, read them through in one go, and then wait six months until I've another backlog to catch up with.

[Jonno]

Another addition to my 70s era before starting the 80s. I definitely remember buying Rampage Weekly circa 1976-77. This had The Defenders from the beginning (it started around 1972 in the US) and actually had a whole story (17 pages in those days) per issue so was easier to follow than what often happened with Marvel UK with a 17 page single US issue split into 3 or 4 pages per weekly issue which really broke up the flow of the story.

It also had Nova from the beginning, which was a bit of a rip off of Spidey, with the main character being a high school kid, but it had some cool villains, notably Diamondhead and the Sphinx. I continued to buy both these titles in Africa, albeit both having jumped forward somewhat. In the end, Nova only lasted 25 issues in its original format.

[Jonno]

So, time to move into the 80s which would prove to be my peak decade for comic buying.

For the first 5 months of the decade we were still in Liberia - The Defenders had brought back the original line up of Namor, Doc Strange and Hulk who went off to another world, while Valkyrie and Hellcat were joined by Moondragon and The Wasp for an all female team for a few issues. Hulk himself was approaching his 250th issue and the X-Men were fighting The Hellfire Club.

We came back to the UK in mid May 1980 and lived with my Nan for a few months in Sudbury, Suffolk. The delight here was discovering Martin's Newsagents - there were in fact 2 branches in the town - and in particular discovering Doctor Who Weekly. This was issue 31 - halfway through The Dogs of Doom and just in time for the Daleks. And more than 33 years later, I'm still buying the same publication - astonishing really. In fact, a couple of weeks ago I notched up exactly a third of a century of buying it!

Otherwise, it was on with the Marvels and at around this time the separate Hulk and Spiderman weeklies merged into one comic, which also had the female versions, She Hulk and Spiderwoman included. I think that was largely it for 1980, although Kenny's Cover thread reminded me of Marvel Team Up which began in September 1980 - just as I was beginning secondary school.

Also I was buying Rampage Monthly which had a feature length X-Men, although confusingly this was a couple of years prior to what I had been reading in Africa. Talking of which, my last US issue of X-Men was #133. To my delight, I managed to find #134 and #135 as import issues while at Sudbury in a small newsagent - these issues saw Jean Grey first transform into Dark Phoenix but ended with her on her way back to Earth for a final showdown. I never got #136 and had to wait many years to read it in a "Classic X-Men" reprint - well worth the wait though!

[MacNimon]

My peak buying period was in the late 70s/early 80s while I was still at school/college...it was only after that, still living at home and with no job at the time (1985-86) I gave in to my parents nagging that I was "too old" for them and gradually cut them out of my life. The Marvel UK bit was easy, the cancellation of Captain Britain monthly helped me draw a line under that, but American stuff was harder to escape from, there was just so much good stuff around. I'd pick up some stuff over the years, occasional comics just to see what was going on, but more often graphic novels reprinting old favourites and 'new' stuff which I'd missed before such as Camelot 3000, Frank Miller's Daredevil Born Again saga, Batman seeing Jason Todd's Robin killed off by the Joker...stilll, over the years I missed much more than I ever managed to catch up with. It was only about 8 or 9 years ago (if that) that I found out that Jean Grey had been resurrected in X-Men, and then killed off again, and that Batgirl had been crippled by the Joker.

I still have loads of catching up to do, I've plenty here to read but often it's simply just such a hard choice as to what to read next! An old favourite, something 'new new' (as Marvel & DC both conveniently gave me jumping on points recently) or something 'old new' (ie trying to catch up with the 25 years or so I've missed out on...)

[Jonno]

Just to round off 1980, we moved from my Nan's to a general store in Chatteris, Cambridgeshire in October 1980 - just a couple of issues into DWW becoming DWM. I am a little hazy on the other comics of this period, although the Cover of the Day thread jolted those memories just the other day - Marvel Team Up was definitely one and also Valour which I bought from the beginning - I see this began in November 1980, just one month into our new home and school. So Marvel still ruled the roost for now.

I've literally just today remembered that the Spiderman comic at least (if not the others) got a whole new look circa 1981 with glossy covers, more colour but I'm sure it had less pages overall. This as I recall tied in with the Nicholas Hammond starring TV show being on air, and quite a few of the covers were from the TV show, plus probably some basic behind the scenes articles. With less value for money and dull covers, I have a feeling that this may have precipitated my moving on from Marvel, because I started discovering non-superhero comics in 1981. But that's a story for next week!

Request to Kenny - I appreciate you've done loads of Marvel UK covers recently, but if you can post anything from these TV show Spiderman comics (did it have the word Super in the title as well?) I'd be most grateful! Would also like to see the cover dates and the price to confirm my suspicions!

[MacNimon]

Off the top of my head, Super Spider-Man TV Comic may have been it's title at one point, but it was after my time and I'll have to double check the covers to be sure! It had so many title changes during its life-span! I've got almost a complete set of those Spider-Man Weekly covers (only missing some from the Fraggle Rock era iirc, about 20 missing from 666 issues. Covers only, I hasten to add!), Jonno which I'd prepared for the old Marvel UK thread which I never completed. I'll try to find and upload them over the weekend.

[MacNimon]

I've just been checking out those covers Jonno, and have found out that I've got the Marvel In The UK thread all prepared up until covers dated 10th March 1982, with only a handful of early 80s covers missing along the way. So look for those covers appearing in context with what else was available at the time next week in that thread...I'll just skip 4-5 years of covers then hopefully go back to those skipped at some time in the future!

[MacNimon]

Any fans of the 90s range of Marvel UK comics which were big for a short period during the 90s before they imploded? If so, no doubt you'll be looking forward to 2014's Revolutionary War, an 8-part series which sees the return of many of the characters from the period, such as Captain Britain, Deaths Head (x2!), Motormouth, Warheads, Dark Angel etc.

More details here, from a panel at the London Film & Comic Convention.

REVOLUTIONARY WAR PANEL - OCTOBER 2013

“It’s a buddy movie… It couldn’t be more Death’s Head”

I was lucky enough to attend the REVOLUTIONARY WAR panel on Saturday which revealed a lot about the upcoming (January 2014) revival of the GENESIS 92 Marvel UK sub-universe.

There were a lot of announcements that - as far as I can tell - haven't seen print before so I've included as many as I can here. As they don't seem to have surfaced anywhere else over the weekend, I'm claiming (possibly for the only time ever!) an *exclusive* for STARLOGGED. Hurrah!

Held at the London Film and Comic Con (Winter) at Olympia on Saturday 5 October 2013.

Chaired by Mike Conroy.

THE PANEL: Andy Lanning, Alan Cowsill and Glenn Dakin. (Pictured left-to-right with Conroy propping-up the speaker on the far left)

===========================================

Andy and Alan are the key writers of the wraparound bookends (Alpha and Omega) and overseeing the entire project. The US editor is Steve Wacker.

Wacker wants to retain the UK feel of the original.

Death’s Head II sold 500, 000 to 800,000 copies of the first issue in 1992.

Glenn Dakin to write the MOTORMOUTH one-shot.

An undefined period of time has passed since the original sub-universe and MyS-TECH have been defeated. In a parallel with the real events at M-UK, S.H.I.E.L.D have crossed the Atlantic, cherry-picked the heroes they wanted to work with and shutdown the rest.

The series will officially be part of US continuity because it will be produced by the US operation.

The eight books will be ALPHA and OMEGA prolog and epilog by Lanning and Cowshill, Motormouth by Dakin, Warheads by Lanning and Cowsill, Death’s Head by Lanning and Cowsill, Dark Angel by Kieron Gillen, Knights of Pendragon by Rob Williams, Super Soldiers by Rob Williams.

Gary Erskine will return to Warheads.

Nick Roche to draw Death’s Head.

Richard Elson to draw the Alpha and Omega issues.

Mark Brooks will provide the main covers for the series. Each issue (including Alpha and Omega?) will also have alternate covers. Dave Gibbons will draw a Super Soldiers cover. Liam Sharp will do a Death’s Head cover.

Dave Gibbons was slated to do a project for Marvel UK during the Genesis 92 period.

Marvel US took a year to decide to run with the project. It was only possible because there was a hole in the publishing schedule.

Lanning says Marvel US have no expectations about the project so they have more freedom to be creative.

Whacker was familiar with Death’s Head but less so with the other characters.

The writers of each book have collaborated on the overall direction of the limited series. Dakin: “I have a lot of freedom”.

If the series is a success, Marvel may revisit the characters (and Marvel UK continuity dating back to the seventies) again.

Lanning thinks the series is unrelated to any need to bring the characters back into print to renew copyright.

Lanning: “Sales don’t have to be spectacular” for Marvel to be motivated to reprint the original material.

Plasmer was reprinted in trade paperback form… in Spain!

Nick Fury, S.H.I.E.L.D, Captain Britain and MI-13 will appear.

Both Death’s Head incarnations will appear: “It’s a buddy movie… It couldn’t be more Death’s Head”

[MacNimon]

Also, on the same subject...

http://downthetubes.net/?p=12390

The London Film and Comic Con featured two Marvel UK-related panels, the first a general celebration of the company’s US comics projects such as Death’s Head II and Warheads, attended by Stephen Baskerville, Alan Cowsill, John Freeman, Simon Furman, Andy Lanning, Geoff Senior and Steve White. We covered some of that in our earlier report.

The second panel, reported extensively by Jon Carpenter on Starlogged, focused more on the revival of those characters in next year’s limited series Revolutionary War, the brainchild of Andy Lanning and Alan Cowsill.

The pair broke the news that both Death’s Head characters will feature, in a special team up that will also see appearances by all the major Marvel UK characters created back in the 1990s

“It’s a buddy movie… It couldn’t be more Death’s Head,” said Andy.

Andy and Alan are the writers on the opening and closing books of the series (titled Alpha and Omega), to be drawn by Richard Elson, and the project will be edited by Stephen Wacker, who has said he wants to retain the UK feel of the original.
Setting the scene for the new series, Andy explained that an undefined period of time has passed since the original sub-universe and the heroes main protagonist in the original stories, the mysterious Illuminati-styled MyS-TECH organisation, have been defeated.
In a parallel with the real world events at Marvel UK following the company’s collapse and absorption by Panini, S.H.I.E.L.D have crossed the Atlantic and Nick Fury has cherry-picked the heroes he wants to work with – such as Captain Britain and MI-13 – and S.H.I.E.L.D has shut down the rest.
Since the weekend, Andy has told me the running order for the books between Alpha and Omega has not been confirmed (but will probably be after New York Comic Con). But the creators on the other individual books are Glenn Dakin on Motormouth (who wrote issues of the original series) and Lanning and Cowsill on Warheads (drawn by Gary Erskine, who drew the original series first two issues and designed the look of the book).
Andy will also write Death’s Head, which will be drawn by Nick Roche, while Dark Angel will be written by Iron Man scribe Kieron Gillen and Knights of Pendragon and Super Soldiers by 2000AD writer Rob Williams.
Mark Brooks will provide the main covers for the series but each issue will also have alternate covers with Dave Gibbons drawing the Super Soldiers cover and Liam Sharp drawing a Death’s Head cover.
Revolutionary War teaser from Marvel ComicsAndy and Alan say they’ve been given free rein on the project, working with the other writers involved on its overall direction.
If the series is a success, Andy hopes Marvel may revisit the characters (and look again at Marvel UK continuity, which dates back to the 1970s.
He also hinted that reprints of the original material might be on the cards.
At the celebration panel, Steve White, now Senior Editor at Titan Comics, expressed his hope for a fuller revivals of Knights of Pendragon, while artist Stephen Baskerville suggested Gene Dogs, which was originally written by John Freeman and drawn by Dave Taylor.

[MacNimon]

What have you guys been reading recently, and is there anything you're looking forward to in the near future?

This looks good: City On The Edge Of Forever

Star Trek: Harlan Ellison®’s City on the Edge of Forever #1 (of 5), written by Harlan Ellison, Scott Tipton & David Tipton, with art by J.K. Woodward and a cover by Juan Ortiz. As previously reported on StarTrek.com, Star Trek: Harlan Ellison®’s City on the Edge of Forever is a visual presentation of the much-discussed, unrevised, unadulterated version of Harlan Ellison’s Star Trek teleplay script, “The City on the Edge of Forever.” Ellison won a Hugo and Writer’s Guild of America Award for his teleplay, but in June, several decades after the episode aired, fans will finally be able to see the story as Ellison originally intended.

[Alex]

Now Mette's got a job I've found myself with more time on my hands, and have been catching up on my comics backlog, which is all rather huge, but I'm really loving getting back in to it.

The Walking Dead - I do enjoy this, but it also disappoints a lot of the time. There was a huge plot line with Negan (aka The Governor Mark 2) which built and built but then ended with a damp squib, and now there's a long plot line where they're rebuilding society, which is interesting at times but way way too soapy at others. Still, I'm in this for the long haul, unless it gets really bad.

Animal Man - I really love this, it's a worthy successor to Grant Morrison's run in the 90s, and I don't say that lightly, as Morrison's 26 issues on the title are some of my favourite comics that I've ever read. Jeff Lemire's a superb writer, and he really captures the humanity of Buddy Baker, along with the importance of family to him. I've minor complaints - Steve Pugh left the title towards the end which was a real shame as his art work was stunning, and Buddy's (possible) fate frustrated, but there's no reason why that couldn't be changed in the longterm. But the worst thing was that it ended with issue 29, presumably due to poor sales, which is a horrible shame given how great it was, but also how weak I find a lot of the DC's new 52 comics. Though I've not read many of them recently, so should give them a second try. Either way I'd recommend this to everyone as it really was a superb read.

Edit: Huh, turns out I was wrong, and it was the writer Jeff Lemire who decided to call it a day, despite okay sales, and then have Animal Man as a member of the Justice League title he's writing. Which I've mixed feelings about, the original run became all a bit poor after Morrison stopped writing it, but I'd like to have seen someone else given a shot. Still, will have to pick up the JL comic just to see how Buddy works out in it.

Sex Criminals - A really great and smart and very funny comic, about two people who have the power to stop time when they orgasm. Sounds awful I know, but the way it's done is really interesting and enjoyable.

Obtained, but yet to be read:
Buffy Season 10
Angel and Faith Season 10
The Manhattan Project
Rachel Rising
Justice League Dark
Trillium
Five Ghosts
Fatale
Saucer Country
Mind MGMT
Chew
Stormwatch
Invincible
Fables
Morning Glories
American Vampire
I Zombie
Swamp Thing
Batman
Justice League Dark
xombi

So expect more random ramblings soon.

[Stuart Wallis]

So expect more random ramblings soon.

No change there then.

[Alex]

I like to think I'm nothing if not reliable!

[Stuart Wallis]

There's no answer to that!

[Alex]

I've been reading Marvel's new Star Wars comics this week and they're surprisingly great. They begin straight after the events of A New Hope and see our heroes attempt to destroy an enormous weapons base, only for Darth Vader to make an unexpected appearance. The art is superb and captures the characters brilliantly but they're also really well written and a lot of fun in general.

They've also given Vader his own comic where he has to redeem himself after disappointing the Emperor when the Death Star was destroyed, and that's been pretty great too. The only downside is that it references the prequel trilogy from time to time which really diminishes the character for me, but it's only an occasional thing and not enough to spoil the series.

[MacNimon]

I've got a batch of those new Star Wars comics, although I haven't read any of them yet (not enough time in the day to fit everything in!!!) I agree with you on the artwork though, Alex, it's great isn't it? That's the big thing to get right...it's easy to read a (reasonably) poorly written comic if it has decent art - although I'm not suggesting for a minute that these are poorly written! - while one with a great story can be a slog to get through if an artist has a style which you just don't like. I'm really looking forward to reading these, though...I have enough of them built up now to have a good run at them.

I used to love the old Marvel Star Wars comics back in the late 70s/early 80s (despite Carmine Infantino's artwork and his characters not looking much like their silver screen counterparts) but things greatly improved when veteran artist Al Williamson took over on The Empire Strikes Back. These were great fun, but I'd drifted away by the time Dark Horse claimed the license and produced some highly-rated stuff which I've never yet read. It's looking though as if I'll be skipping the DH stuff at the moment and try out the current Marvel run first.

What else have you been reading recently? Any recommendations? I'm currently working my way through DH's Conan series, now midway through the Conan The Cimmerian storyline. A great story by Tim Truman fleshing out Robert E Howard's original 1930s story Black Colossus, with some fantastic art by Tomas Giorello. Also I've made a start on Frank Hampson's original 1950s Dan Dare stories from Eagle, with the plan of comparing all the different versions of the character from Eagle - old and new -, 2000AD and elsewhere...it'll be interesting to compare Hampson's version with the later versions, particularly versions by Grant Morrison and Garth Eniss which I've never read before. I'm not even sure where these two versions were originally published, but I'll find out...

Other things bubbling under for me are Kong Of Skull Island (I wonder if the forthcoming film has any connection?), which looks great as well. Like Star Wars I haven't read any yet but the art's great and I'm just building up enough to get a good run at it. I got caught out last year with a great series called Monster World which I read as each issue was released...I was loving it, but I got fed up waiting for issue 4 and almost a year later I still haven't read it. I'll have to search and see if the series was ever completed...I'd certainly recommend it if the story was ever completed...

And Alex, going back a few posts, how did things work out with Buddy and the Justice League? I'd check it out but I'm currently stuck in a dual late 80s/early 90s DC timeline catching up with Byrne-era Superman and the 5 years later version when Lois finds out Clark is Superman, along with the the early Wally West Flash and post-Crisis rebooted Wonder Woman as well. I've still to check out any Batman from this era yet, though (on a regular reading basis, at any rate...I'm long familiar with the likes of A Death in The Family and Killing Joke, from roughly the same period iirc)

Edited to add: a quick search shows that the fourth and final issue of Monster Island was finally released after I'd given up (actually only a 2 month wait but too long for me!) I'll have to go back and re-read the first 3 issues now before completing the story...