Rate And Discuss 4.13: Journey's End

[Jon Masters]

I do believe that I have just seen the best season closer since the series came back.

Yes, well said Tim - glad you enjoyed it. That's the joy of PS - everyone can say what they really think.

at the fear of being lynched

Oh, I think I'll be nearer the front of the queue that you, but

That's the joy of PS - everyone can say what they really think.

[Paul Clement]

With crap like Love and Monsters, Time and the Rani and Paradise Towers, I really don't understand how you can say it's the worst ever.

The latter two are poor, but Love & Monsters is one of the best stories the new series has come up with.

[Jon Masters]

Poppycock!

With crap like Love and Monsters, Time and the Rani and Paradise Towers, I really don't understand how you can say it's the worst ever.

Read my post again - none of those three stories are from this season, season finales or Dalek stories !

At least the Armageddon Factor made sense

[Dirk Gently]

Personally I don't think it was a patch on Parting of the Ways...

That's the one it's battling with for number one.

...but Love & Monsters is one of the best stories the new series has come up with.

You have your opinion on that but I personally think it's one of the poorer ones.

[Wayne]

Well at least it wasn't as bad as last year's finale! I'm quite relieved!

Part of me wants to give a 3/10 (so i did employ the anti-squee vote) for being such a load of old bollocks, but i did enjoy the Daleks & Davros' scenes a lot. Also, the downbeat ending with Donna was actually a breath of fresh air after all that expected mush that preceded it. Bernie Cribbins did himself proud again, but once more it was mostly saved for me (like virtually the rest of the season) by a great performance from Catherine Tate. Her David Tennant impression was a great characature.
All in all, i'd be willing to give it 6/10 if you treat it in a no brainer fairground ride sense, but underneath it was a bit pants really. I'm beginning to wonder if i'm finally growing out of Dr Who. The only magic in it these days are RTD's rabbit out the hat ways of dealing with things.
You know you don't love it anymore once you realize that you don't really care whether it's any good or not....... That's life i guess.

[Paul Clement]

That's the one it's battling with for number one.

It seems to me that with each series, RTD has been trying to top what he managed to do with Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways. The more he tried, the more he failed. IMHO of course.

[Wayne]

It seems to me that with each series, RTD has been trying to top what he managed to do with Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways. The more he tried, the more he failed. IMHO of course.

Totally.

[Paul Clement]

I'm beginning to wonder if i'm finally growing out of Dr Who. The only magic in it these days are RTD's rabbit out the hat ways of dealing with things.
You know you don't love it anymore once you realize that you don't really care whether it's any good or not....... That's life i guess.

It could be that this season generally hasn't been all that good. I'd rate it as lower than any of the previous new series seasons, and after a great second season, the last two seasons, for me at least, have had the odd great episode amongst some average or relatively poor ones.

[Matthew T]

As with Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways and Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, the first half of the story instantly becomes one of my favourite ever episodes, whilst the second fails to live up to the promise.

That's not to say I didn't love this, because I did, but there were things I didn't like whereas there was NOTHING I didn't like about last week/BW/AOG.

Best bits: Jackie! K9! Gita from EastEnders is exterminated! Catherine Tate's Tennant impression. Davros!

I liked the resolution and was relieved it wasn't a "flick a switch" and everything's reversed scenario.

I wanted more scenes I suppose you'd call "padding" where the daleks stalk and kill!

It may sound bloodthirsty but I wish Donna had actually died at the end, rather than just lost her memory. She's been fantastic but I'm a sucker for drama.

And I usually love the slushy bits but the Doctor's double staying behind for a life with Rose was a slushy bit TOO FAR!

My niggles are minor though really, and I was engrossed the whole way through. I gave 9/10.

Oh and I knew INSTANTLY that there would be moaning about how quickly the cliffhanger was sidestepped, but it didn't bother me at all, I didn't want the Doctor to be out of action for most of the episode! And at least the quick resolution had consequences that ran through the episode and led to the conclusion.

[Andrew Curnow]

For various reasons (Claudia's away with school this weekend, Zel's not feeling 100% so was in bed) this was the first episode since the series came back in 2005 that I've found myself watching alone. So maybe I was already feeling a little melancholy before it started, and ready to be moved.

But whatever the reason, although objectively I can see there are probably lots of faults with it, just sat there watching it as all-new Who, I really, really, really enjoyed it. When it was trying to get me on the edge of my seat it did (after being under-used last week, the performance of Davros was absolutely superb); when it was trying to make me laugh it did (Oi Spaceboy; Oi Earth girl); and when it was trying to move me it damn well did that too - I found the whole last five minutes, from the moment the Doctor appeared on the doorstep with the unconscious Donna, through to Wilf's farewell, so unbearably sad that I was genuinely in tears throughout. Oh, and when it was trying to make me punch the air like a giddy fanboy it did that too - when the Earth was being towed I just sat back and laughed at what an absurdly wonderful programme Doctor Who is. And when K9 appeared I punched the air and thought of Si Hart almost certainly doing the same!!!

I might well watch it again some time and find it disappointing, but for tonight, I was able to be swept up in the wonder and joy and excitement of it all - which extends even to the post-credit trailer for Christmas. I had avoided any hints about the already-filmed Christmas special, so that last moment reveal of the Cybermen ended, for me, a sweepingly wonderful 65 minutes.

[Paul Clement]

It may sound bloodthirsty but I wish Donna had actually died at the end, rather than just lost her memory. She's been fantastic but I'm a sucker for drama.

I'm not sure I would have wanted her killed at the end, but I would have liked her to have been able to retain some memories of her time with the Doctor though.

[Milky Tears]

You know it's a quality episode if Paul and Jon don't rate it.

9/10


Knock it down to 3/10 if Nathan or Perry Vale spurt all over it.

Gita dying and Cribbbbbbinnnnnnnn'sssss'ssssssss' header were the highlights of the season for me.

[Alex]

It could be that this season generally hasn't been all that good. I'd rate it as lower than any of the previous new series seasons, and after a great second season, the last two seasons, for me at least, have had the odd great episode amongst some average or relatively poor ones.

I generally liked this fourth series, but most episode's scored a 7 or 8 for me, and there was a distinct lack of stand out episodes as there had been in previous years. And I feel this year lost it's edge in managing to surprise the audience in the way it had previously, which is a shame, though at the same time there weren't any episodes which were truly dodgy as there had been in seasons 1 - 3.

I'm still really optimistic about the future of the show though, I think RTD has left at just the right time, and can't wait to see the Moffat era.

[Wayne]

It could be that this season generally hasn't been all that good. I'd rate it as lower than any of the previous new series seasons, and after a great second season, the last two seasons, for me at least, have had the odd great episode amongst some average or relatively poor ones.

I know what you're saying, & without going into which seasons/episodes i prefer, i agree with you in a general sense. It certainly has felt 'more of the same' overall for me this season in particular.
I think my comment was perhaps more a reaction to the fact that most (if not all) people on here just seem to be seeing it through a special squee filter or something! It makes you think, 'It must be just me.'

[Martin Curnow]

10/10 even 20/10 if I could. RTD has had his knockers in the past and, for sure, some of his episodes aren't the best (but then think about how much creative input he has had to put into the series over the past 4 years) but I find it hard to understand how anyone could not have loved every last second of that episode.

The threefold man - 2 ten Drs and Doctor/Donna - brill.

The new Doctor being grown naked - a jokey couple of lines but of course he would have been starkers wouldn't he.

The gang in the TARDIS flying - not you Jackie.

Donna pleading not to be taken back to who she was.

Wilf's last speech to the Doctor.

Pure, pure, pure,pure gold.

[Dino]

Daleks speaking German!
D.A.L.E.K.S. S.P.E.A.K.I.N.G. G.E.R.M.A.N.!!!
That's it! TV Highlight of the weeeeek!

[Lord President]

Ipeople on here just seem to be seeing it through a special squee filter or something!

You know Wayne, if we were all the same, Caves of Androzani would be being repeated every week ad infinitum!

I loved it, you didn't! It's what keeps DW fresh!

[Andrew Curnow]

Oh yes, I'd quite forgotten that - Extermenieren!!!

[Alex]

I think my comment was perhaps more a reaction to the fact that most (if not all) people on here just seem to be seeing it through a special squee filter or something! It makes you think, 'It must be just me.'

I think it comes down to so many factors though, based on what a person might want and / or expect from a programme, what parts of Who you love the most and whether this new series contains them, whether or not you feel an actor or an actress is suited to a role, how forgiving you are when it comes to it as it been a part of your life for a long time, and so many other things as well.

[Jon Masters]

You know it's a quality episode if Paul and Jon don't rate it.

9/10

Thanks goodness for that - I thought I was being harsh, but if the Milky Fool rates it so highly it must be the fanboy-squee-blubbing-snogging-Roselovin' mess that I thought it was

[Wayne]

Oh yes, I'd quite forgotten that - Extermenieren!!!

Does anyone speak german?
2 different on-line translators bring up the translation of 'exterminate' as "ausrotten".
I wonder if they changed it so that it was still recognisable to the English?

[shada pavlova]

well, the doctor who website does offer a translation to all the german bits.

Doctor Who>Episodes>13: Journey's End>Features>Fact File,

then scroll down until you find it (it's near the bottom).

[Wayne]

I think it comes down to so many factors though, based on what a person might want and / or expect from a programme, what parts of Who you love the most and whether this new series contains them, whether or not you feel an actor or an actress is suited to a role, how forgiving you are when it comes to it as it been a part of your life for a long time, and so many other things as well.

Very true of course. Although i wouldn't say it's about the new series as a whole, because over the 4 seasons i've been more into it than not into it.
I just think that there's been more & more repetition of overall themes as time has gone on. To me it really has started to feel predictable & samey, especially over this season, & especially in the finales. I can't quite get rid of the feeling that's grown over the last 12/18 months that RTD has just been trying too hard to be Joss Whedon*, but making a really clumsy job of it.
Maybe Moffatt with bring a fresh approach.

* I'm ready for the Milky blasting.

[MacNimon]

Easily Tennants best finale. Not a patch on TPOTW, though. And at least RTD has brought closure to some characters stories, so there's no need to revisit Rose and/or Donna, though. I've got a feeling that Martha will be a recurring character in the future, though.

Fun. Total nonsense, but fun. 8/10.

[Paul Clement]

Very true of course. Although i wouldn't say it's about the new series as a whole, because over the 4 seasons i've been more into it than not into it.
I just think that there's been more & more repetition of overall themes as time has gone on. To me it really has started to feel predictable & samey, especially over this season, & especially in the finales. I can't quite get rid of the feeling that's grown over the last 12/18 months that RTD has just been trying too hard to be Joss Whedon*, but making a really clumsy job of it.
Maybe Moffatt with bring a fresh approach.

I know exactl what you mean, Wayne. It seems like each season has had a formula to it. When you look at this season, the parrallels with previous season stories are there far too often a la Unicorn and The Wasp and Shakespeare Code. In fact Unicorn and the Wasp also has a few elements of Tooth and Claw style dialogue thrown in too.