BIG continuity error!

[shada pavlova]

Teeheehee...I just noticed something!

In Turn Left, the Doctor dies during what should be The Runaway Bride. Therefore, the Doctor and Martha never defeated the Daleks in New York in 1930, so why haven't they conquered the Earth by Donna's time?

Discuss.

[Andrew Curnow]

There could be any number of reasons - my own favourite is that without having the Doctor to natter to, Dalek Sec's newfound humanity didn't become apparent to the other three Daleks until much later on. By the time they discovered that he had turned 'traitor' Dalek Sec had managed to put a spanner in the works in such a way that the human Daleks were more human than Dalek. Much as in the 'real' story then, Sec would be exterminated by the others, the human Daleks would turn on the Cult of Skaro, and Caan would be the only one to escape.

Easy. Next!

[SiHart]

I reckon that they forgot that solar flares wouldn't really work at night.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

[Rob McCow]

Perhaps we'd have been spared shop shelves lined with Laszlo Pigman toys?

OK - how about...

How come that Van Statten and everyone on his base has never heard of a Dalek in the episode 'Dalek' when planet Earth was stolen by Daleks in 'The Stolen Earth'* and everyone was rounded up by Daleks who declared 'I AM A DALEK!'?


*(grief, it's a bugger to remember what happens in an episode from it's title isn't it?)

[shada pavlova]

There could be any number of reasons - my own favourite is that without having the Doctor to natter to, Dalek Sec's newfound humanity didn't become apparent to the other three Daleks until much later on. By the time they discovered that he had turned 'traitor' Dalek Sec had managed to put a spanner in the works in such a way that the human Daleks were more human than Dalek. Much as in the 'real' story then, Sec would be exterminated by the others, the human Daleks would turn on the Cult of Skaro, and Caan would be the only one to escape.

That's a very good reason.

[Andrew Curnow]

How come that Van Statten and everyone on his base has never heard of a Dalek in the episode 'Dalek' when planet Earth was stolen by Daleks in 'The Stolen Earth'* and everyone was rounded up by Daleks who declared 'I AM A DALEK!'?

The glib answer would be that it's further proof of how terribly insular America is. They don't report much in the way of world news, on the grounds that all the important stuff tends to happen to them!

Conversely..... I don't know, unless anybody can make a convincing case for the 'present day' episodes 12 & 13 actually being set a little in the future; say late 2012, and therefore post-Dalek?

Alternatively, with my anorak firmly zipped up - in the Doctor's timeline, Dalek happened at a time when he still 'knew' that Harriet Jones would usher in a new golden age. A few months later (in his own timeline) he 'deposed' her, thus changing that future. So maybe in fact the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek took place no longer exists; and conversely the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek did take place is one where there was no Mister Saxon, and also (for whatever reason) no Earth stolen & conquered by Metaltrons. Er, sorry, Daleks. Doesn't the ninth Doctor say something about things being "constantly in flux" at some point - that would apply here, so only he and Rose would remember what happened in Utah because, for the rest of the 'real' world, it never happened.

I should get out more shouldn't I?

Next!

[Andrew Curnow]

That's a very good reason.

Thank you! At the very least I like to think it's a bit better than some nonsense about a UNIT time squad as briefly considered by RTD...

[shada pavlova]

The glib answer would be that it's further proof of how terribly insular America is. They don't report much in the way of world news, on the grounds that all the important stuff tends to happen to them!

Conversely..... I don't know, unless anybody can make a convincing case for the 'present day' episodes 12 & 13 actually being set a little in the future; say late 2012, and therefore post-Dalek?

Alternatively, with my anorak firmly zipped up - in the Doctor's timeline, Dalek happened at a time when he still 'knew' that Harriet Jones would usher in a new golden age. A few months later (in his own timeline) he 'deposed' her, thus changing that future. So maybe in fact the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek took place no longer exists; and conversely the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek did take place is one where there was no Mister Saxon, and also (for whatever reason) no Earth stolen & conquered by Metaltrons. Er, sorry, Daleks. Doesn't the ninth Doctor say something about things being "constantly in flux" at some point - that would apply here, so only he and Rose would remember what happened in Utah because, for the rest of the 'real' world, it never happened.

That's another very good explanation.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I remember there was one story that seemed to have more than it's fair share of continuity errors. I forget which one it was, but I seem to recall the Doctor was suddenly claiming to be half-human, and the TARDIS was suddenly keyed to human physiology, rather than to Timelord pysiology. Oh and it had the Eye of Harmony actually inside it rather than on Gallifrey. Oh and I think the Master was in it, but he was suddenly a jelly-snake. And none of it really made any sense. And I think the TARDIS console had lips and kept rapping. I think it was some sort of horrible dream.

[Logo Polish]

The glib answer would be that it's further proof of how terribly insular America is. They don't report much in the way of world news, on the grounds that all the important stuff tends to happen to them!

Conversely..... I don't know, unless anybody can make a convincing case for the 'present day' episodes 12 & 13 actually being set a little in the future; say late 2012, and therefore post-Dalek?

Alternatively, with my anorak firmly zipped up - in the Doctor's timeline, Dalek happened at a time when he still 'knew' that Harriet Jones would usher in a new golden age. A few months later (in his own timeline) he 'deposed' her, thus changing that future. So maybe in fact the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek took place no longer exists; and conversely the 'universe' in which the events of Dalek did take place is one where there was no Mister Saxon, and also (for whatever reason) no Earth stolen & conquered by Metaltrons. Er, sorry, Daleks. Doesn't the ninth Doctor say something about things being "constantly in flux" at some point - that would apply here, so only he and Rose would remember what happened in Utah because, for the rest of the 'real' world, it never happened.

I should get out more shouldn't I?

Next!

Following on from that, if 'Dalek' now hasn't happened in the way it did, maybe Adam never joined the Doctor in that story. Maybe the whole business of him having the implant/operation has been "over-written" in the same way, and he's been able to live a normal life after all.

[shada pavlova]

Alright then, I've just thought of something else. In relation to my opening comment, if as Andrew Curnow said, the Daleks were somehow scuppered in 1930, why didn't the Carrionites invade successfully in 1599? And more to the point, if the entire Cult of Skaro was destroyed in 1930, then Dalek Caan didn't temporally shift himself into the time War, so never rescued Davros, so in the parallel world, HOW CAN THE STARS BE GOING OUT?

[Dirk Gently]

Because there was another Dalek Caan in the parallel Universe! In fact there would be almost as many Dalek Caan's as there would be Universes.

[Andrew Curnow]

Ah, I did say that Dalek Caan escaped - pay attention there! He would have trundled to safety while the other two Daleks (whose names escape me) were being finished off by the dalekised humans.

And no, I don't think 'dalekised' is a word.

[Andrew Curnow]

As for the Carrionite conundrum...

Not as easy to justify this, but what about the architect. In the story as transmitted, the Doctor & co go to visit him in Bedlam, at which point one of the Carrionites turns up and kills the architect (again, name escapes me).

So it follows that if the Doctor never arrived there would be no reason for the architect to be killed by the Carrionites. Somehow, as the moment of Carrionite triumph came close, perhaps the architect's mind became clear and he knew that he had to destroy his creation to prevent the end of the world. (Maybe Shakespeare visited him that day, and his presence sparked a recovery for the architect, who knows?) If it was before the Carrionites had begun to emerge, then presumably just destroying the theatre (or partly destroying it) would be enough to foil their plan, and therefore nobody would need to know enough about the creatures to know they had to devise some words of power to despatch them at the last minute.

Will that sufficeth?

[shada pavlova]

Okay, what about the Pyroviles?

[Andrew Curnow]

Well there's any number of possibilities, surely. The Doctor obviously isn't there to confront Lucius, so anything from then on really would be different. The sisterhood's role in events might be different, Quintus might have broken into Lucius' house and smashed up the energy converter tablets. Or maybe the Pyroviles accidentally triggered Vesuvius themselves by excessive use of the energy converter.

Or maybe - since Evelina (or possibly Lucius) mentions (in the episode as transmitted) that "there is something on your back" that would suggest that the prophets of Pompeii can see alternative realities as well as the future of this one. In the absence, then, of the Doctor and Donna, maybe Evelina 'saw' what needed to happen and followed her 'vision' so as to destroy Pompeii & the Pyroviles.

Also, don't forget that even in the 'Doctorless' reality, Rose still existed - maybe her & her UNIT cohorts were involved in going back in time via the TARDIS 'n' mirrors knock-up?

[Rob McCow]

Nah - with the Pompeii thing, I reckon the cataclysm pulled the first Doctor's TARDIS off course and he sorted out with Ian, Vicki and Barbara rather than having the adventure we saw in 'The Romans'.
"My dear Chastiserton, we must stop the Pirate... I mean Pyroviles. Yes! They've GOT TO BE SCHTOPPED!"

[shada pavlova]

Fine then...what about the Vespiform?

It would have committed dastardly and complicated murders of everybody on earth!

[Rob McCow]

Yes. The whole planet versus one big wasp.

If you're backing the wasp in that fight, you're a bigger fool than even the first Doctor thought you were!

[shada pavlova]

Bear in mind this was 1926. There weren't any nuclear missiles to fire at the Vespiform or anything (unless you were Torchwood).

Fine then...what about the Zygon Invasion of 1910?

[Dirk Gently]

What invasion of 1910?

[shada pavlova]

ZYGON invasion of 1910!

Oh, for god's sake...http://www.drwhoguide.com/whobb913.htm

Don't you people read books?

[Dirk Gently]

Well this is the forum for discussing the new series & not books!

Yes, I read books. And I talk about them in the appropriate forum.

Perhaps you should ask your question in the books forum?

[Andrew Curnow]

I hesitate to open the Canon Can of Worms, but...

Anyway, there's clearly perfectly reasonable, or at least plausible, explanations for how the world managed to scrape through without the Doctor on all these occasions.

Besides, I think calling a handful of Zygons flapping about the highlands an invasion is over-stating it rather. Hostile picnic maybe.