Football 2008-09

[Pip Madeley]

But it is a different trophy, it's a different league

[Captain Tancredi]

It very much seems to depend on who you're talking to about both the Premier League and the Champions League as to how much they're considered to be continuations of the previous competitions. Look at it one way and Liverpool are chasing United, look at it the other and the positions are reversed.

The fact that Nottingham Forest won back to back European Cups and have been playing Championship and League One football for as long as the Champions League has been in existence is interesting in the light of United (or anybody else's) failure to achieve the same feat in recent years.

[Jonno]

At the risk of upsetting Pip and Lissa, I'd argue that it was tougher to win the league in "the old days" - look at it now, and you've got "The Big Four" who have finished in the top 4 for the last 4 (I think) seasons with only Everton managing to break in for a season 4 or 5 years ago, and Spurs almost making it shortly afterwards. Indeed, we've had exactly the same Top 6 in the same positions this season as last season. It's all too predictable now.

As is the Champions League - with the convoluted draws and seeding systems favouring the big clubs and getting the same old pairings every season. It was much better as a knockout system with clubs unseeded and only the top club from each country taking part. But that seems like so long ago.

It seems to me that Man U were found wanting in the really big games and they didn't fare well against the rest of the Top 4 in the league. But to give them their due, they consistently beat the lower clubs, somthing that Liverpool in particular still struggle with.

[Pip Madeley]

Nice to see Everton starting off so well, but Chelsea have dominated the latter part of the first half - I can see them getting a second goal soon.

[Jonno]

Yup!

Bad luck Dave - still, at least Everton made history with the fastest Cup Final goal of all time! The problem with football is that 1-0 is rarely enough, especially so early in a game!

So, a couple of World Cup qualifiers to come in the next couple of weeks and then that's it until August!

[Captain Tancredi]

As is the Champions League - with the convoluted draws and seeding systems favouring the big clubs and getting the same old pairings every season. It was much better as a knockout system with clubs unseeded and only the top club from each country taking part. But that seems like so long ago.

The Champions League is a compromise- it was put together because Silvio Berlusconi (wearing his Milan owner's hat) and several other big European clubs were starting to float the idea of replacing the cups with a full European league, with the biggest clubs having squads of 40-50 players to enable them to compete on domestic and European levels simultaneously. The main problem with the old European Cup was felt to be that if the champions from the big leagues were drawn together too early on, it had an impact on television audiences and revenue when unfancied clubs like Steaua Bucharest and Red Star Belgrade had a run to the final.

As regards today's cup final- I didn't see it and my new phone only has an FM radio, but perhaps the early goal was a bit of a two-edged sword in that it put Everton in the position of having to defend a lead and you don't really want to have to do that against Chelsea for 89 minutes.

[Larry]

At the risk of upsetting Pip and Lissa, I'd argue that it was tougher to win the league in "the old days" - look at it now, and you've got "The Big Four" who have finished in the top 4 for the last 4 (I think) seasons with only Everton managing to break in for a season 4 or 5 years ago, and Spurs almost making it shortly afterwards. Indeed, we've had exactly the same Top 6 in the same positions this season as last season. It's all too predictable now.

.

I'd actually agree with you on that even during the 1950's when Wolves and Manchester United, dominated the late 1960's when it was Leeds and the late 1970's to 1990 when it was Liverpool and Everton you always had at the start of each season up to 10 clubs who could in the title. Back in the pre premiership days it was not money that dicatated who would win trophies most if not all the clubs in the old division 1 including those who were promoted were all on an equal leval.

You only have to look at the previous 16 seasons before the formation of the premiership to see small unfancied clubs like QPR, Ipswich, Watford, and Southampton were all runners up in the old 1st division. West Ham, came very close to winning the title in 85/6 finishing 3rd and only missing out on the final day of the season.

So the fact you could have so many different clubs each season who could win the title certainly made the pre-premiership days far more interesting and healthy for football in general and made the league much harder to win.

[Jonno]

I was just thinking how, if Liverpool had converted just two of their 11 draws (7 at home!) they would have been champions and led Man U 19-17 overall instead of letting Man U equal their record. I then wondered how the final table would have looked under the old "2 points for a win" system.

With 28 wins and 6 draws, Man U would have had 62 points.
With 25 wins and 11 draws, Liverpool would have had 61 points.

So it doesn't change the outcome. I did hear though that Liverpool are the only team in the top division's history to lose as few as 2 games but not be champions!

[Dave Tudor]

I'm obviously gutted, still, after yesterdays' result, but I think in fairness, the best team won, and it was only fair that Guus Hiddink should win something after doing such a good job at Chelsea in such a short period.

But that goal right at the beginning was something else, a really sweet strike, and with Louis Saha smashing Roberto di Matteo's record, at least we beat Chelsea in one respect! But it was always going to be difficult to defend such an early lead for so long, and in the end, Chelsea's greater quality showed through.

However, we done ourselves proud for getting so far, and for at least giving Chelsea a fight of it for long periods. It could have been so different if we hadn't have been missing such key players as Arteta, Yakubu and Jagielka, but this season has at least shown huge progress by David Moyes and his team, and I hope that with a couple of (probably bargain!) signings in the summer, we can build on that progress next season, and possibly notch up anopther cup final appearance or two.

Our time will come.

[Larry]

I'm obviously gutted, still, after yesterdays' result,

yep I know what it feels like to lose in a cup final.

[Dirk Gently]

Don't we all.

[Wayne]

I don't.

[Pip Madeley]

I've never played in a Cup final...

[Pip Madeley]

Man Utd announce Tevez departure

Sad news I'd have paid to keep him.

[Captain Tancredi]

Leaking players almost as badly as Tranmere, then- John Barnes is officially under contract to Jamaica until the end of the month, so I'm guessing we won't be signing anybody until then, but we've already lost two first-team players and two second choices for their position.

[Jonno]

Hmm, so that's what John Barnes has been doing since being dropped by Five?