Defending The Underdog

[Jason Thompson]

OK, we all like different things, we all dislike different things. If the top ten and bottom ten threads went on long enough and enough people contributed no doubt every story would appear on both lists.

But....

What about the stories that are most commonly rated very low, but you actually rather like? What is it about The Dominators, The Krotons or The Mutants that actualy makes you enjoy them? Can you even define it?

So, come on, let's hear it for those underrated stories. I'll post my thoughts later on.

[Antony Cox]

I really like The Dominators because it's fun and very watchable, the same goes for Time and the Rani. Neither are intellectually challenging or high drama, but those facets doesn't necessarily make the best DW stories.

[Larry]

well the first story at the top of my list would be The Twin Dilema, my liking for it is probably just down to the fact that I don't have a problem with what JNT was trying to do in being a bit different.

[SiHart]

The Krotons is my underdog of choice. I adore the story.

On the face of it it's not all that. It's slow, it's ineptly made in places, but there's a few thinsg about it that i think make it worth a watch. Firstly the TARDIS team here are brilliant and really on form- especially so the Doctor and Zoe, who's scene with the teaching machine is really entertaining.
The sound design is brilliant too. There's no music, but Brain Hodgson's swirling psydelic soundscapes more than make for it. I love the sound of the Dynatrope, it feels like an out of this world place.
Thirdly the Krotons themselves are good. Yes the costumes are pants for the most part (aside from the spinnning heads- love that!) but they are a cut above the usual monster at this time. Their plan to educate the Gonds to a level that they will be able to fly their ship for them is really rather good. They're not the generic shouty alien invaders of The Dominators for instance- they have a good motive for what they're doing and the gaps they leave in the Gonds knowledge is an important plot point.
Fourthly Philip Madoc is always, always good.

So there you go. The Krotons. I adore it. Why don't you?

Si xx

[shada pavlova]

My favourite underdogs are Frontier in Space and Time-Flight. People say that FIS is just six episodes of capture and escape, but that in itself is an interesting story idea. Also, the episode iteslf acts as an excellent build-up to Planet of the Daleks.

Time-Flight is the episode I'm watching at the moment and I really think the idea of using Concorde was a good one, and the production team DID manage to pull it off. But, I can't help but think that it could have been wrapped up so much more easily in a two-parter, if they cut out The Master entirely.

[Andrew Curnow]

to all the defenders so far, especially Si's comments about The Krotons - one of my favourite Troughtons in fact!

I'm just going to briefly stick up for The Mutants, if I may. What's wrong with it seems to really boil down to a bad performance by the bloke who plays Cotton; some rather naff-looking sets; and... Actually, that tends to be all the genuine criticism that this story gets, so I don't know why it's so maligned.

In its favour, though, is a plot that, particularly for a Pertwee six-parter, moves along at a cracking pace. I love lots about this story, but I particularly admire the fact that it never stops surprising - how can anybody get bored, when the story constantly throws up new mysteries? We start off with who's the box for? Then, what's in the box? Then, what are the mutants? Then, who's the bloke in the cave? Then, what's with the crystal? It just keeps on chucking puzzles and twists & turns at the viewer, that I for one never tire of it.

Then there's some moody looking location filming, one of the finest creature designs the series ever saw, and all that, combined with Jon & Katy in fine form ("Have you read Rise and Fall?" "Is it any good?") makes me love this one, for all its faults.

[shada pavlova]

I only saw part 1 of The Mutants before they took it off YouTube.

[Carol Baynes]

I only saw part 1 of The Mutants before they took it off YouTube.

Bastards! I was watching that!

[shada pavlova]

Me too!

[Ralph]

to all the defenders so far, especially Si's comments about The Krotons - one of my favourite Troughtons in fact!

I'm just going to briefly stick up for The Mutants, if I may. What's wrong with it seems to really boil down to a bad performance by the bloke who plays Cotton; some rather naff-looking sets; and... Actually, that tends to be all the genuine criticism that this story gets, so I don't know why it's so maligned.

In its favour, though, is a plot that, particularly for a Pertwee six-parter, moves along at a cracking pace. I love lots about this story, but I particularly admire the fact that it never stops surprising - how can anybody get bored, when the story constantly throws up new mysteries? We start off with who's the box for? Then, what's in the box? Then, what are the mutants? Then, who's the bloke in the cave? Then, what's with the crystal? It just keeps on chucking puzzles and twists & turns at the viewer, that I for one never tire of it.

Then there's some moody looking location filming, one of the finest creature designs the series ever saw, and all that, combined with Jon & Katy in fine form ("Have you read Rise and Fall?" "Is it any good?") makes me love this one, for all its faults.

It's funny seeing the defence of a Pertwee story I think is crap!

I've got to admire your enthusiasm for this one Andrew - you've even got me half believing it's actually entertaining!

[Ralph]

I really like The Dominators because it's fun and very watchable, the same goes for Time and the Rani. Neither are intellectually challenging or high drama, but those facets doesn't necessarily make the best DW stories.

It's worth it just for Ron Allen's performance alone!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I'm just going to briefly stick up for The Mutants, if I may. What's wrong with it seems to really boil down to a bad performance by the bloke who plays Cotton; some rather naff-looking sets; and... Actually, that tends to be all the genuine criticism that this story gets, so I don't know why it's so maligned.

As a further point to this, I'd say that the bloke who plays cotton isn't even that bad. He's given some crap lines, and he has a bit of a weird accent, but he's not even as bad as "Stubbsy" to name just one.

One thing that IS a bit iffy is that, when Ky evolves into the floaty God-like stage of Solonian life that is apparently so wonderful that even the Timelords step in to protect them, his first elightened act is to get revenge by killing the Marshall, even though he's already been stripped of power and the crisis is over. Which is a bit of a bummer and makes you wonder if it was all worth it

[Andrew Curnow]

I think you're being rather generous to RIck James acting; but I agree it's not the worst performance in the history of Who. The Timelord council chamber scene early in The Five Doctors is cursed with incorrect emphasis, making the dialogue gibberish; and Neska in Planet of the Spiders is just the stuff of nightmares.

I've got to admire your enthusiasm for this one Andrew - you've even got me half believing it's actually entertaining!

I am the Andrew, and you will believe me!!!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I think you're being rather generous to RIck James acting.

Well perhaps I'm mad as a lorry, but I really don't think he's that bad.

I can't remember any actualy examples, but I remember thinking the last time I watched it that he has a few lines that are so cheesy it would be impossible to delive them believably, because the words themselves aren't believable. But most of the time, particularly when he's just quietly showing Jo around and explaining how bits of the station work, he seems to be quite a believable person. Whereas Stubbs seems hammy all the time, and whatever-the-name-of-the-guy-played-by-Spandrell seems totally unbelievable all the way through. So he might not be the best actor in the series ever, but there's a hell of a lot worse than him, including more than one companion.

[Andrew Curnow]

Oh yes, George Pravda! I know he's kind of saddled with his accent, but I agree that he's not really very good - and he seems to get worse as he gets older. He's not too bad in Enemy of the World, but in Deadly Assassin he seems very ropey.

And I suspect that I shall now be using "Mad as a lorry" in conversation (perhaps instead of "mad as a bicycle" which I currently use)!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Ha. Actually I think he's much much better in The Deadly Assassin. But maybe that's because it's a story largely about doddery old men who don't really know what they're doing.

[Lord President]

I love The Gunfighters (calm down Wayne!), it is funny, entertaining and Hartnell is on his best comic form! Dodo and Steven singing the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon is hilarious!!!!!

[Antony Cox]

a Pertwee story I think is crap!

[Ralph]

Yes I know...it's shocking! I appreciate it's presumed that for me anything with Mr Pertwee in it is considered hallowed ground. But I'm afraid this and Colony in Space and The Five Doctors in my view fall well below the standards I have rightfully come to expect but hey 22 Pertwees are still a joy to behold! Not forgetting all those lovely T Bakers - well most of 'em

[Wayne]

I've decided we're gonna watch Colony In Space when you come down to my place again in October.
You need to realize that it doesn't deserve to get lumped in with 'The Mutants'.

[Ralph]

Well if I took a liking to Colony then it's no bad thing

Pertwee, Manning and Delgado should work!

[shada pavlova]

It did work...every other time.

[Ralph]

Well I'll be coming to the rescue shortly of The Time Monster, a much maligned fun story

[SiHart]

Colny in Space is rather unfairly maligned. Especially as it's frequently mentioned in the same breath as the steaming pile of cack that is The Time Monster. It may be slow and talky and a bit earnest, but it's not as silly as the Time Monster is.

Si xx

[Antony Cox]

I don't have a copy of Colonic Irrigation In Space but I've seen it a few times and I remember quite enjoying it.