Defending The Underdog

[Ralph]

It may be slow and talky and a bit earnest, but it's not as silly as the Time Monster is.

City of Death.... now thats silly

[Antony Cox]

City of Death.... now thats silly

See, now I can never see why so many people dislike City of Death. Yes, there is overt humour, but underneath that there's a really good story. And Tom plays it serious when he needs to, hence (in my mind at least) the humour when it occurs is acceptable.

[Ralph]

See, now I can never see why so many people dislike City of Death. Yes, there is overt humour, but underneath that there's a really good story. And Tom plays it serious when he needs to, hence (in my mind at least) the humour when it occurs is acceptable.

I actually like City Of Death but to me it's as silly as The Time Monster, which is what I'm addressing here. I can do silly and entertaining to an extent but I can't do boring!

Obviously I picked a story I know Si Hart loves as much as I enjoy the Time Monster!

[Antony Cox]

I can do silly and entertaining to an extent but I can't do boring!

Agreed!

But what is it about COD that you find silly? Is it the humour itself, or something about the story/plot?

[Ralph]

Agreed!

But what is it about COD that you find silly? Is it the humour itself, or something about the story/plot?

The concept is good but elements of the execution are silly revolving around Duggan's character and running around Paris just for the hell of it and then throwing in John Cleese on top - I do enjoy it though!

[Antony Cox]

Fair enough!

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

I like Colony In Space too. I think the IMC guys have great characters. I like the difference in characters between Dent (a right s*d) and the bloke played by Bernard Kay (the nice chap).
Some of the colonists get on my nerves a bit, but then there wouldn’t be much of a story if they all agreed with each other all the time.
I like the rather late, and upon first viewing, unexpected arrival of the Master too.

The only things in this story that annoy me is the high priest (or whatever it is) at the end – I just think it looks a bit naff, and the rather lazy TARDIS materialisations/dematerialisations – it’s like watching Rentaghost!!!

[SiHart]

I also think much of the problem with the Pertwee six parters (and others too) is the washed out 525 line prints that don't do the stories any favour. I'm sure if Colony looked a little more colourful than a dreary grey smudge, it would be a little better regarded.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

Also these stories were made to keep you entertained once a week. If you watch a Pertwee six parter in one go, of course it's going to drag - they were made as a week-on-week serial. How much more enjoyable was "The Sea Devils" when watched once a week during the 1992 repeat season compared with the video, which invited you to watch it in one or maybe two sittings.

Si.

[Antony Cox]

I also think much of the problem with the Pertwee six parters (and others too) is the washed out 525 line prints that don't do the stories any favour.

If I were pedantic, I'd point out that they're not prints at all (with obvious exception of Mind of Evil) they're quad tapes. But of course I'm not pedantic, so I won't!

I'm sure if Colony looked a little more colourful than a dreary grey smudge, it would be a little better regarded.

Si xx

I'm sure once Jonathan Wood has finsihed with it, everyone will be sporting red lipstick and wearing gawdy seventies fashion....

[SiHart]

Pedant!

Si xx

[Jason Thompson]

I'm glad to see shows like The Dominators, The Krotons and The Mutants appearing in this thread so quickly. I like all three of them. The Dominators has some great performances. Rago is fantastic, and I love the Doctor and Jamie's stupid act. OK, Arthur Coz was woefully miscast, and some of the Dulcian Council scenes are interminable, but really it's not all that bad. Again, part of the 'it's dull' argument I am sure comes from people trying to watch it all in one sitting.

The Krotons is a fun little four parter. OK, the Krotons look a bit naff, but it moves along at a nice pace, and Philip Madoc is great.

The Mutants, again, fails if you try to watch it all in one go, but in a few sittings it's not too bad. Some of the performances are sub-par, and there's some really silly stuff about Varan falling through a wall of the Skybase, but the basic plot is fine.

I'm sure there are other underdogs I'd like to defend, but people got in too quick with my favourite ones....

[Stuart Wallis]

Join the club Jason!

I've just been a bit silly about The Claws Of Axos on another thread, but it's not all that bad. Yes, alright, the Baker & Martin Book Of Mad Science has been raided, certainly not for the last time, but the basic idea is a good one - "beware Greek substitute bearing gifts". And it's a turnaround from the Doctor being so willing to look at the Silurians or the Mutts, later on, and say, "now look here, these aliens may have something up their sleeves." It's a simple story, told without too many theatrics. Gaudy it is too, but the design is as alien as we're likely to get on a Doctor Who budget.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'd also like to stick up for The Creature from The Pit.

Yes, the miners are 2-d characters (possibly not as many -d as that) and are made even worse by stereotypical performances. They're fun when you're seven, embarassing when you're thirty-seven.

But against that, is an inventive story of ideas & imagination - a creature that lives on chlorophyll; a world where metal is wealth; the creature's communicator. Lady Adrasta is such a striking female villain, the wolfweeds are great little monsters, and the story has such pace. Add to that some superb cliffhangers - part 1 does a twist at the end by having the Doctor throw himself down the pit, and part 3 is my all-time fave WTF ending.

Even the monster isn't that bad, in fact other than the slightly embarassing proboscis I think it's on a par with other monsters of the time. The end of part 2 is pretty effective, for example. They could probably have done with some model shots (eg, of Adrasta's palace with the great green blob outside it) so as to help sell the scale and size, but apart from that, it's fine IMHO.

Anyway, I love it!

[Kaybee Bailey]

I'll defend Timelash just as soon as I can work out what the hell was going on...

No seriously, there is the odd decent idea creeping in there... like the Nineteen Eighty-Four society and the Doctor meeting H G Wells. Admittedly I might not personally have put them in the same story. I just always felt it was fashionable to dismiss it as pure rubbish when there's just a bit too much going on. Nothing that a bit of script editing couldn't have fixed!

[Pip Madeley]

Shooting the designer would help too.