Star Trek: The Next Generation

[Si Hunt]

Always loved this, and now I'm watching them through on DVD, just about to finish Series 2. There have been a few shaky episodes this season, but also some really good ones - the one where they found a double of Picard six hours into the future drifting in space was good, as was "Q, Who" with the Borg in.

Anyone else a fan, and what decent episodes have I got to look forward to in Season 3?

Si.

[Ralph]

Well I'm thinking maybe I'll join in this sister thread at some point

I guess I've never really given this a chance since it's in the shadow of such a mighty series!

[Si Hunt]

I like the original series, but next Gen is far plusher, better effects, more in depth stories etc. I'd be interested to hear your reasons why you prefer the original series Ralph.

Si.

[Ralph]

I guess I better watch the Next Gen then to give valid reasons

[Martin Penny]

I think it has it's ups and downs really. The characters are a likeable bunch, especially Picard and Data - but I find Geordi, Crusher and Troi are incredibly dull to watch, and Worf didn't really become that interesting for me until DS9. I think a problem is that the characters never have any conflict, and so can sometimes come across as a somewhat bland bunch of do-gooders who are always in total agreement.

It certainly has some brilliant episodes, and is a very strong series overall, but I find there's a lot of very boring 'filler' type episodes with a cliched moral story.

I make it sound like I don't like it there, but I do think it's an excellent show - it just lacks the 'fun' of the original series, and the complexity, story arcs and fascinating characters in DS9 - which will always be my favourite Trek series.

I don't remember too much about Season 3, apart from the brilliant season finale...

[WhiteCrow]

Yesterdays Enterprise - possibly the best Trek ever, with added timey-whimey things.

And of course Best of Both Worlds - another contender.

The 3rd series was when ST:TNG really found itself, and just leapt in quality. Also Wesley leaves.

Actually where do you start - all the following are good episodes,

The Survivors, The Enemy, Booby Trap, The Defector, Captains Paradise, The Hunted, Tin Man, The Most Toys, Menage a Trois

[Martin Penny]

Having had a look over the episodes of Season 3 - I think I would say that 'Deja-Q', 'Sins of the Father' and 'Sarek' were my favourites.

I've not watched the earlier seasons for a while, but I remember finding series 1 and 2 to be quite poor when compared with the rest of the series, I also don't like the uniforms having no collar! They don't look smart enough!

[Dirk Gently]

...Booby Trap...

That was a disappointing episode, never lived up to its title. It should have been done for misleading advertising.

[Phillip Culley]

I finally finished watching TNG a few weeks ago, and found I enjoyed it lot more than I remembered

Personally, aside from the obvious 'Yesterday's Enterprise' and 'The Best of Both Worlds', my favourites of the season were 'The Enemy', 'The Defector', 'Deja Q', 'Sins of the Father' and 'Sarek'.

[Andrew Curnow]

I followed TNG avidly on BBC2 up to about series 4 (whichever one has the Borg as the season finale) - since then, though, whenever I've caught it I find it hard to get all that excited about it. I think it's dated and also, nowadays, just feels a bit 'safe' - obviously at the time it was very new and exciting and different, but now I think it pales in comparison to DS9 or even, at its best, Enterprise.

Even the TNG films somehow lacked the sparkle of the TOS ones.

[Andrew Curnow]

Apologies to anybody who finds 'the TNG' and 'the TOS' as annoying as 'PIN number' but that sentence just didn't look right without 'the' in it!

[Dirk Gently]

You mean the NG & the OS Andrew?

[Si Hunt]

Thanks all for your 'best episodes', I will look out for those.

Also Wesley leaves.

So soon? Oh no! Does he come back? I'm sure I remember him being in it past Season 3.

Is there another Borg episode in Season 3? They just seemed to lift the whole series when they appeared, especially as their whole debut episode is presented as a 'prologue'. Even though you have the nagging suspicion this is what the Nineties Cybermen could have been like.

Si.

[Phillip Culley]

The only Borg episode in Season 3 is The Best of Both Worlds - and following that there aren't that many episodes with them: Season 5's 'I, Borg', and the Season 6 finale 'Descent' (as well as the second parts of BoBW and Descent in Seasons 4 and 7).

As to Wesley, he's in it for the whole of Season 3, and then will leave about a third of the way into Season 4; although he will come back for a few episodes in Seasons 5 and 7.

[MacNimon]

This is going to sound really silly (for being so bleeding obvious) but the best place for Ralph (a big original series fan) to start on this series is Season One. Not simply because this is where it starts, but also that this season is the one which feels like it's an extension of the original Star Trek series. Fair enough, the characters are different, but so many other things are the same...just simple things like the style of the stories, some of the alien planets/landscapes, and an episode or two which are obviously sequels to original series stories. Admittedly this isn't one of the strongest seasons, but at this point it still feels like Star Trek...after this first season the series went on to establish it's own identity, but losing it's sense of 'Trekiness' in the process.

Because the majority of the TNG stories are stand-alone episodes, and there are no major story arcs running through the series, people often tend to think that this is a series where you can just jump on at any point. But by doing so (by possibly starting around seasons 3 or 4), you miss out on everything that made this feel a genuine part of the Trek universe. Some of the best episodes may still be to come, but without watching those early stories then those classic TNG episodes may never get appreciated for what they are.

[Ralph]

Hi Mac yes I've decided to start from S1 to give it a fair chance

[Llordllama]

Much as I love (and still love) a lot of TNG - Frame of Mind, Schisms, The Pegasus, along with the aforementioned BoBW and YE. But then I can only say Sub Rosa and Transfigerations.

Honestly - Beverly shags a ghost in one, and an energy beast in another. I'm still traumatised by them both. Let alone Picard and his woman with the roll up keyboard stuffed up a Jeffrey's tube in Lessons...

[Wayne]

I'll contribute properly later, but for now i'm just off to the Post Office.

(Cryptic wink)

[Wayne]

Just a bit of a personal Trek history overview before i go on to talk about ST:TNG in more depth.

Obviously i grew up with the original series, & i love it (well 3/4 of it anyway) to bits, & in many ways comparing it to the later sequels is very difficult because they are so different. It's a bit like trying to compare something like Blake's 7 with The X-Files - (to choose two totally different styles of show offhand) Both are equally great in their own way, & both also have aspects that are better than the other.
The original series came up with really innovative concepts for it's day, & some great stories, but broadly speaking the best of the stories from the sequels are more complex, multi-layered, & more in depth. All though not in every case!
For me, the original series is a bit like 70's Who in my personal spectrum of entertainment, but whereas i fell out of love with Who in 1977, Star Trek's re-birth on the big screen kept the Trek flame alive, & although the first movie was a bit disappointing, it was the vast improvement & the commercial success of the following movies that ultimately led to the TV continuation of the Trek universe, because there was obviously still a big market for Star Trek.
In the 80's i was about as big a Trekkie as you could get, (obviously without doing the really geeky stuff like wearing uniforms & pointed ears & going to conventions or whatever) But i was heavily into all the Star Trek original novels. I can remember when i only had a few, but then i cashed in an insurance policy sometime in the mid 80's, & (amongst other things) i went to Sheffield Space Centre & bought every single Star Trek novel that they had. This was shortly before Titan books got the rights to start publishing them here, & i bought about of American Pocket books originals in one go. And when Titan books started bringing about one every month or so, i got my 'in between movies' fix of Trek that way. I still have them all, but they've recently been consigned to being stacked on top of a shelf in the bedroom.
So when ST:TNG first hit the UK, i was intensely curious, but i was also very much committed to the original characters. In good faith, me & a couple of mates hired out the first ST:TNG story 'Encounter at Farpoint' when it came out on video, before it hit the tv, & we were frankly disappointed.
The cast seemed so wooden! Not just Picard, Riker, & Troi, but virtually all of them! Those that weren't wooden were downright cheesy, like Geordi, Tasha Yar, & that kid. Who the hell was that kid supposed to be? What were they thinking of? God, i hated Wesley Crusher with a passion reserved only for the likes of Norman Tebbitt & Thatcher.
However, once it came on tv at least i could watch it for free, & at least it was Sci-Fi, so unless i was doing something else, i used to watch it. I still think it was pretty dank in it's early days. I know some things were deliberately done differently to Classic Trek. Kirk was a bit of an action hero, whereas Picard didn't seem to do frack all. Kirk & crew were very hands on. They would deal with things. There was immediacy. Picard would have board meeting whilst the Romulans had to wait patiently for them to do something. Riker was a piss poor Kirk with a stiff neck & zero screen prescence. Spock was dliluted into two characters - partly the abysmal Troi, but mostly the oh so quirky Data. Worf was the most laughable, unconvincing Klingon ever, Geordi was just piss-poor, & then there was that kid.
Yes, it took me a long time to stop making comparisons, but eventually it started getting a bit better. S1 just seems like a practise run compared to the later stuff. It's hard to believe that some of the amazing episodes that would come later are even part of the same show. Apart from the odd episode where he could get his teeth into a good script, Patrick Stewart didn't really wake up out of his coma until S3 after the Borg had hold of him.
Eventually most things got better. It started in S2, but for me ST:TNG didn't really give birth until S3. Picard started doing stuff, Data gradually got genuinely funny instead of corny. Worf took the longest, but even he eventually gained a character along the way, despite a few strange hairstyles, one was of which slightly suggestive of Klingon transexualism. But as someone said earlier, he didn't really come into his own until DS9. Even Troi just about managed a bit of conviction by the end of it's run, but it took Marina Sirtis 5 or 6 years of parctise to learn how to act. Riker got a bit better over time, (but Geordi never really did) but it really picked up when they got rid of that kid. As for the Doctor, she was just ok. Not terrible, but nothing special. I'll talk about the newer characters that were introduced later.

A brief word on the other sequels.

DS9 - Very promising pilot, but then two seasons of the (mostly) dullest Trek ever! Even now i never bothered buying S2 & 3 of DS9 on dvd. I just got the occasional good ones. Starts to pick up during S3, but really hits it's stride from S4 onwards, mostly for two reasons - Worf. (All his best stuff was in DS9) But the biggesy thing was the Dominion war, which for me made for possibly the Trek ever. Apart from the soapy O'Brien stuff, & the dumbass contrived to be funny, but actually not funny at all Ferengi episodes, the last 4 seasons of DS9 were awesome.

Voyager - This for me is comparable to the Davison era in many ways. A bit crappy at the start, but eventually becomes very consistently watchable, but with not so many real standout episodes as the other series', but by the same token, not so many crap ones either.

Enterprise - Well, i seemed to be the only person i know that really took to this show from day one. I thought it was great, & produced possibly the most gripping single season of the Trek sequels in it's 3rd season.
Unfortunately, no one else seemed to like it. Not least the american public who disinterest was so great that it was aborted after 4 seasons.

More ST:TNG specific stuff later.

[Phillip Culley]

With Enterprise, I loved it when it first came out (the notion of 'boldly going forward only to balls it up' appealed), although it was obvious it didn't know what it was doing - Season 3 had a vague story arc which ended up feeling very much like it was made up as it went along (such as the Sphere Builders appearing in the first episode to mention them - they should have taken a leaf from DS9's second season with the Dominion and had them referred to prior to their appearance).

Shame about the final season, which was plainly obvious that they knew no bugger was watching it aside for the fans, so they made a season of utter fanwank, with only two bright spots - the mirror universe story, and the penultimate episode with the anti-alien terrorists.

[Wayne]

More ST:TNG specific stuff later.

My opinion on what the good episodes from the first couple of seasons:

S1

Datalore

"When the crew discovers a prototype for Data, the lookalike android attempts to take over the ship by pretending to be Data."

This was the first spark of hope for me. A good story, that led to even better sequels later.

Skin of Evil

"An evil alien kills Tasha Yar and holds Deanna Troi hostage while she argues the innate goodness of most beings."

I liked this one because it had quite a classic Star Trek feel to it, & thought the death of Tasha Yar was handled very well.

Conspiracy

"Picard returns to Earth to investigate what he suspects is a conspiracy among the highest ranks of Starfleet Command, involving worm-eating aliens from another galaxy."

Best ep from S1 for me. Probably 'coz it's a slightly horiffic episode. I thought the SFX were amazing for a tv show at the time, but it looks a bit dated now of course.

That's it!

S2

A Matter of Honour

"Riker is assigned to a Klingon vessel as part of an exchange; his loyalties are tested when he learns the ship plans to attack the Enterprise."

I liked this because it was the first proper look at the Klingons, & i thought it was well written.

The Measure of a Man

"When a scientist wants to disassemble Data in order to figure out how to replicate him, Picard and Riker must take opposing sides in arguing Data's right to refuse for a Starfleet tribunal."

Some people perhaps wouldn't like this because it's a bit talky, but i think it's one of the best examples of the the classic Sci-Fi question: 'Are Androids people?' & a good look at prejudice & beaurocrasy.
It was also the first ep that i can remember where Patrick Stewart really came alive & made me realize he could act.

The Royale

"While investigating a discovery from ancient Earth, an away team is trapped in the hotel Royale, a bad holonovel with no end in sight."

I've always liked these Twilight Zone-esque type of stories. The sort of thing that the original Trek did in stories like 'Spectre of the Gun', & Dr Who did with 'The Mind Robber'. Great concept, & an enjoyable ep.

Time Squared

"Picard encounters his own double from several hours in the future, who has witnessed the destruction of his own Enterprise. The first Picard becomes obsessed with figuring out how to stop the cataclysm which he himself will apparently cause."

Great episode. You can't beat a good time paradox! ST:TNG did this sort of thing so well, & this was the first of several excellent time paradox stories!

Q-Who

"Q flings the Enterprise into the path of a malevolent race of organic-robotic aliens called the Borg."

A fun Q episode, that gives us a 'sneak prieview' of the aliens that would be part of one of the best ST:TNG episodes of all in S3.

The Emissary

"Worf's former flame K'Ehleyr is sent in a torpedo tube to mediate a dispute between the Federation and the Klingon Empire."

One of the first Worf-centric episodes, but more memorable to me because of Susie Plakson's great portrayal as the guest star of the ep.

Anyone else a fan, and what decent episodes have I got to look forward to in Season 3?

Si.

I'll give my thoughts on S3 a bit later.

[Jonno]

I think that Next Gen came along at the right time for me - September 1990 on BBC2 and no more Doctor Who, so I guess I used it as a bit of a substitute! I enjoyed it from the off, though as most people agree, it really found its feet in S3. I taped what sounded like the best episodes (it was an advantage being some years behind USA and I read about the episodes to come in the likes of DWB) but apart from those selected episodes, I never saw the others again after the initial run until a repeat run began on BBC2 a couple of years ago, with an episode or two on Saturday lunchtimes, which was generally a convenient time to catch them.

However, after a few months they switched to a 2am or so slot on a Friday night, and although I kept going just into S4, I soon grew tired of remembering to set the recorder every Friday night and of having to watch two a week before fitting the next two in. So I gave up (the repeats are now on S7) and decided to buy the boxsets instead as they were around the £15 mark per season, which is very good value for money. I have currently bought the first five seasons and have watched the S1 and S2 extras plus an episode in S3 that I missed a year or so back.

My highlights of the first 3 seasons are much as already mentioned - the Borg episodes, the ("beeeeeeeeeeeep!" - Mod), the Picard double one, the Lore ones, and most especially Yesterday's Enterprise, one of the finest 45 minutes of TV ever IMO! S4 gets off to a strong start too with many episodes having the theme of family, and plenty of good continuity all round.

[Perry Vale]

Love TNG too! TOS has a kitsch value, but Next Gen has much more depth, and better characters, imo. I have all the bulky dvd sets, but haven't watched any for a few years now. I'm hoping that the tests on re-doing the sfx (like TOS) pay off, as the picture quality on them (especially the early seasons) is very poor.

Agree with all the recommended episodes above, and off the top of my head, Darmok & Time's Arrow (??) are wonderful too.

Oh, and Jonno might want to hide a spoiler in his last paragraph for Ralph's sake?

[Jonno]

Regarding the spoiler, I wasn't under the impression that Ralph had never watched Next Gen? Though re-reading his posts, it is quite ambiguous really! Ralph?

[Wayne]

Regarding the spoiler, I wasn't under the impression that Ralph had never watched Next Gen? Though re-reading his posts, it is quite ambiguous really! Ralph?

I wouldn't expect an answer anytime soon, Jonno.

http://planetskaro.org.uk/forums/sho...t=1115&page=13

I know he's seen some of it, but i'm not sure what.