Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion

[Rob McCow]

I read Dawkins' broadside against organised religion and religion of all kinds earlier this week. Like all his books, I found his tone conversational, interesting and entertaining, full of engaging analogies and examples.

I've heard a few people say they found it heavy going, but I didn't find that at all.

Fair to say, it doesn't go for the moderate ground, which is fair enough - what is the point of being religious if you're going to be moderate about it? The book highlights the horrors and bigotry that religious belief can bring. It also argues in very strong terms against the basic principles of the Abrahamic religions and shows why the doctrines of the most pervasive modern religions can be dangerous, childish and perverse.

Another fascinating aspect is that it looks at religion from a scientific point of view and asks why it is such a ubiquitous concept, with people all over the world believing in different things.

It's recommended reading for just about everyone, whether you agree with it or hate it. It's passionate but fair, angry but controlled.

[Captain Tancredi]

I'm about halfway through now and on to the really, really interesting stuff about memes. Although he hasn't quite wrapped it up yet, I can see how meme theory could explain the rise of Christianity- the religion's central messages are (i) obey authority and (ii) be nice to each other, and it follows that a society or community based on those principles would be better equipped to recover from war, famine or a natural disaster than one which was based on everybody looking out for themselves and their immediate family.

[WhiteCrow]

This kind of interests me - although he sounds like a full fledged evangelical athiest.

I too have some heavy issues with organised religion. However on a personal level I know faith, belief and spirituality are indeed important part of our makeup as human beings. I know in my internal monologue (often echoed on my blog in my more introspective moments) I'm always dissecting these, and trying to work out just how they work.

[Lord President]

I read this a while back, and, as a fully fledged paid-up athiest, I found it a great read.

It still surprises me that so many people believe in an almighty being, originally created to explain why the sun rose and set every day!

I recently read a great (but possibly offensive) description of Christianity.

CHRISTIANITY

The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.


Well, you can't argue with logic like that!

[Dirk Gently]

Yes you can.


And as a "fully fledged paid-up athiest" how do you reconcile the idea of having a soul & yet not believe in something greater than us?

[WhiteCrow]

So religion is the source of all evil. Thats why athiest societies like Communist Russia and China have such great human rights records.

[Rob McCow]

Thats why athiest societies like Communist Russia and China have such great human rights records.

Right up there with Saudi Arabia.

how do you reconcile the idea of having a soul & yet not believe in something greater than us?

Depends what you think a 'soul' is. Do we really have existance outside our bodies? Are our bodies like a vehicle with a metaphysical pilot or is it the case that our physical bodies are the whole of us?

[Captain Tancredi]

The issue I have with any idea of a soul or afterlife is that the way we think and the way we perceive things is irretrievably filtered through the human brain- which is a physical organ and is going to decay like the rest of our bodies after we die. I don't think it's possible to imagine how existence or non-existence would feel after that.

[WhiteCrow]

The idea of "is this all there is" has been going around my head for decades. In fact I'm sure I blogged about this recently.

I think if I really believed there was nothing when we died, that on our death every moment of our existence is just flushed away. Then I really don't see the point - might as well end it now on my own terms than let it catch up with me.

[Anthony Williams]

I must admit, Dawkins really winds me up... the zeal with which he pushes his anti-religious agenda means that his own brand of fundamentalism is every bit as bad, if not worse, than Islamic, Christian, or any other type of religious fundamentalism.

Ant x

[WhiteCrow]

I must admit, Dawkins really winds me up... the zeal with which he pushes his anti-religious agenda means that his own brand of fundamentalism is every bit as bad, if not worse, than Islamic, Christian, or any other type of religious fundamentalism.

Evangelical athiests - my wife is one!

"Good morning sir - I'd like to share with you the bad news that God does not exist ..."

[Rob McCow]

Dawkins could be persuaded to change his mind though. If there was a convincing case for the existence of a god, then he has said that he would be prepared to back it up. Religious fundamentalistists aren't prepared to do that.

The major difference though is that religious fundamentalists believe that there are many people in the world who are infidels who deserve to die, or that unbelievers are going to hell.

The concept that there are the 'saved' and the 'damned' leads to bigotry and intolerance.

[Dirk Gently]

That's the problem I have with Dawkins, (but I haven't read this book so forgive me if he comes over differently in it) but he appears to me to be a 100% or nothing man. There seems to be no middle ground, God either does not exist or Dawkins wants proof that God does exist.

[Paul Monk]

Pretty reasonable in my opinion!

I've always liked Dawkins, from first seeing him on the Royal Institution lectures right through till now, but I do worry about him. His does get quite angry on his TV programmes and watching him is a bit like watching someone repeatedly bang his head against a brick wall. Maybe he needs to calm down a bit.
I also worry that hes only going to be remembered as that bloke that has a go at religion and not for his brilliant work in the evolutionary biology field.

He is a very typical academic though!

[Rob McCow]

He's passionate about his arguments, so he presents his case strongly.

There's far more vitriol directed against him. When I went to see him speak at Reading University, the people standing up to ask questions all had a 'Right, I'm going to get you on this one!' attitude. His response was always calm and reasonable.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I also worry that hes only going to be remembered as that bloke that has a go at religion and not for his brilliant work in the evolutionary biology field.

Well whichever of these two things you identify him with most, you must admit that he was the perfect choice to guest star on Doctor Who as an astronomy expert. For some reason.

[Lord President]

Yes you can.


And as a "fully fledged paid-up athiest" how do you reconcile the idea of having a soul & yet not believe in something greater than us?

I don't claim to have a soul, I also don't believe in talking snakes or magic trees!

[Dirk Gently]

I don't claim to have a soul*, I also don't believe in talking snakes or magic trees**!

The 2*/** aren't mutually exclusive y'know.

[WhiteCrow]

Well it's been reported in the News that evolution is no more today. So just as Dawkins tried to kill my God, today I get to kill his!

Supposedly evolution for homo-sapiens has reached a dead end when it made Jade Goody.

[Dirk Gently]

She was an evolutionary cul-de-sac.

[Lord President]

Supposedly evolution for homo-sapiens has reached a dead end when it made Jade Goody.

Are you saying that God gave her cancer?