E-Space Trilogy on DVD (out now!)

[Pip Madeley]

Working my way through the special features, I'm surprised to discover Uncle Terrace & Christopher 'Aitch' Bidmead didn't get on at all and that it was down to Peter Moffatt that Terrance's original script was used.

[Jamie McCrimmon]

I've never watched any of the special features on any of my Who dvds. I just never thought about it. I'm really looking forward to the ones on this though.

[SiHart]

Working my way through the special features, I'm surprised to discover Uncle Terrace & Christopher 'Aitch' Bidmead didn't get on at all and that it was down to Peter Moffatt that Terrance's original script was used.

Oh yes, there are a few tensions between Bidmead and Dicks... but that's nothing compared to the troubled production of Warriors' Gate. There's tensions a plenty examined on that disc.

It's been a great set so far, and I've even watched some of the episodes themselves,rather than with the commentaries, which is rare, as I tend to do that a lot later.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

Is Graeme Harper interviewed on the Warriors Gate disc, Si? I seem to recall him being asked about it in DWM not that long ago, but being very tactful about the whole thing.

[SiHart]

No, he's mentioned a lot but not interviewed, despite being the director of the story for a couple of hours while they tried to sack Paul Joyce. The whole situation is a rather complex clash of personalities it seems.Joyce was trying to be stylish, the BBC staff were having none of it!

I think he was actually rather prescient about the way TV would develop in the future to be more like mini-films, but was stuck doing it at a time when his ideas were stamped down. As he says with no disrespect to any other directors on Who at the time, they tended to point and shoot rather than think of new innovations, but that was the way things were done. I found his relating of his meeting with Barry Letts rather amusing, because we tend to think highly of Mr Letts, but in the end Joyce was right, just not in 1980. In fact that is rather rare, as we don't tend to hear much about Barry Letts' involvement in the season, but he seems to have a bit to do with Warriors' Gate.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

We haven't got as far as "Warrior's Gate" but wasn't it the case that Joyce's inventions were taking rather more time than they had? It's all very being ahead of your time, but that's not much good if they'd not had time to shoot it all.

Si.

[SiHart]

Well, yes they were taking time, but mostly because the technicians in the sudio kept calling a halt and stopping the recording. There was a 2 hour walk out because he dared to film the lighting gantry through the set.

You can see both points of view really- one man trying to a stylish Doctor Who vs the BBC staff who weren't flexible enough to try new things. I'm not saying Joyce was necessarily right, but at least he tried and ultimately produced something with some flair to it.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

but at least he tried and ultimately produced something with some flair to it.

Let's hope they bring that out on DVD one day as well! *snigger*

Si.

[SiHart]

Cheeky!

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

I should stop being naughty really, shouldn't I Si.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

Warriors' Gate is undeniably a well-directed story but I thought Paul Joyce came across as a bit self-important what with his alleged argument with Barry Letts and comments like "I made it for people like you"... but it can't be denied, his view at the time that TV would become more like film was so true.

[Larry]

No, he's mentioned a lot but not interviewed, despite being the director of the story for a couple of hours while they tried to sack Paul Joyce. The whole situation is a rather complex clash of personalities it seems.Joyce was trying to be stylish, the BBC staff were having none of it!

I think he was actually rather prescient about the way TV would develop in the future to be more like mini-films, but was stuck doing it at a time when his ideas were stamped down. As he says with no disrespect to any other directors on Who at the time, they tended to point and shoot rather than think of new innovations, but that was the way things were done. I found his relating of his meeting with Barry Letts rather amusing, because we tend to think highly of Mr Letts, but in the end Joyce was right, just not in 1980. In fact that is rather rare, as we don't tend to hear much about Barry Letts' involvement in the season, but he seems to have a bit to do with Warriors' Gate.

Si xx

yeh Joyce said that he told Letts, he was past it...

but to be honest when I was watching it you couldn't help but feel sympathetic towards Joyce, and listening to what he was trying to do I was left thinking that he was 20 years ahead of his time and would of loved working on the new series.

[Rob McCow]

I'm in the Joyce camp too - he may be pretentious, but he's also ambitious and passionate. And he's got a good point that you shouldn't make TV to keep the 9th floor of the BBC (or whatever) happy, but the audience.

Everyone on the commentary and documentaries speak well of him, it's only the bureacracy that got the knives out. Freeze framing the internal memos and letters is a must!

[Jamie McCrimmon]

I've just watched 'Lalla's Wardrobe', it was lovely. I didn't like all those dreary women in the street saying they thought the clothes were rubbish - they didn't look as though they could cope with anything more imaginative than Primark! I'm going to watch all the extras on all my Who dvds now. How exciting!

[Captain Tancredi]

I've never watched any of the special features on any of my Who dvds. I just never thought about it. I'm really looking forward to the ones on this though.

'Leaves of Blood' on the State of Decay DVD includes an interview with an academic expert on vampire fiction. Just think of all the money they wasted interviewing her when a certain academic vampire expert we know would probably have quite happily done the same in return for a free copy of the box set!

[Pip Madeley]

I've just watched 'Lalla's Wardrobe', it was lovely. I didn't like all those dreary women in the street saying they thought the clothes were rubbish - they didn't look as though they could cope with anything more imaginative than Primark!

They weren't that fit either.

[Rob McCow]

I didn't like all those dreary women in the street saying they thought the clothes were rubbish - they didn't look as though they could cope with anything more imaginative than Primark!

I thought they were awful dressers. Shabby dark jackets, dull scarves, bad hair, zits, melting faces, warts, ugly glasses, big noses... they're all jealous of Lalla, who has none of those things!

More Warriors' Gate commentary tonight, featuring this classic exchange:

Chris Bidmead: So you're saying you'd like to go back and do a series exploring the lives of these Tharils?
Pause.
Joyce: (in quiet, drained voice) Wouldn't that be fun.

[Captain Tancredi]

What seems to be coming out of a lot of the features is that in spite of Barry Letts saying repeatedly over the years that he didn't have that much to do with the making of S18, he seems to have been rather more involved than he usually lets on, particularly when it came to reining in people who might have been tempted to take advantage of a comparatively inexperienced producer. Unfortunately I don't think Christopher Hamilton Bidmead comes out of things too well- the spat with Terrance Dicks doesn't exactly do either of them any great credit, but then again I suspect Dicks probably thought that if there was anything that wrong with his script, Robert Holmes would have pointed it out in 1977.

My own feeling is that although Who in 1980 probably needed Bidmead to sharpen up the scripts and pitch the level of the writing slightly higher, unfortunately he isn't a natural dramatic writer and it often shows.

[Si Hunt]

His comments about K9 annoyed me. "The one thing that John and I agreed on was that K9 should go. I didn't like all that childish business".

Yes, heaven forbid some children should watch Doctor Who! By the end of the year they had got their wish and five million of them had buggered off!

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

What they could have done, of course, is kept Bidmead's rewrite of State of Decay, but put it out under some bland pseudonym.

Well, it worked the first time...

[SiHart]

His comments about K9 annoyed me. "The one thing that John and I agreed on was that K9 should go. I didn't like all that childish business"

They annoyed Lalla Ward too, and she lets him know what she thinks on the Warriors' Gate commentary.

Si xx

[Logo Polish]

Although K9 had already become the longest serving companion by the time he left, if you count both of them together, so it's not really all that surprising. For all the Bidmead and JNT/Williams and Adams politics, he was probably bound to be leaving sooner or later, whoever had taken over in 1980.

[Andrew Curnow]

Possibly JN-T genuinely thought the K9 spin-off would be a big hit, so was hoping to increase his portfolio rather than kill off Doctor Who's popularity with the kids!

[Wayne]

Mine's now been despatched. The extras seem interesting from your discussions.

[shada pavlova]

What they could have done, of course, is kept Bidmead's rewrite of State of Decay, but put it out under some bland pseudonym.

David Agnew must be turning in his grave...