Dalek chronology?

[Pip Madeley]

parting of the Ways sucked

You been on the champagne cocktails, son?

[Raston]

No, i think i'd need something stronger than Champagne to sit through it-it aint no doomsday! And it certainly ain't as good as anything in series 2!

[Pip Madeley]

No, i think i'd need something stronger than Champagne to sit through it-it aint no doomsday! And it certainly ain't as good as anything in series 2!

Not wanting to veer off-topic, but it is a Dalek story, so what didn't you like about it?

[Raston]

It totally undermined any threat and power that had been built up around them. It reversed all the good work of Dalek. daleks are now weak and there is no reson for the Doctor to fear them. So why should the viewers?

[Pip Madeley]

It totally undermined any threat and power that had been built up around them. It reversed all the good work of Dalek. daleks are now weak and there is no reson for the Doctor to fear them. So why should the viewers?

I wouldn't have said that. They had him stitched up like a kipper by the closing moments - if it wasn't for Rose messing around with the TARDIS, he'd have been exterminated...

[Doctor Vendetta]

Remembrance of the Daleks (invalidated by events of the time war)

How would Remembrance be invalidated by the time war?

"Genesis of the Daleks" and "The Daleks" are surely alternate versions of the same history - originally the Daleks were called the Dals, and evolved into Daleks, then the Doctor went back and changed things in "Genesis", and their creator survived whereas he presumably didn't previously, leading to the Davros timeline.

Si.

One theory I read in an online Dalek Chronology was that two factions of Daleks developed on Skaro. The first lot were the force mutated ones developed by Davros and entombed in their bunker by the Thals at the end of Genesis.

The second lot were Kaleds who mutated naturaly over generations, discovered copies of Davros's early designs for travel machines, built the great metal city to accomodate them, called themselves Daleks and over time retconned the original name of their species to the Dals to match. These were the relatively weak and easy to defeat Daleks that could be defeated with mud and rubber sheeting that appeared in The Daleks. They were all killed in their metal city, whereas the ones in the bunker survived, grew stronger, and when the time was right emerged to invade the Earth.

When the Doctor said that the Daleks he and the schoolteachers wiped out must have been in the far future he's obviously just guessing.

He guessed wrong.

[Rob McCow]

He guessed wrong.

Not necessarily - everyone's guessing here.

You can make up what you like, but the only facts are that it doesn't make much sense.

Planet of the Daleks may come after The Daleks, because the Thals mentioned that they had met the Doctor before. But it might not, because there might be another, unbroadcast story where they met the Daleks and the Thals.

There could be hundreds of Dalek factions, all serving under different Emperors. There might only be one and the Emperor might be invincible. There's no proof!

[Jeff]

Where do you place the Cushing movies?

That is the version of the Doctor in a parallel universe. Like how the Brig had an eyepatch, Mickey was Rickey, and Lister was a Hologram and Kochansky went into stasis.

[Anthony Williams]

How would Remembrance be invalidated by the time war?

It's a guess. Basically, it figured to me there would be a few Daleks left after Rememberance (and it certainly seems that Davros escaped), so in the event of a time-war, where both sides are changing history to gain the upper hand, that the Daleks would have reversed the destruction of Skaro.

Ant x

[Milky Tears]

I get all my Dalek Chronology info from the big essay in About Time 1.

[Andy Frankham]

And don't forget Tennant saying "I was there at the fall of Archetryx".

When did he say that? In Doomsday he said he was there at the fall of Arcadia. Did he ever mention Archetryx?

That's what I was about to say.

As for the Time War. It clearly begins in 'Genesis' when the Time Lords actively take a stand against the potential future of the Daleks. We see the Daleks fighting back in 'Ressurection' when they create duplicates of the Doctor and Co to assisinate the High Council. And further, when the Doctor wipes out Skaro in 'Remembrance'.

[Jonno]

Don't forget that the Time Lords handily steer the Doctor and TARDIS to Spiridon. The Dalek Conquests CD, which was most enjoyable, also hypothesises that the Time Lords really started to be concerned about the Daleks after the events of Day and all the time travel shenanigans going on there (thus leading nicely in that nudge to Spiridon).

[Andy Frankham]

'The Time Lords sent you to this planet and.... oh my god, Daleks! What are they doing here? Oh yes, that's right, when we left the Ogron world you set the TARDIS to follow the Daleks here. Hmm. Hang on...'

God knows how they cocked that up between episodes.

But, yes, the Time Lords sending the Doctor to Spiridon could, indeed, be part of the Time War.

[Simon R]

Everybody has a point nowadays.

[Paul Clement]

No no no! The Daleks is the very final end of the Daleks, billions of years in the future at the end of time.

After The Chase, the Daleks start re-writing their history anyway. So I think it would go more like this:

CHRONOLOGY A:
Genesis of the Daleks (How it all began)
The Dalek Invasion of Earth (Daleks ascendant)
Planet of the Daleks
Death to the Daleks
Destiny of the Daleks (Movellan war, Daleks in decline)
Resurrection of the Daleks (Crude time corridor in use)
Revelation of the Daleks
Davros
The Juggernauts
The Daleks' Masterplan (Daleks develop crude time-travel, have to use other races to gain power)

TIME TRAVEL PERFECTED

CHRONOLGY B2:
Day of The Daleks (Never even happened!)

CHRONOLOGY B3:
Jubilee

CHRONOLOGY B:
The Genocide Machine
The Mutant Phaaaaaaaaaase!
The Apocalypse Element
Time of The Daleks (Still using mirrors!)
Evil of the Daleks (This would be the first thing they'd do, having been defeated by humanity so many times)
Remembrance of the Daleks (invalidated by events of the time war)

CHRONOLOGY C:
The Chase (The Daleks attempt to kill the Doctor, knowing that he would be their greatest threat in the time war)
Bad Wolf/The Empty Child
Doomsday
Dalek
Power of the Daleks (Time war fugitives?)
The Daleks (The Final End!)

Ask me about my Time War theory! I dare you

Surely, Planet of the Daleks has to come after Daleks. The Thals in the latter story are aware of the legend of the Doctor and his original companions from the former one, and you have to assume at this stage that the Thal chronology and Dalek chronology would match.

[Pip Madeley]

'The Time Lords sent you to this planet and.... oh my god, Daleks! What are they doing here? Oh yes, that's right, when we left the Ogron world you set the TARDIS to follow the Daleks here. Hmm. Hang on...'

God knows how they cocked that up between episodes.

Perhaps the (Third) Doctor was shocked at the Dalek having been invisible?

[Nathan]

This used to work for me - I never subscribed to the Genesis changing the course of history mallarky.

GENESIS

THE FIRST ONE
DALEK INVASION OF EARTH
POWER OF THE DALEKS

PLANET OF THE DALEKS (or vice versa)
DEATH TO THE DALEKS

DAY OF THE DALEKS (Daleks develop basic time travel technology and then go back to 22nd Century to reinvade)

THE CHASE (DARDIS technology)
THE DALEKS MASTERPLAN

DESTINY (Dalek technology resources fail after centuries of war with Movellans)
RESSURECTION (Daleks back to using time corridor technology)
REVELATION
EVIL
REMEMBERANCE (They use there limited temporal technology to go back to 1963. Skaro is destroyed in the future by the Hand of Omega)

The new stuff. Whether Doomsday predates Parting of the Ways is up for grabs.

[Andrew Curnow]

Hello Nathan, nice to see you. And nice to see your lovely new avater as well...

So, Daleks, Daleks, Daleks. Here's my two grotzits' worth:

Genesis
Dalek Invasion of Earth
Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks
Death to the Daleks
The Chase
Evil of the Daleks
Mission to t'Unknown/DMP
Destiny of the Daleks
Resurrection of the Daleks
Revelation of the Daleks
Dalek/Bad Wolf/TPOTW
Doomsday
The Chase
Remembrance of the Daleks

Day of the Daleks obviously never really happened, and since Power only concerns a lost capsule it could really fit in anywhere.

[Wayne]

and since Power only concerns a lost capsule it could really fit in anywhere.

Some time after 'Evil' since the Dalek recognises the Doctor in 'Power'.

That's all i have to add really. I've never given this subject that much thought.

[Doctor Vendetta]

Where would you place The Daleks?

[Andrew Curnow]

Ah, yes, good question. Um...

Mind you, Wayne, they also recognise the Doctor in Evil - in fact, other than in Day of the Daleks, don't they always seem to 'recognise' him, regardless of his physical appearance. Or maybe there's a missing 3rd Troughton Dalek story that, from the Dalek's POV, predates the other two.

As for "The Daleks" I would tend to place that very early in the day (as the Thals know of its events when they turn up in "Planet...") so probably between "Genesis..." and DioE.

[Andy Frankham]

I've never understood this placing 'Remembrance' after 'Parting of the Ways'. There is no way the Daleks of the new series can be from a time before any previous story... in every concievable way they piss over the Daleks of old. So, I'd put it like this;

'Remembrance'
'Dalek' (although I'm thinking these events don't happen any more since 'Doomsday' is set several years before, and there's no way Van Statten wouldn't know what the Dalek is)
'Parting of the Ways'
'Doomsday'

[Raston]

I've never understood this placing 'Remembrance' after 'Parting of the Ways'. There is no way the Daleks of the new series can be from a time before any previous story... in every concievable way they piss over the Daleks of old.

But do they? The Daleks in rememberance are only destroyed by a massive nitro-9 explosion or by a rocket at the eyestalk. We know from the new series that they eyestalk is a vulnerable part-as shown in Parting of the Ways. In rememberance the Daleks ignore the gunfire and even grenade blasts-and are only blown up by having plastic\ explosives attatched to them when they are disrupted by the doctors electronic thingy. The baseball bat was imbuned with the omega energy and thus rightly caused damage.

My point being is that at no point in Rememberance does anything happen to in anyway suggest the daleks don't actually have the same shields as they do in the new series. IMO they are show to be just as powerful a force as the new series ones.

[Rob McCow]

There is a vague implication in TPOTW that when the Time War started, the Daleks disappeared not from one point in history, but all points.

Every Dalek that ever existed may have been called up for the Time War, so all of their previous history was completely nerfed. The legend of the Daleks remained, but nothing else. If you're going after complete mastery of time, you'd want to get as much help as you can.

In this way, it would be impossible for the new Doctor to run into old-style Daleks, because they don't exist any more. Why else would he be so surprised when one turned up in Van Statten's museum? Perhaps it's becasue they had been utterly erased from history, so the Doctor really wasn't expecting to see any Daleks ever again. He realised pretty quickly this Dalek was a survivor of the Time War, rather than assuming it was an 'Old school' Dalek.

[Logo Polish]

So how come Roderick knows who they were, and that they existed thousands of years earlier?