Michael Jackson - Making Money

[Andrew Curnow]

Some interesting posts here, and Si's was particularly interesting to read because as I said before, I don't really know all that much about music - so other than the singles, I'm not familiar with much of MJ's output (there are a few titles being bandied round this thread, for example, that I know nothing about).

But for all that I'm not really 'into' music and was never an MJ fan even during the 80s... for all that, I've found my thoughts returning to him a lot throughout today. Claudia said that 'everybody' at school kept on about it, and I think that for whatever reason it has 'touched' everybody. I don't know why really, but somehow it is a big 'event' and one that people will probably always remember.

[Si Hunt]

The one thing that's always struck me about Michael Jackson is that he seems to have led a very sad life. Abused from a young age by his own father, then thrust into the limelight at aged 8. It's no wonder that a number of people made the accusation that he "never grew up" - after all, what sort of childhood must he have had?

Undoubtedly hugely self-conscious, hence numerous rhinoplasties. Likewise, he was diagnosed with vitiligo, which is why he had his skin bleached. Some say that he had his skin bleached due to a desire to be white - although given how distressing a condition like vitiligo can be, I suspect that this is completely false, although no-one bar his immediate family can be sure. He was also diagnosed with lupus, an auto-immune disorder, that was in remission.

No-one was ever entirely sure as to whether he had large amounts of plastic surgery to his face - supposedly numerous rhinoplasties, a forehead lift, thinned lips and cheekbone surgery. However, others have attributed his radical change in appearance due to annorexia. Again, it's not something that we are ever likely to know.

The two sets of allegations of paedophilia undoubtedly had a major impact on his mental state, even though he was found innocent on both occasions. His affinity towards children undoubtedly drew much criticism since the early 90s. He began taking prescription painkillers, which have been rumoured to be what brought on the heart attack that is being reported to have killed him.

There was, of course, the whole Bashir documentary farce, which brought about the second set of charges of child abuse, as well as showing how he had no concept of how the real world works. This, of course, all went on at the same time as the whole dangling-baby-off-a-balcony incident.

There are hundreds of examples of his eccentricity, but there can be little doubt that the man was a musical genius. Spawning numerous hit albums (as well as Invisible), with many fantastic songs. But every genius has something to counter that - and in Michael Jackson's case, that was undoubtedly at the cost of his health, both physical and mental.

Although I rarely appreciated his music, it is clear to me that the world has lost someone who had a great deal of influence amongst many, many musicians from the late 70s to the present.

However, what also seems clear to me is that although Michael Jackson died yesterday, the King of Pop had died ten years ago.

Very thoughtfully written post there Ant, I think I agree with most of that.

Si.

[Alex]

I'm genuinely very sad to hear that so many on here have been affected by his death - whilst personally I've no reaction to this situation, other celebrity deaths have upset me - and I'm sorry that the last 24 hours have been difficult for them.

The two sets of allegations of paedophilia undoubtedly had a major impact on his mental state, even though he was found innocent on both occasions.

Out of respect to my friends on here I won't post my personal opinions - but I do take umbrage with the above as it's re-writing history somewhat, as with the first case concerning Jordan Chandler, Jackson was never found innocent as he paid the boy $22 million and so the case was dropped.

Again, my intention is not to upset anyone, and my thoughts are with anyone who has been upset during this period, but I don't think it's fair that statements are made like that when they aren't actually true.

[Si Hunt]

But it's hardly a massive distortion of the truth though, is it Alex? He still faced one massive trial, and proved his innocence.

On the first occasion, he wasn't found innocent but I can understand why he paid the boy off when he could afford to, rather than risk a miscarriage of justice. They threw everything they could at him at the second trial to try and convict him, and it turned out there was not a shred of evidence against him - it was all total lies from people looking to make money out of him. It seems likely to be that the Chandler case was the same - they didn't have to accept the money, if they were that keen on justice they could have turned it down and gone to trial. But, what a surprise, they took the cash.

One thing few people remark on is that a lot of the children Jackson invited to his home and spent time with were terminally ill, some of them with cancer. If his sharing his home with kids was for an alterior motive, I can't see why this would be the case.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

The Los Angeles County Coroner has said that Michael Jackson's autopsy has been completed, with no evidence of foul play. According to TMZ, more testing will be required on the star's body before the cause of death can be confirmed.

The coroner said that the entire process could take up to six weeks, while toxicology and other results are gathered. He revealed that there was "no indication of foul play", but that the singer had been taking "prescription medications".

It was also confirmed that Jackson was pronounced dead at the UCLA Medical Centre's emergency room. His body will be released in the early hours of tomorrow morning.

Dr Conrad Murray, who was with the 50-year-old when he suffered a fatal heart attack at his rented Holmby Hills home, has agreed to speak with LA police. A recording of the 911 call placed from Jackson's residence was released earlier today.

The transcript of the 911 call is here should anyone want to read it.

[Alex]

But it's hardly a massive distortion of the truth though, is it Alex? He still faced one massive trial, and proved his innocence.

Aw, I probably shouldn't have said anything as I know it's an emotive issue, and I really didn't want to upset anyone - but I do think there's an enormous difference between a man being found innocent and one who pays $22 million to avoid going to court.

I've read the transcripts of Jordan Chandler's statement (they were leaked a while back, and are on The Smoking Gun website) and something about them really leaves me feeling that it was quite possible that something did take place.

Of course I don't know whether he's innocent or not, only Chandler does now, but there are many things in them (including the fact that Jackson likes to sleep with children, something which didn't emerge until the Bashir interview many years later) that makes me feel very uncomfortable.

But again, I don't want to upset anyone, but I did feel that it needed to be pointed out that what had been written above wasn't actually true, that's all.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I think no-one would deny he was a troubled individual. But he was also very talented.

I think an event like this it's appropriate to remember an artist at their best, and for the work which will live on. I'm no major fan, but I think he did produce some great tracks.

However I'm respectful of Si's obvious passion in his posts over this issue. I was only mulling myself how frustrating it can be when one of your heroes is villainised or misunderstood by many.

[Stuart Wallis]

I suppose HMV are going to argue that they're only giving people what they want- any musician's death tends to spark a fresh interest in their work, and (particularly in a recession) it would be asking a lot of HMV or any other retailer to say "sorry, we've decided to take all his CDs off the shelves as a mark of respect".

I see your point; I should have been specific. Yesterday I happened to pass an HMV, and I daresay they had some of Michael's CDs in the usual place. They were playing one of his songs and thought fair enough, it's a tribute. On top of that, they had some CDs in front of house. It just annoyed me that they could bung them all in the front door with no sympathy for fans who had them all already. As record shops tend to put their stock in alphabetical order, it's not much of a leap of the imagination, surely? I wouldn't have minded if they'd put them out today, but it seems less of a mark of respect to put them out immediately, more a corporate bandwagon.

[Pip Madeley]

This is a new one on me:

Lady GaGa was reportedly "hysterical" when she found out Michael Jackson had died.

The 'Paparazzi' singer reportedly cancelled all interviews before her Glastonbury debut after hearing the news and refused to leave her tour bus.

A source said: "GaGa was hysterical with grief. She could not be consoled and spent the day on the phone to her producer RedOne in America.

"They penned hits 'Poker Face' and 'Just Dance' together. He had been working with Michael on new material recently and was beside himself."

The pop superstar died on Thursday at the age of 50.

MJ co-wrote the two biggest hits of the year?

[Stuart Wallis]

Gwen Stefani, I thought?

[Pip Madeley]

Oh, hold on, they mean the producer was beside himself. GaGa was gaga?

[Stuart Wallis]

Well we're both confused now! time for a lie-down...

[Perry Vale]

It could be interesting to see what (unfinished) MJ tracks turn up in the coming months/years, if any. Wasn't he working on a comeback album (without Sony) a couple of years ago? I wonder if anything was demoed?

[duncan]

I'm sure the "This is it" concerts were to promote a new album.

[Pip Madeley]

They were to raise money for his debts surely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is...ckson_concerts)

[Si Hunt]

No, the "This Is It" concerts wern't to promote a new album.

There was one being recorded (a TV feature I saw showed footage of Jackson in the studio with Will.i.am) but I don't know how close it was to completion. He'd done tracks with Akon as well.

MJ co-wrote the two biggest hits of the year?

No, Gaga cowrote them with RedOne.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

a TV feature I saw showed footage of Jackson in the studio with Will.i.am

Mmm, they recorded 'The Girl Is Mine' last year didn't they?

[Anthony Williams]

I swear that I heard that he'd recorded over 100 tracks that he'd put in storage to be released after his death, in order to support his children?

Ant x

[Captain Tancredi]

One thing few people remark on is that a lot of the children Jackson invited to his home and spent time with were terminally ill, some of them with cancer. If his sharing his home with kids was for an alterior motive, I can't see why this would be the case.

Sadly, Si, I think the kind of people who would automatically read a sexual motive into Jackson spending so much time close to children would probably think it very convenient that many of them were unlikely to be able to testify against him at a later date.

I was sitting opposite a girl who was obviously some sort of media student on a train today- she was talking about handing her dissertation in- and said to her friend "Looking at the way everything happened, it'd be really interesting to do a dissertation on how the story broke and the reactions. But he didn't cop it last year".

[Pip Madeley]

Lisa Marie Presley has posted this on MySpace:

He Knew.
Years ago Michael and I were having a deep conversation about life in general.
I can't recall the exact subject matter but he may have been questioning me about the circumstances of my Fathers Death.
At some point he paused, he stared at me very intensely and he stated with an almost calm certainty, "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did."
I promptly tried to deter him from the idea, at which point he just shrugged his shoulders and nodded almost matter of fact as if to let me know, he knew what he knew and that was kind of that.
14 years later I am sitting here watching on the news an ambulance leaves the driveway of his home, the big gates, the crowds outside the gates, the coverage, the crowds outside the hospital, the Cause of death and what may have led up to it and the memory of this conversation hit me, as did the unstoppable tears.
A predicted ending by him, by loved ones and by me, but what I didn't predict was how much it was going to hurt when it finally happened.
The person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the LA County Coroners office for his Autopsy.
All of my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.
I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.
Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.
I wanted to "save him" I wanted to save him from the inevitable which is what has just happened.
His family and his loved ones also wanted to save him from this as well but didn't know how and this was 14 years ago. We all worried that this would be the outcome then.
At that time, In trying to save him, I almost lost myself.
He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated.
When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad.
Mediocrity was not a concept that would even for a second enter Michael Jackson's being or actions.
I became very ill and emotionally/ spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him.
I was in over my head while trying.
I had my children to care for, I had to make a decision.
The hardest decision I have ever had to make, which was to walk away and let his fate have him, even though I desperately loved him and tried to stop or reverse it somehow.
After the Divorce, I spent a few years obsessing about him and what I could have done different, in regret.
Then I spent some angry years at the whole situation.
At some point, I truly became Indifferent, until now.
As I sit here overwhelmed with sadness, reflection and confusion at what was my biggest failure to date, watching on the news almost play by play The exact Scenario I saw happen on August 16th, 1977 happening again right now with Michael (A sight I never wanted to see again) just as he predicted, I am truly, truly gutted.
Any ill experience or words I have felt towards him in the past has just died inside of me along with him.
He was an amazing person and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years that we had together.
I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now.
He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place or will be.
I also hope that anyone else who feels they have failed to help him can be set free because he hopefully finally is.
The World is in shock but somehow he knew exactly how his fate would be played out some day more than anyone else knew, and he was right.


I really needed to say this right now, thanks for listening.

~LMP

Must've taken a lot for her to write all that.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm sure she feels all those things, but I don't actually think we can read anything all that deep into "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did." I'm not even sure it's actually true is it? But either way, to try and make some kind of 'he knew' mystique around this tragedy is stretching a point.

[Si Hunt]

I agree! Some might say that forecasting that you will die at some point gives you substantial odds on a correct prediction.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

I can't recall the exact subject matter but he may have been questioning me about the circumstances of my Fathers Death.
At some point he paused, he stared at me very intensely and he stated with an almost calm certainty, "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did."

Well, given the ideas people have about what happened to Elvis, comments like that are bread and wine for the conspiracy theorists.

[Si Hunt]

Unless he had a particuarly black sense of humour, if Jackson had eerily forecast his death, it's unlikely he'd have arranged 50 dates at the O2 immediately beforehand.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

My belief is that everything got on top of him and he decided to take his own life. The rumours that they were nowhere near ready for the 13th July start date coupled with reports of health problems, plus the financial stress... it may have culminated in an overdose...

But who knows.