Space & Science

[Zbigniev Hamson]

It's a point I often have to bring up on other forums for people who think NASA should send something to the Moon just to take really high res images of the old Apollo hardware.

Someone else should definitely do that though, just to put the rumours to rest once and for all but not NASA themselves for obvious reasons.

[Jason Thompson]

i think sometimes nasa just doesnt get it and has forgotten how to inspire and educate ppl.

There I agree with you. An agency funded by public money should make more of an effort to show what benefits are being offered from the funding. That was why the landings on the Moon stopped. The inspiration, beating the commies, was gone after the first landing, and NASA couldn't find a way to make two men picking up rocks on a grey landscape inspiring enough for people to want to continue to see their tax dollars spent on it.

However the fact remains that these things can't be frittered away on nice images and fun things like watching a man hit a golf ball on the Moon. There has to be some other practical return, and getting that return is often very dull to the layman. I am currently engaged in work that will, if successful, produce a fantastic new blood testing device that could be of great benefit to everyone. To get to that stage I have had to do years of some frankly very dull stuff that, if you were funding me, you might think was a waste of time and meaningless to you. You may well find the end product of all the dull work very useful, however.

NASA's inspirational nature, at the moment, is more to do with the spin-offs that have come from all the 'rubbish' space research they have done. Even the sport of hang-gliding has its roots in NASA's Gemini program. Bet you didn't know that.

[Jason Thompson]

Someone else should definitely do that though, just to put the rumours to rest once and for all but not NASA themselves for obvious reasons.

It won't put the rumours to rest. Not even remotely. Some people have a vested interest in keeping them alive, and others are not going to be convinced by a few new pictures when they already dismiss thousands of others, along with hours and hours of video and film, millions of pages of documentation, hundreds of pounds of lunar rock and soil samples, etc. Seriously, some of these people are happy to write off entire branches of science and claim that the whole cold war was staged just to avoid having to admit they might be wrong. New pictures will be great for enthusiasts, and might persuade some fence-sitters, but will certainly not stop the conspiracy theories.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Okay okay.... it was just a joke

[Dirk Gently]

Could have been, if you can find a suitable scientific justification for doing so.

Fair point.

Funding, despite the popular misconception, is not thrown at space science willy-nilly.

I never said it was, but it's just that 3 infrared telescopes seems ovekill where two would do surely?

People in the field have to really fight their corner to secure the money, and that money is secured based on potential returns.

I'm sure they do, a lot of accademic researchers have to fight for funding.

Unfortunately, 'because the images look cool' is not in itself a justification for spending the millions on these things.

I never said it was & neither will you ever hear me say so.

[Fate]

Even the sport of hang-gliding has its roots in NASA's Gemini program. Bet you didn't know that.

wow that puts it all into clarity. all those billions of tax dollars in the space race to produce an elitist persuit for accountants and managers

[Fate]

Unfortunately, 'because the images look cool' is not in itself a justification for spending the millions on these things.

it absoluteley is though. it is good pr. it allows the public to buy in and get behind the work nasa does. it makes the work more relevent and real to people. yes not EVERY thing that nasa does should be like that. but nether should ppl misunderestimate its importence

my mom said the apollo programme went on for years. but it was images like the blue marbel and neil armstrong on the moon which really made what was achieved real for ppl

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Why aim that low though? Why just assume that ordinary people are too stupid and unsophisticated to care about anything unless it makes pretty pictures? Surely it's better try and get them on board with what you're ACTUALLY trying to do, rather than fob them off with a few nice pictures and hope they don't bother asking what you do the other 95% of hte time.

[Jason Thompson]

it absoluteley is though. it is good pr.

This is very true, but I said it was not a justification in itself. Good pr is not worth millions of dollars and a rocket. You have to get some information out of it. The same people who complain about wasted money in space will have a field day if they just send up a glorified camera to take nice pictures.

my mom said the apollo programme went on for years. but it was images like the blue marbel and neil armstrong on the moon which really made what was achieved real for ppl

Absolutely, but the scientific returns from the missions made them significant. If they'd sent men to the Moon just to take pictures of men on the Moon then it would have been a colossal waste of funds.

[Jason Thompson]

Why aim that low though? Why just assume that ordinary people are too stupid and unsophisticated to care about anything unless it makes pretty pictures? Surely it's better try and get them on board with what you're ACTUALLY trying to do, rather than fob them off with a few nice pictures and hope they don't bother asking what you do the other 95% of hte time.

Damn right. Personally, I find the idea of looking back to the origins of the entire Universe incredibly interesting, so I'm quite jazzed about these telescopes even though they won't make nice pictures for me to hang on my wall.

[Jason Thompson]

wow that puts it all into clarity. all those billions of tax dollars in the space race to produce an elitist persuit for accountants and managers

Well, if you insist on being like that, all those billions of dollars helped get your computer to the way it is now, made hand held video cameras possible, led to worldwide communication networks, a greater understanding of our own world and its climate, GPS, medical advances, and all sorts of other benefits besides that your almost certainly make regular use of without appreciating that they had their roots in the drive to put men on the Moon.

[Jason Thompson]

it's just that 3 infrared telescopes seems ovekill where two would do surely?

Depends on a) who's building and operating them, and b) what their missions are. By that logic having so many optical telescopes built and operated around the world is overkill. Just because they're both IR telescopes doesn't mean they'll be used for the same things.

The Herschel and Webb IR telescopes are operated by different agencies, and are looking at different parts of the IR spectrum. Herschel is looking at far infra-red and sub-millimetre, while Webb is looking at near infra-red. Getting two up there will increase the amount of work that can be done.

The other mentioned in the report in the link is a microwave telescope looking at the cosmic background microwave radiation. Different scope, different function.

[MinaHarker]

Okay okay.... it was just a joke

Never joke with Jason about the moon hoaxers.... it's worse than black holes. Trust me!

[MinaHarker]

wow that puts it all into clarity. all those billions of tax dollars in the space race to produce an elitist persuit for accountants and managers

Here is a link to what NASA has given the world:

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

I have to say, I do not like your attitude.

[Andrew Curnow]

I've just seen Jason's explanation of strange matter. Thanks very much for that!!!

[Paul Monk]

Moon landing not a hoax? Have you EVER seen the film Capricorn !?

(Just kidding Jason. Please don't kill me!)

[Paul Monk]

Getting back to quarks again, I find the idea fascinating. I remember learning about them in A Level Physics and I thought it was so cool.

[Andrew Curnow]

Quarks aren't as good as chumblies.

[Jason Thompson]

Moon landing not a hoax? Have you EVER seen the film Capricorn !?

What, the one where they try to fake a mission to Mars and utterly fail when one of the supposedly dead astronauts turns up at his own memorial service? That one?

[Paul Monk]

Yes that one!

[Fate]

I have to say, I do not like your attitude.

well a lot of ppl dont get me. there loss

[Dirk Gently]

well a lot of ppl dont get me. there loss

English not being your first language I take it?

[Fate]

English not being your first language I take it?

que?

[MinaHarker]

well a lot of ppl dont get me. there loss

Doesn't mean you can be sarky and rude though.

[SiHart]

Ok everyone, can you all please stop this sniping at each other before it gets out of hand.

Thanks,
Si xx