Episodes 12 & 13: Captain Jack Harkness/End of Days

[davethesailor]

Right , here goes!

I really enjoyed the first 11 episodes of Torchwood. After episode two, I decided not to view it as connected to Doctor Who, but as a sci fi programme in it's own right. Of course, it was not perfect. I think it lacked on character development early on. It took about 7 episiodes before I could reel off the names of the main characters. But overall, I really enjoyed it and despite some faults, thought it was still one of the best bits of telly currently available.

I hated episodes 12 & 13 of Torchwood. In fact, at one point I nearly switched off in a hissy fit of rage!

I'll try and explain what went wrong, although it's difficult trying to explain it through the medium of typing.

The main thing that went wrong, was that it just lost all sense of realism. I simply did not believe a lot of the events that happened.

Captain Jack meeting the real Captain Jack. I had a major issue with how this was portrayed. I mean it was meant to have been set in the 40's and are we really expected to believe that two army personnel could feasibly start smooching on the dance floor with the only comment being, "what are they doing"? Eveyone else just stood back and seemed to give an affectionate aaaaahhh. It's bollocks. It would never have happened then and would not even happen now. Don't forget that the real Captain Jack had only just publicly said goodbye to his girfriend. It was shoddy, crap writing and pissed me off! I'm all for gay realationships being normailsed on telly, but for goodness sake, be true to the era whilst you are doing it.

Ianto shooting Owen. So, we have Owen desperatley trying to operate the bit of equipment that Torchwood very conveniently owned that could miraculously open the time rift. Ianto disagreed with Owens actions and decided to shoot him! I mean for goodness sake. Are we supposed to believe that Ianto would actually shoot his colleague, that he could not find any alternative way of stopping him. I mean, if Torchwood have a Time Rift opening/closing device, surely they must have a harmless stun gun?

After the shooting is over, we then see Ianto and Owen still working together, with only a slight air of hostility. I mean for goodness sake. Owen had just been shot by his mate. He could have died. I just did not believe it.

I'm sure you can imagine how I felt when Captain Jack then got shot by his team later on in similar circumstances.

I realse that they were all stressed and scared, but they had all been trained to deal with that type of pressure. Again, surely if they really did feel strongly, they could have drugged him or something less severe.

Then he was brought back to life after a kiss from Gwen. ........ I could have killed myself.

Ironically, I'm happy to believe in beasts emerging from the core of the earth, but not in two guys snogging in full military gear at a works do!

Other than the piss poor, shamefull writing, I loved it...

[Paul Monk]

I love when Dave gets angry.

[Rob McCow]

I agree with Dave's point about the gay dance, I was a bit worried that someone in the crowd was going to just shoot them both. What bugged me more was that it was a 'tender romantic moment' between two people who had only met this episode and didn't really have much cause to fall in love. (Like that Doctor Who episode everyone likes... )

Fortunately, I was sufficiently distracted by Bilis Manger and Sato writing in her own blood to let such things ruin the episode for me. Yay!

[Dave Lewis]

I think too much has been made of the response (or lack thereof) to the two Jacks kissing. We saw them kiss, and we saw people standing looking a bit shocked around them. We don't know what happened to the real Captain Jack after "our" Captain Jack stepped back into the rift. Maybe he was giving a good kicking for being a poof, then arrested, court-martialled, and sentenced to death.

[Paul Monk]

This is true. I think there would have been a degree of shock from the onlookers because it is so unlikely to have happened that it would have taken a while before anyone would have responded.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm glad to hear Dave didn't 'buy it' either, because it really ruined the episode for me, as it was just so unrealistic. And frankly, in 1941, wouldn't the outcome for the real Captain Jack have been that he was immediately suspended from command, so didn't fly the next day, and consequently our Jack has changed the course of history. Interfering beggar!

Or at the very least, he would have totally lost the confidence of his men, which would make their mission the next day a rather difficult affair I think.

[Dave Lewis]

In 1941, wouldn't the outcome for the real Captain Jack have been that he was immediately suspended from command, so didn't fly the next day, and consequently our Jack has changed the course of history. Interfering beggar!

Would military justice really have been so swift? I was being facetious about the court martial et al that I mentioned in my previous post, but would things really have moved so quickly that Captain Jack couldn't lead what was merely a training operation (or whatever it was) the following day? I think quite possibly not.

Or at the very least, he would have totally lost the confidence of his men, which would make their mission the next day a rather difficult affair I think.

Perhaps he did - perhaps there was a way in which his men could have saved him, but their prejudices swayed them into not helping him. After all, they all survived and he didn't.

Or maybe... just maybe... the fact that they'd seen two people walk into a blinding shaft of light and disappear made the sight of two blokes snogging seem a little less unbelievable than it may have done under other circumstances. Or maybe the rift closing up after Jack and Tosh had returned to the future wiped their memories or even the kiss from existence, as it did when Rhys was amazingly returned to life in the following episode.

Pick any one of my answers as a decent enough justification for what was, in my opinion, a really wonderful moment.

[Logo Polish]

The men there weren't the men he was due to lead into action, that was a different regiment which wasn't there, AIUI.

I have a feeling the original idea might have been that none of the others would have been able to witness the two Jacks kissing because of being frozen in stasis, with only the latter two people being conscious of the rift re-opening, but that this may have got a bit lost during production.

[Dr Crewe]

CAPTAIN JACK HARKNESS was a terrific episode and shows what the series can be about if it tries just that little bit harder!