Why didn't the War Chief regenerate?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

(throwing the cat amongst the pigeons)

Of course the War Chief is still around ... ever notice how you've never seen the Brigadier look into his pocket watch ...

[Andrew Curnow]

I always thought the War Chief had made the SIDRATs based on the TARDIS, but rewatching The War Games last week it's made pretty clear in the exchange between t'Chief & t'Doctor that this isn't the case. The implication is that he stole the SIDRATs from the Timelords (quite how he managed that I don't know) but I suppose he's modified them to enable remote control - removing the control console, perhaps, to stop the War Lords mob getting a really good look at it.

Of course, the Doctor is himself given a remote control for his TARDIS by the Time Lords in The Two Doctors - and I think (from memory) that the Rani has one as well in the preceding story.

There was once (to go off at a complete tangent, ish) an interview with JN-T in DWM where I'm sure he said something like (in respect of the issue of continuity) that he liked to use it where it fitted nicely, but would not veto a good story just because it contradicted something Patrick Troughton had said 16 years ago!! I think that was just a hypothetical example, but bizarrely it fits the remote control 'discontinuity' situation to a tee!!

[Andrew Curnow]

Of course the War Chief is still around ... ever notice how you've never seen the Brigadier look into his pocket watch ...

Brilliant, Mike!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Of course, the Doctor is himself given a remote control for his TARDIS by the Time Lords in The Two Doctors - and I think (from memory) that the Rani has one as well in the preceding story.

It was the 80s, and you couldn't get more hi-tech than a remote control!

If I remember, the War Lord at his trial mentions the War Chief "one of your own people" had supported him ...

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I've just realised your avatar is an inverted white crow (oddly enough), and not a prawn, as I had thought, at all.

[Wayne]

I've always wondered why 'White Crow' as a user name.......
People have some shall we say 'interesting' choices for user names sometimes.

Don't they Zb....Zbig.... Oh bloody hell, what was wrong with Joe Capricorn anyway!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I've just realised your avatar is an inverted white crow (oddly enough), and not a prawn, as I had thought, at all.

That is of course because I'm White Crow ... but I'm in New Zealand ...

Don't they Zb....Zbig....

Damn Poles get everywhere!

[Zbigniev Hamson]

So do prawns

[Stuart Wallis]

I'd heard that before and believed it was true too, until I last watched it and heard Goth say TARDIS several times. I think it's one of those urban Who legends that grew up because they start off using the term "TT capsule", but they also use the term TARDIS in the same story, before the Doctor has even spoken to anyone. And don't the Time Lords at the end of The War Games say something about "taking the secret of the TARDIS" from the Doctor too?

Ah! so those of us who've not seen The War Games in awhile are the victim of a bit of a continuity error, it seems.

And take your prawns with you!

[Jason Thompson]

Well that's why I went on to say that I was shooting myself in the foot by criticising stories people like, as it detracted from what I was actually saying, which was the second paragraph really.

You're welcome to criticise whatever you like. I'm not complaining about that. I just can't see that criticising a story for being rubbish if you strip out the main thrust of it is particularly valid. My enjoyment of the story is irrelevant. School Reunion is about Sarah Jane and her relationship with the Doctor, so of course the rest of it will be a bit poor if you take that stuff out, because it's only the backdrop for the main story. As I said, take out Khan and the revenge plot from Star Trek II and it's just a run-of-the-mill story about a madman trying to get a superweapon.

[Captain Tancredi]

Has anybody else noticed how Heather hasn't been back to this thread since Monday? Can't think why...

[Jamie McCrimmon]

Because I've just moved house and still haven't got my internet connected, I can only get online at my sisters house

I think I might have another go at the 'why can't Romana come back in the new series' next...

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Because she's stuck in another universe (or the dead President of a dead world if you insist). Or.... she could.

[shada pavlova]

Did Donna have a fob watch?

[johnnybear]

I never used to think the War Chief was the Master but upon a long thinking about this subject I now think he is! The Time Lord in Terror of The Autons tells the Doctor that his old friend has arrived on earth looking for him and now calls himself the Master! so he has only recently changed his title as such. Could be he was the chief but is now the Master plus it sort of explains why Delgado's Master hates the Pertwee Doctor so much rather than a petty feud at University with the Hartnell edition lasting over the centuries plus the Troughton Doctor seems to know the Ainley Master straight away in The Five Doctors, which is supposedly set after The War Games so...
JB

[tony ingram]

I never used to think the War Chief was the Master but upon a long thinking about this subject I now think he is! The Time Lord in Terror of The Autons tells the Doctor that his old friend has arrived on earth looking for him and now calls himself the Master! so he has only recently changed his title as such. Could be he was the chief but is now the Master plus it sort of explains why Delgado's Master hates the Pertwee Doctor so much rather than a petty feud at University with the Hartnell edition lasting over the centuries plus the Troughton Doctor seems to know the Ainley Master straight away in The Five Doctors, which is supposedly set after The War Games so...
JB

Except that quite aside from the fact that the War Chief resurfaces in an early New Adventures novel, Terrance Dicks repeatedly stated that he and the Master were two entirely separate characters, and since he created or co-created both of them, he should know.

[johnnybear]

But originally he did say they were the same character. It only became such a sore point because the term regeneration hadn't been invented at that point and the Chief is left dying in the SIDRAT bay! Later on Terry said they were different characters but when showing the Chief regenerating in the novel he described his new incarnation in exactly the same way he did the Delgado Master! He probably loved to wind up the fans!
JB

[tony ingram]

But originally he did say they were the same character. It only became such a sore point because the term regeneration hadn't been invented at that point and the Chief is left dying in the SIDRAT bay! Later on Terry said they were different characters but when showing the Chief regenerating in the novel he described his new incarnation in exactly the same way he did the Delgado Master! He probably loved to wind up the fans!
JB

But he killed the War Chief off in Timewyrm: Exodus. Yes, he is shown to regenerate, but he's then engulfed in flames, the implication being that he dies.

[johnnybear]

I don't remember as I read that book so long ago!
JB

[tony ingram]

I don't remember as I read that book so long ago!
JB

I reread it last year. My interpretation of the scene was that just before he was consumed by the flames, Ace saw him in his original form as Edward Brayshaw. That he effectively regenerated backwards before dying.

[johnnybear]

But Terrance described the new incarnation of the War Chief in the same way that he did the Roger Delgado incarnation of the Master!
JB

[tony ingram]

But Terrance described the new incarnation of the War Chief in the same way that he did the Roger Delgado incarnation of the Master!
JB

And then he died. And Terrance himself later confirmed that they weren't the same character. Terrance routinely reused phrases he happened to like, I don't see it as significant.

[johnnybear]

No it works better because we know more about the Time Lords now and it also lends weight to the feud between the Master and the Doctor! Why would the Master want revenge on the Doctor for a disagreement or a misunderstanding that happened back at the Academy on Gallifrey? Plus by Edward Brayshaw becoming Roger Delgado gives us more reason for his wanting to destroy the Doctor surely?
JB

[johnnybear]

Told you I was right!
JB

[johnnybear]

He looks sinister, has Patrick Troughton really agitated and they have had a long and interesting relationship on Gallifrey or the Time Lord planet as it was identified back then! It seems too much of a push to think the Doctor had had such great friendships with two such similar characters in his life with the same outcome too!
JB