Big Finish - where did it all go wrong?

[Anthony Williams]

I've spent some time thinking about Big Finish recently, as I've been listening to some of my old CDs...

I was wondering where it had gone wrong. Even as (relatively) recently as 2005, there were a few decent releases, most notably Terror Firma.

I remember a time when people looked forward to the new release, where we were excited month after month by plays such as The Chimes of Midnight, Spare Parts, Project: Twilight and many, many others.

So, when did it all go wrong, and why? Did they stop using quality writers? Did the production values change? Did they over-saturate the market with too many different ranges set in the Doctor Who universe? Or was it simply that the return of Doctor Who to our television screens ruined our appreciation of Big Finish?

Ant x

[stuartdg]

Who says it's gone wrong?


The companion Chronicles are great,the monthly releases are consistent and there's plenty of other ranges which also are of great quality,Iris Wildthyme and Bernice Summerfield to name but two

[SiHart]

The monthly releases are coinsistently disappointing. We've stopped buying them. 120 releases in, it's come to ahlt after the crushing disappointment of every story not reacing its potential, or having yet another Dalek story (because they sell CDs) or another old enemy you never want to hear from again being brought back. I've stuck with BF through thick and then, but the last year or so has seen my interest wane bigtime.

Pinpointing where it went wrong though is incredibly difficult. I'm not sure there was a specific release that did- just a slow downturn in quailty propped up by the occasional gem that made you think things were going to turn round again. That's perhaps the saddest thing- that there were still good stories, but buried beneath the dross.

I think the sad thing has been that the writers who wrote the best stuff, Joe, Rob Shearman for the main part moved on, and there's been no-one to replace them. Eddie Robson has been the closest we've come as he's written some fab stories that really stand out.

Si xx

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Surely one problem was once the TV series came back, it kind of raised the bar for people's expectations.

It's a hard one to get a finger on the pulse of. I think one thing which as PS audios have picked up on, audio stories on the whole feel nearer and tidier when they're 2 episodes long over dragging over 4 episodes.

[Rob McCow]

In the main range, there hasn't been a classic release since "100". The Condemned, The Raincloud Man, The Doomwood Curse and The Haunting of Thomas Brewster have been good, but the rest have been largely forgettable, apart from the ones that were truly awful. When I say awful, I mean so bad that they made me shout at the CD player in a furious rage.

And the awful ones are, in my opinon: Time Reef, Kingdom of Silver, The Chaos Pool, Assassain in the Limelight, The Death Collectors and The Bride of Peladon.

Frankly, bringing back The Key To Time isn't an act of a bold exciting venture, moving forever forward. It's an act of stinking desperation.

[Wayne]

I started losing interest somewhere in between 64 (The Next Life) & 74 (Live 34) which was when i didn't renew my subscription.
The last really good ones i heard were 68 (Catch-1782), & 72 (Terror Firma).

I still maintain that most of the spin-offs have actually been much better on the whole than the main range. I've been saying this for about 2 or 3yrs, but nobody seems to take that much notice of the spin-offs.
Dalek Empre, Cyberman, I Davros, UNIT, Gallifrey, Sarah Jane Smith, & the Unbound BF's have largely been great IMO.

[stuartdg]

I disagree the McGann seasons have been fantastic and making seasons of releases benefits the listener in terms of continuity if anything the new series has merely made Big Finish raise their game,there's not one release this year I've not enjoyed regardless of whether it features an old enemy a new companion or anything else...

[SiHart]

I'm glad you've been enjoying them Stu, and I can't comment on the McGann ones as I haven't heard them since the end of the first series with Lucy. I've just loked back over the last year of BFs and there were a couple that I've really enjoyed- The Doomwood Curse, The Hauting of Thomas Brewster (despite its wretched production), The Boy Who Never Was, the second Key to Time one, but sadly for me the rest fall short for me. There are good ideas done badly, some excellent moments tucked away, but nothing stands out as in any way above the average and quite often the fall short of that. They've just left me feeling meh, or else very cross about them not living up to their potential.

Si xx

[Mr BHT]

Surely one problem was once the TV series came back, it kind of raised the bar for people's expectations.

Don't make me laugh!! Thirteen invasions of earth every year, with forced emotions crammed in at every oppurtunity. It's entertaining stuff, but nothing earth shattering Doctor Who wise - in fact a lot of New Who ideas are watered down versions of events the books and the audios had already done better.

I think if Big Finish has a problem it's simply familiarity. When they first started out they had a chance to give underused elements of the 'classic' TV Series a new lease of life. There was a real novelty in hearing new adventures featuring some of the rarer elements of the TV Series - who would have thought we'd get an Eighth Doctor era for instance? But now we're onto the eighth or ninth Eighth Doctor series, and it doesn't feel new anymore. It's the same with all their initial scoops like getting Bonnie Langford back, etc. There's just not that 'wow' factor anymore. A recent reliance on old foes isn't helping things either.

But that's not to say Big Finish haven't had their fair share of 'classics' in recent years - take a listen to The Girl Who Never Was, The Haunting of Thomas Brewster, Brotherhood of the Daleks, The Magic Mousetrap or The Raincloud Man - all great stories that would gain attention if there wasn't so much Doctor Who around to get lost in.

[Rob McCow]

Brotherhood of The Daleks is a case in point. There are loads of ideas that sound really cool, such as "Daleks who think they're Thals!!" and "Daleks embracing the ideals of Communism!!". But it all ends up being about eight ideas too many. The story gets lost. What is Brotherhood of The Daleks actually about? By the time I got to the last episode and the Charlie / Doctor stuff started up again, I was completely baffled.

If the writer had taken one of the cool ideas and developed it, or looked at it in detail, then there might have been something worthwhile. Near misses like this are more frustrating than plays that are outright good or bad.

Or maybe... it's seriousness. Very few of the plays have a sense of humour. There's the odd joke, but in general the range is po-faced and completely down-the-line earnest. Even the lighter stories like The Dark Husband are grim.

so much Doctor Who around to get lost in.

How many stories do BF give us each year? There's 12 in the main range, so that's already more than any Old Who season outside of the Hartnell era. Then there's about 6 McGann's, any number of specials (typically around another 6 in total) plus 6 of Bernice Summerfield.

[stuartdg]

There's actually 13 releases a year not including the subscriber bonus,plus a season of McGann,plus 12 companion chronicles.This is without including the 1 part stories included or indeed the Stage Plays/Lost Stories...


Admittedly I've not listened to one release this year so far,but then i haven't watched a classic series dvd yet either but my enjoyment hasn't diminished...

The Doomwood Curse,The Condemned,(most of) Forty-Five,The Boy That Time Forgot,The Raincloud Man and The Bride of Peladon were fantastic

Similairly with the Ccompanion Chronicles The Great Space Elevator,The Doll Of Death and Home Truths were top stuff

It's a case of each to their own I suppose

[Terileptil]

The DWADs keep their standards up by prohibiting the use of old monsters. We haven't heard a "proper" Cyberman story out of them since Space Trap in, I think was, the 90's. And I don't think I'm even that old.

[Si Hunt]

Do you know I'm here on my own almost every evening, I've run out of things to read, I can't phone people, the American telly is awful so I don't watch it, and I had a nine and a half hour flight to get here.

And I STILL haven't been motivated to listen to a Big Finish! I tried "Enemy of the Daleks" once, but I fell asleep before the end of Part 1.

Si.

[Jonno]

Go down the local bar, have a beer and chat to people. They'll love your accent! Hustle them at the pool table!

[Si Hunt]

I think I emphasised the wrong things in that last post, and made myself out to be a sad apartment-bound loner. I do go out sometimes.

Si.

[Jonno]

Oops, sorry if my post sounded a bit flippant, Si! I've been in a similar situation to you, when I spent 5 months in France when I was a student. The first month was very difficult, I didn't know anyone and felt very lonely. Being 20 years ago you felt more isolated too, with no mobile phones, no internet, no email, nothing. I survived on a few Target books I'd brought with me initially.

Luckily after the first month or so, I started to socialise with fellow colleagues where I was working and their families, plus some English people I met which was nice for the cultural sharing. I ended up really loving my time there (it helped that it became a long hot summer) but the first few weeks were tough.

Sorry for hijacking the thread too, but I realised I hadn't written to you directly since your sojourn! Good luck with the rest of it, and I look forward to hearing all your tales when you're back!

[MacNimon]

When are you due back, Si?

Before the end of November, hopefully?

[Si Hunt]

I'm back at the end of next week. It's been weird because people have rabbited on about "once in a lifetime opportunity" and how I should be jetting over to "NYC" and all this, but that's not really me. I've been generally comfortable and my trip has been a success work-wise... plus I've gone out almost every day for lunch with the folks here, and a good few evenings. But I'm not really interested in much else - I didn't ask to come here, and I'm here to help my job and that's all. I love home and I'll be glad to get back and see the people I've missed.

Anyway, we should get back on topic. This isn't the "Si Hunt - where did it all go wrong?" thread.

Si.

[Pip Madeley]

I think I emphasised the wrong things in that last post, and made myself out to be a sad apartment-bound loner. I do go out sometimes.

Si.

I've got an image of you up in your room dismantiling a Corby trouser press before nipping to the gas station for 12 bottles of windscreen washer fluid.

[Si Hunt]

They know I'm a man!!

Si.

[Lissa]

The new fashion for three story arcs (some say seasons) where each Doctor gets three CDs in a row rather than a random pot-pourri is working really well. I'm two thirds of the way through the Stockbridge trilogy and it is really very good indeed.

The seasons got off to a bumpy start with the Key II Time because the arc was too convoluted and contrived but since then it has been less intense and far more enjoyable.

Big Finish is suddenly going really well again.

[Simon R]

I thought the Stockbridge ones looked good in dwm. My trouble with audio plays is there's never an opportunity to listen to them. I'm way too tired in the evenings and it's too noisy in the car if we're on a journey. We managed to do the Nightmare Fair at a weekend but it was a struggle sitting down and doing it.

[Lissa]

I only ever listen to them in the car and it's ideal. The only downside is they've stopped putting interviews on disc 2 - I can't be arsed with that three companions thing - so I always have to change CD before I'm ready to. Woe is literally me.