Was King Dalios K'Anpo?

[Si Hunt]

King Dalios in "The Time Monster" and K'Anpo from "Planet of the Spiders" are both played by George Cormack. Normally they'd be no issue with two different characters being played by the same chap, especially in the Pertwee era when Michael Wisher turned up as someone else every other week.

But there's something curious about King Dalios. He seems wise beyond his years, but not only that, he knows the future! He seems aware of Atlantis' imminent destruction, beyond simply a myth. He also doesn't seem to belong in the time in which he's 'lodging' - could he be a Time Lord living under cover? Could he, in actual fact, be K'Anpo, the Doctor's Time Lord mentor from "Planet of the Spiders"? Let's look at the evidence -

(i) He's played by the same actor. There's (exactly, to the month) only two years between the broadcast dates of "The Time Monster" and "Planet of the Spiders" - which is quite tight, even by Doctor Who's standards (though not unprecedented; see "Arc of Infinity" and "Caves of Androzani"). So maybe they are the same character

(ii) The Doctor implicitly trusts K'Anpo, and vica versa. Doubters may question why the Doctor doesn't immediately recognise Dalios as K'Anpo if this is who he is... but he doesn't recognise him in "Planet of the Spiders" either, at first. In fact he says "Have we met before?". Is he, perhaps, thinking of Atlantis?

(iii) Dalios seems to know, beyond any doubt, that Atlantis will fall

(iv) Dalios is immune to the Master's hypnotism. This is very unusual - perhaps suggesting he is a Time Lord

(v) K'Anpo is first seen in "Planet of the Spiders". But which story first mentions him? Oh look, it's "The Time Monster"! Could it be that, although it's been too long since he saw his old mentor to recognise him, Dalios has reminded the Doctor of K'Anpo, hence why he chooses this adventure to regale Jo with the tale?

(vi) Finally, there's a scene in "The Time Monster" where Dalios tells Hippias that he has seen Kronos, to which Hippias says that this is impossible because it happened hundreds of years ago. Dalios looks troubled, but offers no explanation.

No-one ever mentions this scene, but if Dalios was in fact a Time Lord, then this would explain his long life.

So what do you think? Could they possibly be the same character?

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

Isn't Dalios killed at the end of The Time Monster? It's too long since I saw it, but I have a feeling he is - or is he just left in the dungeon and not mentioned again? If so, then it's actually a very plausible theory...

[shada pavlova]

No, either the Master or Queen Galleia explicitly does away with him (I forget which, but it definitely happens.)

However, apart from that, it's a very interesting theory. I would now like to add to it with one word.

GORONWY!

[SiHart]

No, either the Master or Queen Galleia explicitly does away with him (I forget which, but it definitely happens.)

As I remember, that happens off screen, so maybe, just maybe Queen Galleia lies about it to help him escape or something instead. We don't see the body, do we? So if he is the same person, then it is possible...

Si xx

[Pip Madeley]

It's a good story, Grandpa.

I think it's a pretty good theory but probably just coincidence. Perhaps it will come up on the Planet of the Spiders DVD?

[shada pavlova]

Maybe like one of those TARDIS index file easter eggs?

[Si Hunt]

Unfortunately, we do actually see him die but who knows? Perhaps he's suspended his bodily functions as Time Lords are want to do!

Although, for some reason, I've always imagined him regenerating shortly afterwards off screen. Yes, I know he looks the same in "Spiders", but I figured a Time Lord of K'Anpo's standing would be able to "shape" his appearance - perhaps he liked looking like actor George Cormack and made each regeneration keep the same face?

Either way, if he was a Time Lord, with all the tricks that entails, then seeing him appear to die on screen shouldn't really pose a problem with him coming back - the Master used to do that every week.

Si.

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

The title of this thread is so Shada Pavlova!!! ........erm, no offense Harry

[Si Hunt]

Ah, I was starting controversial threads like these when he was in diapers! Sorry, nappies!

Si.

[SiHart]

Unfortunately, we do actually see him die but who knows? Perhaps he's suspended his bodily functions as Time Lords are want to do!

Oh. Well it's not a story I revisit very often.

Although, for some reason, I've always imagined him regenerating shortly afterwards off screen. Yes, I know he looks the same in "Spiders", but I figured a Time Lord of K'Anpo's standing would be able to "shape" his appearance - perhaps he liked looking like actor George Cormack and made each regeneration keep the same face

Then why does he choose the Cho-Je body for the next regeneration then? I fear you're clutching at straws there to make your theory work and it's seeming very shaky to me if you going to have to apply that kind of logic- if so then Viner and Professor Clegg could be the same person!

Ah, I was starting controversial threads like these when he was in diapers! Sorry, nappies!

That's certainly true!

Si xx

[shada pavlova]

The title of this thread is so Shada Pavlova!!! ........erm, no offense Harry

None taken! I'm enjoying it immensely!

[Si Hunt]

I fear you're clutching at straws there to make your theory work

Ok the 'keeping the same face' theory is obviously redundant, but we don't really need it. We see him "appear" to die in "Time Monster" but there's nothing to say he actually does. It's hard to explain but every appearance of Dalios in this story screams to me that (i) he knows the Doctor and (ii) He's more than he seems. He's a fish out of water amongst the other Atlanteans - he's something else. And what with this story just so happening to have a long scene telling us about K'Anpo in it... I don't see him appearing to die being an obstacle. A mystic like K'Anpo would easily have a trick up his sleeve. Let's not forget that Dalios' death is what turns Galleia against the Master and ultimately stops him winning. It's a very convenient demise, isn't it?

Si.

[Logo Polish]

Maybe he does the suspending his outward life functions trick that the Doctor occasionally does when he needs to be in an airless environment for a bit, then when everyone thinks he's dead, he later awakes and hops off back to his TARDIS to make good his escape.

[Andrew Curnow]

Indeed - or maybe he just had a spare hand lying around in a jar, regenerated just enough to be up and about again, and then nipped off for a bit of peace & quiet in peaceful, quiet Mumerset...

[Logo Polish]

(v) K'Anpo is first seen in "Planet of the Spiders". But which story first mentions him? Oh look, it's "The Time Monster"! Could it be that, although it's been too long since he saw his old mentor to recognise him, Dalios has reminded the Doctor of K'Anpo, hence why he chooses this adventure to regale Jo with the tale?

It's also been mentioned that although the Doctor doesn't recognise the Portreeve as being the Master in Castrovalva, the stories he chooses to tell him about involve the Daleks and Ogrons, implying Frontier in Space, although admittedly it could also be Day of the Daleks. It's been suggested that this might indicate that his subconsciousness has already recognised the Master.

So perhaps this could be happening here too? He doesn't realise that Dalios is K'Anpo but has recognised him on the subconscious level, hence his discussing him with Jo...

[Terry Leptil]

An interesting theory. It's like people wondering if Chancellor Goth is one of the Time Lords at the Doctor's trial in The War Games.

Other people have been immune to the Master's hypnotism such as Miss Hawthorne and C.P.O. Smedley and they're probably not Time Lords. (If so, perhaps Smedley could also be Senior Prison Officer Green, who liked looking like Eric Mason and kept the face for every regeneration?)

[shada pavlova]

An interesting theory. It's like people wondering if Chancellor Goth is one of the Time Lords at the Doctor's trial in The War Games.

That seems much more likely, seeing as both characters are EXPLICITLY Time Lords, and high-up ones at that.

[Si Hunt]

Then again, we know from "Destiny" that a Time Lord can take anothers likeness if they choose (incidentally, more Ammo for Dalios regenerating and keeping the same face?). So perhaps Goth just had a huge gay crush on the Time Lord we saw in "The War Games", so when he died, he nicked his face.

Si.

[shada pavlova]

I smell a fanfic in the offing!

[Rob McCow]

Was Queen Thalira actually Groucho?

[Andrew Curnow]

Were the Gods of Ragnarok the Three Stooges?

[shada pavlova]

Was the Security Chief actually the Keeper of the Matrix, working undercover for the CIA?

[Si Hunt]

Trouble is, I've a horrible feeling you're serious.

Si.

[SiHart]

But what was he doing with The Greatr Intelligence in Tibet in "1980", hmm?

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

DID Sam Briggs go back in time to become Queen Victoria?