Remember, remember ...

[WhiteCrowNZ]

It's the 5th of November.

What are we supposed to be remembering on the 5th of November?

[Pip Madeley]

The 43rd anniversary of Pat Troughton's first episode?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Very funny! Is it?

My point on Guy Fawkes night, we always celebrate "that it's Guy Fawkes night", but what are we actually celebrating? That terrorists deserve to be horribly executed, and this is what we should do to all would-be terrorists?

[Carol Baynes]

It's more of an excuse to burn a big fire, I think.

In yet another pagan connection, the festivals of Samhain (Halloween), Beltane and Lammas were the product of herding cultures who were greatly concerned with the position of the sun at the equinoxes and solstices. They were fire festivals, and perhaps at certain times in the far past human sacrifice might even have featured. It was connected with one aspect of nature dying and another rising (a bit like a pheonix). It is said later patriarchal societies practiced sacrifice, and earlier matrifical ones did not. We can't be sure. Of course, large life warming fires as the winter begins to take hold, is a strong impulse. A celebration of life as it goes 'underground'.

In Guy Fawkes night there is a definite echo of much older traditions going on there, and perhaps a clue to why the tradition is upheld. An important historical event gives us a more recent story to hang on a much older practice.

[Captain Tancredi]

My point on Guy Fawkes night, we always celebrate "that it's Guy Fawkes night", but what are we actually celebrating? That terrorists deserve to be horribly executed, and this is what we should do to all would-be terrorists?

Well, you have to admit that hanging, drawing and quartering does have one of the lowest re-offending rates ever.

This is an interesting town to live in come November 5th, because a branch of the Fawkes family lives nearby and over the years has given a lot of woodland to the people of Otley for recreational purposes. So we don't have a big bonfire- it'd be just a smidge ungrateful. Being mindful of the date and the fact that I'm a Stewart by marriage on my dad's side, today I spent some time listening to music from the court of James VI and I- some of it breathtaking. Not your typical king, but then not a typical court which could call on the services of Shakespeare for its entertainment, and after Elizabeth's reign, the Jacobean era saw the Renaissance truly taking hold in England.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Well, you have to admit that hanging, drawing and quartering does have one of the lowest re-offending rates ever.

OMG - it's Michael Howard!!!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Interesting reply Carol.

I think part of the reason I've asked this is well originally people were ordered to celebrate this. To give thanks to God for the deliverance of the King from harm, thus reinforcing King James assertion of his Divine Right. Ironically 300 years later when Hitler survived his own bombing, he believed much the same.

But society has moved on now, and we don't really believe in such Divine Rights, and aren't made to celebrate it. It certainly has waned a lot in recent time, with Halloween becoming much more commercial and taking over a bit.

[Paul Monk]

Tabby explained to me what Bonfire night was all about last night.
"A long time ago a naughty man wanted to hurt some other men but the policemen caught him and told him off, so he didn't do it again."

She is 4 years old.

[Captain Tancredi]

It certainly has waned a lot in recent time, with Halloween becoming much more commercial and taking over a bit.

Halloween also has the advantage of being something you can celebrate indoors. By definition, Bonfire Night involves being outdoors after dark in November, hence cold and damp.

[Larry]

. Being mindful of the date and the fact that I'm a Stewart by marriage on my dad's side, .

well I never knew that I'm also a Stewart, by birth on my dad's family .

Interesting reply Carol.

I think part of the reason I've asked this is well originally people were ordered to celebrate this. To give thanks to God for the deliverance of the King from harm, thus reinforcing King James assertion of his Divine Right. Ironically 300 years later when Hitler survived his own bombing, he believed much the same.

.

I think it runs a bit deeper then that by the time of James, England was pretty much a Protestant country Catholics were treated with contempt and were mistrusted. The failure of the gun powder plot would of been viewed by Protestants as gods will that England should remain protestant and not revert to the catholic faith.

[Stuart Wallis]

Indeed, there was still enough mistrust of Catholics - I think I may have mentioned this before - that Catholics weren't allowed to take a seat in Parliament until 1829; and Catholics are still barred from ascending the throne. This is the reason why the Stewart line ended and the Hanoverians became the monarchs; Queen Anne's third cousin George I being the nearest surviving non-Catholic relative. (And if his mum had lived another seven weeks, we'd have briefly had a Queen Sophia before him!)

[Pip Madeley]

I think fireworks should banned from sale to the general public. Why?

Mother dies trying to save bullied son from blaze after firework is pushed through letterbox

Tragic.

[Alex]

I absolutely agree - and things like that tragically happen all too often with kids using fireworks as weapons.

Then again, I think public displays are a waste of money too, if a local council decides to have one it should be paid for out of money from those who attend.

[Pip Madeley]

I think public displays are a waste of money too, if a local council decides to have one it should be paid for out of money from those who attend.

Agreed, and then there's environmental implications to consider.

[Andrew Curnow]

I agree that's tragic, but I don't think a wholesale ban is particularly the answer - it would be like wanting to ban football to cure the problem of football hooliganism. And, I may be wrong, but aren't shops only supposed to seel fireworks to over 18s? I'm 99% certain all the shops round here that sell them (and there's at least three in Holsworthy that do, which is a big proportion in a small town) have an 'Proof of Age' sign up beside them. So these school kids should have never had them in the first place.

I've never lit any fireworks myself, but right or wrong I do like to see them, there's something very basically exciting about something that whizzes up into the sky, goes bang, and lets off lots of pretty lights, and I'd be disappointed to see them cancelled.

[Larry]

I think fireworks should banned from sale to the general public. Why?

Mother dies trying to save bullied son from blaze after firework is pushed through letterbox

Tragic.

it makes be sick that we've got brave young men dying in Afgahnistan while scum like this are allowed to walk the streets..

[Larry]

well since my cat had is accident we now once they have both had their tea don't let them out once it starts to get dark but even during the day when they are out this time of year you do worry some shi**y kid will throw a firework at them.

[Pip Madeley]

I agree that's tragic, but I don't think a wholesale ban is particularly the answer - it would be like wanting to ban football to cure the problem of football hooliganism. And, I may be wrong, but aren't shops only supposed to seel fireworks to over 18s? I'm 99% certain all the shops round here that sell them (and there's at least three in Holsworthy that do, which is a big proportion in a small town) have an 'Proof of Age' sign up beside them. So these school kids should have never had them in the first place.

I've never lit any fireworks myself, but right or wrong I do like to see them, there's something very basically exciting about something that whizzes up into the sky, goes bang, and lets off lots of pretty lights, and I'd be disappointed to see them cancelled.

What's wrong with going to a public, licensed display then? That way you get to see something that whizzes up into the sky, goes bang and lets off lots of pretty lights and it reduces the chances that under 18s/idiots can let off something that whizzes into someone's letterbox, goes bang and lets off lots of pretty flames... plus one big firework display is better than a thousand of them polluting the air...

[MinaHarker]

What's wrong with going to a public, licensed display then? That way you get to see something that whizzes up into the sky, goes bang and lets off lots of pretty lights and it reduces the chances that under 18s/idiots can let off something that whizzes into someone's letterbox, goes bang and lets off lots of pretty flames... plus one big firework display is better than a thousand of them polluting the air...

I have to agree.

The loud noises cause me and my animals a lot of upset, and it's constant from the middle of October to the middle of November.

I think allowing any idiot to buy explosives who wants to is a recipe for disaster.

[Alex]

The loud noises cause me and my animals a lot of upset, and it's constant from the middle of October to the middle of November.

There's also that to consider, my poor old dog used to be terrified of fireworks, and we had to get him sedatives on the night itself - and we were nowhere near a public display.

I'm 99% certain all the shops round here that sell them (and there's at least three in Holsworthy that do, which is a big proportion in a small town) have an 'Proof of Age' sign up beside them. So these school kids should have never had them in the first place.

True, but all it takes is one dodgy shop / a twat of an older brother and they can get hold of them all too easily.

[Stephen Morgan]

As much as I still get some enjoyment out of seeing a display, or having some of our own, we've not bothered with fireworks now for a few years. We've only got a small patio area which was ok when Amy was small and we'd have a few fireworks and sparklers, but in recent years fireworks have got so big and dangerous I don't think they're safe for family displays. Has anyone here tried lighting those big plastic cones on a firework with the firelighter supplied with them? You need to hold a constant flame to them before they ignite, and when they do bits of molten plastic come away, which can cause as much of a burn as a flame can.
We're nowhere near any organised display, (our local Welfare has one tomorrow night) but the dogs have been distressed enough this week as it is without having fireworks of our own. And come tomorrow night, or even this evening, if it stops raining, the dogs will be going berserk as neighbours and local hooligans set off their own.

[Pip Madeley]

Glad to see I'm not alone in my view!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I've never lit any fireworks myself, but right or wrong I do like to see them, there's something very basically exciting about something that whizzes up into the sky, goes bang, and lets off lots of pretty lights, and I'd be disappointed to see them cancelled.

Me too. We kind of missed the displays this year, and I ended up buying some over here to do. Interestingly there are limits to what you could buy in NZ over the counter. The more powerful rockets you just can't buy, which I think is a good thing. None of ours were really loud, but fun.

However in the wrong hands would still be dangerous.

[Jason Thompson]

A bit late, but:

November 5th and the dates around it seem to be a time when we are all expected to accept without any kind of notification that our neighbours can make as much noise as they like, and that any old idiot can go into the shops and buy explosives at discount prices. It also seems that nowadays the bigger, brighter and louder the fireworks the better. I remember fireworks night at my house when I was young. Firstly we told all our neighbours about it a few nights in advance. We had roman candles, catherine wheels, little things that occasionally shot off a little bright flare into the sky, and so on. The little rocket or two that went 'weeeeeeee-BANG' was the finale of the evening. Now it seems any oold fool can go into a shop and buy the super noisy de-luxe rocket set, guaranteed to terrify pets and annoy all your neighbours by making more bangs and flashes than a night in the trenches in 1917.

The kinds of fireworks I have heard and seen going off in gardens up and down my road the past couple of weeks are the kind of things I had only ever previously seen at public displays. The kind of display held in a school playing field where everyone was about forty feet from the nearest firework, not in a ten foot garden.

It just amazes me that these things are so dangerous and yet big posters proclaim that shops are selling them at discount prices!

And yes, they are supposed to be restricted to customers over the age of 18, but while the law may see them as adults there is still a lot of immaturity in many of them.

Why can't these horrendously dangerous things be restricted to big public displays? Why should I have to put up with their noise and debris from the next garden? At the very least why shouldn't people have to have a license to buy the damn things?

[Pip Madeley]

I was shocked (but not totally surprised) the other day to look through the window and see two black youths running down my road, one chasing the other with a lit firework that was shooting out flares! ******* idiots.