In Defence Of The Time Team

[Jason Thompson]

There seems to be a growing trend to knock the Time Team in DWM, mainly on the basis that apparently they don't seem to like anything. In the latest DWM that should ahrdly ocme as a surprise: the two stories under review were Time-Flight and Arc Of infinity, neither of which are classics, or even terribly good. However, in the previous issues, I don't see that excessive negativity that some seem to find there. I've just re-read all the Time Team entries covering the JN-T era. Here's what I found:

Only one of the team actually enjoyed The Leisure Hive, while the others hated it. Meglos received similarly negative reviews, with the Team hardly interested enough to even watch it. However, even within those reviews there were various elements that were singled out for praise. Full Circle perked the Team up considerably, as they all seemed to absolutely love it. There is hardly any criticism of that story apart from the toy spiders. State Of Decay was enjoyed as a very traditional story in a so-far un-traditional season, although Adric's arrival as a companion was not greeted warmly.

The weirdness of Warriors' Gate has them all so gripped they reportedly only just had enough comment to fill the article. Only Jac had some concerns about the suitability for younger viewers of such a strange story.

The Keeper of Traken is generally liked but the writing is criticised, in particular the emphasis on building technobabble machines while major events like the Keeper naming Tremas as his successor and the Melkur offering Kassia a chance to save Tremas happen off screen and we hear about them later. Logopolis is heavily criticised (mainly for the plot, which is, until they actually get to Logopolis, rather nonsensical anyway), but even after all that the summing up indicates that it was largely enjoyed. The review of the first year of JN-T's reign is mixed, with many unsettled by the direction the show is taking but seeing some potential there. The Fourth Doctor himself has praise heaped upon him in bucketloads, even in such a short article as this.

The new TARDIS crew is not impressing the team much when they get to Castrovalva, but they all like the story and the new Doctor. The only truly harsh criticism on offer here is the move to obviously designed costumes for the regulars rather than outfits. Four To Doomsday gets mixed reviews, but Kinda is loved by all, it seems, with even the snake at the end not really bothering them. With The Visitation we're back on mixed review territory briefly before we get onto the well-received Black Orchid and Earthshock.

So where is all this negativity that I've seen people complain about? Quite often in that series of articles you find the four have different opinions, but are they expected to edit out all the criticism and just keep the praise? Must they keep silent about obviously cheap sets or poor dialogue? Are we worried that viewers who come to the magazine from the new series might see the original series being criticised and decide it's not for them?

What, in short, do people have against this regular feature of DWM?

[Jonno]

I get the feeling that a lot of fans are over-reacting to any slightly negative points raised by the Time Team because that article is one of the very few now to focus on the original series, and given that the new series tends to be praised to the hilt generally speaking, that said fans view it as looking down on the old series.

This is not my viewpoint BTW.

[Andrew Curnow]

I have to hold my hand up and say that I have been moaning a lot about the Time Team recently - and I'll hold the other hand up and admit that some of that is perhaps a kneejerk reaction to any criticism of what I always think of as 'my' era. Although I took a while to warm to season 18 after season 17, the early JN-T era (up to season 21, say) was my juvenile fanboy period, so I have a great affection for those times, even if not for all those stories.

It just seemed to me that they were/are somehow towing the party line, in a way which you actually wouldn't necessarily if you approached these stories 'as new' (which I seem to recall was the attempt of the Time Team in the first place). Even with my huge love of season 17, I would say that visually it has dated a great deal more than most of season 18 - certainly The Leisure Hive, or Full Circle. Yet, and admittedly I may have missed it, I don't recall any praise at all for TLH when it came up. Similarly, in the latest issue, although I'm not surprised to see "Timeflight" dumped on, I'm rather startled that all 4 of them disliked "Arc of Infinity" - some people hate it, yes, but a lot of others don't, and I don't think even 'fandom' has reached any largely-agreed consensus on it. Clay, for example, moaning about the music is absurd, since it's 20+ years old - it would be on a par with laughing at "The Ark in Space" for its use of bubble-wrap, because what was brand-new then has now become so very commonplace that you can spot it a mile away.

It just seems, and again it might just be overt-sensitivity by me as an 80s fanboy, that they are now tending much more to giving the opinions they have on the stories, formed over two decades, rather than even trying to approach it as if they were watching it in a contemporary setting for the first time.

[Captain Tancredi]

The original intention of the Time Team when it started was that the group wouldn't watch any out-of-era Who in between their collective viewings, so they'd be seeing broadcast Who as one continuous progression. Unfortunately a new series then came along and ruined everything, particularly with Clay and Jac being professionally involved with DWM and the tie-in books- Jason, as a scientist I'm sure you'll recognise when an experiment becomes irretrievably compromised by external factors. So what started as an interesting attempt at compressing the experience of watching Who over 26 years down into 4 or 5 has become something different, as it's bound to be when at least half your team are constantly exposed to the current series machine in a professional capacity.

[Jonno]

I do agree with your point about them getting away from their original objective of placing them in a contemporary viewpoint as if seeing for the first time. Perhaps they're bored with it now - it's been going on for almost 8 years!

Perhaps it's time to see another letter from Mr C published in DWM with the above points raised?

[Andrew Curnow]

Or more views from "Si Hart of Bracknell" perhaps!

[Larry]

I Perhaps they're bored with it now - it's been going on for almost 8 years!

?

and at a rough guess with another 37 stories to review it's going to go on for another 3 years at least -


but for me the Time Team, section is one of the things I enjoy reading and I certainly don't have a problem with them after all they are only stating their personal opinions which after all is no different to any of us on these forums.

[Milky Tears]

But I have to rip out the pages whenever a letter from Mr C or Si Hart appears. They're destroying the magazine for me.

[SiHart]

Quiet you!

I think, like Andrew, I get very defensive about this period of the show because my two favourite seasons, 17 and 18 tend to get picked on quite a lot for different reasons. Sometimes I just get fed up that people tend to focus on the negatives of this era rather than all the positive stuff that's going on and so when people get negative about it, I get cross!

As you say, it hasn't actually been all bad, and certainly Time-Flight and Arc of Infinity deserved all they got!

Si xx

[Pip Madeley]

I thought the Time Team was all made up anyway?

[SiHart]

Kind of. They don't actually watch together, but they do write their own comments, which are carefully stittched together, I'm led to believe.

Si xx

[Larry]

Quiet you!

I think, like Andrew, I get very defensive about this period of the show because my two favourite seasons, 17 and 18 tend to get picked on quite a lot for different reasons. Sometimes I just get fed up that people tend to focus on the negatives of this era rather than all the positive stuff that's going on and so when people get negative about it, I get cross!

Si xx

oh come on Si we all know there is nothing positive to say about season 17...

only joking mate, yes season 17 is certainly not one of my favourites but City of Death and Nightmare on Eden are two very enjoyable stories..

[Raston]

Time team would have been a lot more accurate if the people had not been 'super-fans' but had just been people who had not had as much exposure to the show and could have given a fresh perspective on stories. Lets face it the same old fanboy cliches get trotted out month after month in team team-its the main reason its probably the section i read last in DWM.

DWM is a bit shite these days, i've started getting it less regularly since 2005 when the review about the then latest BF story spent most of the time slagging it for not being the TV series instead of offering any constructive or even fair criticism. DWM is little more than Doctor Who Adventures without the free gift these days.

I'd be more likely to pay more attention to it if we got fewer repetative interviews from the new series actors/crew and a bit more concentration on the rest of the Who franchies. How about a nice big BF atricle with some new interviews perhaps with the audio only companions or somethings?

If Time team is the bulk of the 'classic' series coverage its a sad day, because time team is so dreadfully dull and offers nothing new.

[Larry]

Time team would have been a lot more accurate if the people had not been 'super-fans' but had just been people who had not had as much exposure to the show and could have given a fresh perspective on stories.

can't really see why it should make any difference because the Time Team are all heavely involved with Doctor Who in some way they are still fans and their opinions are just as valid as yours or mine.

I'd be more likely to pay more attention to it if we got fewer repetative interviews from the new series actors/crew and a bit more concentration on the rest of the Who franchies. How about a nice big BF atricle with some new interviews perhaps with the audio only companions or somethings?

.

sadly this won't ever happen DWN has stated on numerous occasions that rightly or wrongly the number 1 priority has to be the new series and they simply don't have the space to cocentrate on anything else.

[Paul Clement]

Time team would have been a lot more accurate if the people had not been 'super-fans' but had just been people who had not had as much exposure to the show and could have given a fresh perspective on stories

I don't think it would have made it more accurate, but I would have found it more interesting if the Time Team hadn't included three of the team.

[Andrew Curnow]

To be fair, though, they probably weren't (such) prominent names when the Time Team started.

[Milky Tears]

I don't think it would have made it more accurate, but I would have found it more interesting if the Time Team hadn't included three of the team.

I think they should replace "three of the team" with Jason, Raston and transvamp...



then I can give up the mag for good.

[Anthony Williams]

it would help if the viewings actually happened, and weren't made up by Gary Gillat/Michael Pritchard

Ant x

[Raston]

sadly this won't ever happen DWN has stated on numerous occasions that rightly or wrongly the number 1 priority has to be the new series and they simply don't have the space to cocentrate on anything else.

I understand that they have to concentrate on the TV series, i just don't see why the only coverage the first 26 seasons gets is bloody time team, which is pointless and offers us nothing new no information just a series of made up discussions which some people never had about 8 episodes every month.

[Andrew Curnow]

It's not quite the only coverage - the Fact of Fiction, although admittedly not every issue, is old series stuff. Mind you, I do think that any new fan will be totally bewildered by the Time Team, as there's no quarter given to explaining the basics of each story, when it was on, who's in it, etc.

I don't think it really matters too much whether the Time Team actually physically get together, does it - their opinions are the point of the article, the rest is artistic licence in the presentation (IMHO).

[Anthony Williams]

I don't think it really matters too much whether the Time Team actually physically get together, does it - their opinions are the point of the article, the rest is artistic licence in the presentation (IMHO).

shame it's not actually the opinions of the people in it, either

Ant x

[Pip Madeley]

Clayton Hickman looks like a potato head. FFS Bignell is a geek! The couch they sit on is too wide!

These are things Milky would say if he was online now.

[Andrew Curnow]

shame it's not actually the opinions of the people in it, either

Eh?

[Anthony Williams]

Eh?

the whole thing is a fabrication! they're not the actual opinions of Clay/Jaq/the other two! it's all entirely made up!

Ant x

[Andrew Curnow]

What, really?! Am I just being incredibly naive?* Whose opinions are they then?



*Almost certainly I suspect.