Rate & Discuss 4.17: The End Of Time, Part One

[Pip Madeley]

Doctor Who: The End Of Time, Part One
Friday 25th December 2009
BBC1 / BBC HD from 6.00pm-7.00pm



It's Christmas Eve and the Doctor's nemesis, The Master, is reborn. Reunited with Wilf, the Time Lord faces his old enemy as the battle rages from London's wastelands to the mysterious Immortality Gate, whilst the alien Ood also warn of an even greater danger approaching, as a shadow falls across the universe...

Followed by Doctor Who Confidential on BBC3 at 7pm.

Repeated Sunday 27th December 2009 at 7pm on BBC3 and Friday 1st January 2010 at 12.55pm on BBC1.

This thread and the accompanying poll will be opened at 7.00pm on Christmas Day.

[Lord President]

RTD just couldn't resist it, could he?

[shada pavlova]

THIS. WAS. BRILLIANT!!

You know, if you think about it, the Time Lords are the only people who REALLY have the resources & manpower to actually bring an end to Time itself.

Perhaps they're trying to get revenge for the Time War on the rest of the universe?

And will Donna die of her suppressed memories?

I still haven't stopped grinning and hyperventilating!

[egdcltd]

I have been wondering ever since the new series started if something like that would eventually happen.

[Si Hunt]

I thought the second half was fairly brilliant and enjoyable. Until then it felt uninspired and groping around for the plot.

Overall, looking forward to the climax but RTD's stock of ideas now feels like it has run dry so glad this is his farewell.

Si. :mobile

[Lord President]

I agree that this episode started slowly and built up momentum. I hope Part 2 keeps the pace going. I loved the Doctor/Wilf scenes! Arise Sir Bernard Cribbins! ;-)

[Larry]

well I'd have to rate that as the best christmas special so far even The Master, flying through the air didn't spoil things and those final moments The return of the Time Lords has to be the best cliff hanger of the entire new series.

9/10

[Paul Clement]

That was an episode with some great individual moments, but with a great deal within it that either felt like a floundering plot, or just left me feeling a little flat. John Simm was convincing as a Master who had completely stepped into the realms of madness, although his resurrection was poorly conceived and made little sense. There was some great moments from David Tennant too, with a wide range of emotions on display throughout the episode. It just felt very disjointed. The plan of Joshua Naismith, to give his daughter immortality, lacked any credibility due to its lack of believability. Probably the best part of the episode was the reveal of the Time Lords at the end.

[Larry]

ooh and I for got to say June Whitfield rocks...

[Andrew Curnow]

It's so difficult to judge a story, and especially a landmark one like this, on just the first 50% (less than that in fact - isn't part 2 75 minutes long?). So I'm kinda going to reserve a real judgement on this until I've seen the conclusion - part 1 felt like it was trying to wrong-foot the audience by twisting and turning, particularly over the nature of the Master's return and the plot, but it came across as a bit too chaotic and muddied to me. It got better as it went along, the cliffhanger left me intrigued but not that excited (oddly enough), Donna didn't get enough screen time, and the cafe scene between Wilf & the Doctor was despite all the oddness around it one of the best moments of the tenth Doctor era.

So... TO BE CONTINUED!!!

[Si Hunt]

I did like the very overdue musings on regeneration from the Doctors view: "It feels like death.. some new guy saunters off, but it still feels like dying."

Si. :mobile

[shada pavlova]

Conspiracy theories time!

#1: All these Time Lords are from a parallel Gallifrey, in a universe where the Time War never happened (possible because the 4th Doc did touch those two wires together), and want to avenge "our" universe's Gallifrey.

#2: The woman in the TV set and the church is Romana (or Parallel-Romana. Or the Rani. Or Iris Wildthyme, at a pinch).

#3: Tim Dalton is Borusa. No wait, better idea. Tim Dalton is Parallel-Master. (I mean, he does kind of look like Eric Roberts, if you squint).

Thoughts, anyone?

[cyberchris35]

I loved this episode it had a different feel to it, David was on top for and Bernard Cribbins was absolutly fantastic.John Simm was a brilliant unhinged Master, the story was ok I'm always ready for part one to be slow in hope that part two will pull out all the stops. The ending was just jaw dropping, roll on January 1st.

[Logo Polish]

Conspiracy theories time!

#1: All these Time Lords are from a parallel Gallifrey, in a universe where the Time War never happened (possible because the 4th Doc did touch those two wires together), and want to avenge "our" universe's Gallifrey.

Maybe, couldn't say.

#2: The woman in the TV set and the church is Romana (or Parallel-Romana. Or the Rani. Or Iris Wildthyme, at a pinch).

Rumour has it that she is the Doctor's mother. I've no idea if that's true or not, although the Master mentioning his father did make me wonder.

#3: Tim Dalton is Borusa. No wait, better idea. Tim Dalton is Parallel-Master. (I mean, he does kind of look like Eric Roberts, if you squint).

Thoughts, anyone?

Maybe. But then again, perhaps he isn't anyone we've met before. Or maybe he's the Valeyard?

[Larry]

Conspiracy theories time!

#1: All these Time Lords are from a parallel Gallifrey, in a universe where the Time War never happened (possible because the 4th Doc did touch those two wires together), and want to avenge "our" universe's Gallifrey.
?

well my theory is the time lords never died in the first place I don't think that this is a parallel Gallifrey but I have a feeling the Void might just have something to do with the reason why they dissapeared.

[Andrew Curnow]

Maybe the Timelords are lodged inside the Master's head (a la inside the Doctor's head in The Gallifrey Chronicles) and to defeat the Master next week he'll end up having to kill the Timelords as well?

[Andrew Curnow]

BTW, there's a clip from part 2 (the first scene after the titles by the look of it) up on the BBC site - clearly it's set near the end of the Time War, so maybe Paul McGann will be putting in an appearance!!

[Andrew Curnow]

We all found the 'shaking head' bit near the end a bit funny - I'm not sure whether it was meant to be or not - and similarly the shots of John Simms in the various women's clothes!!!

And... when the three guards with Simms head were in shot, was anybody else reminded of Tom in Leisure Hive part 4?

[shada pavlova]

Well, I had concluded that empirically, but it's always nice to have some theoretical backing, Andrew.

BTW, there's a clip from part 2 (the first scene after the titles by the look of it) up on the BBC site - clearly it's set near the end of the Time War, so maybe Paul McGann will be putting in an appearance!!

Hmm...more likely we'll just see the back of his head, and some extra wearing the costume and the wig, if anything.

[JohnMan]

Big question here...

Does anyone think Davies is going to have Doc10 be the Doc who ended the Time War????? Everyone always wonders if it was Doc8 or Doc9.... Maybe Tennant jumps his time stream, and ends the war...

Which costs him his life/regeneration... But, no one said it HAD to be McGann's!

Possible????

I dont ever remember any Doctor so fearful of the "end." Normally, the Doctor doesn't know his "end" is coming... maybe there is a bad feeling of something, but, has he ever knew a regeneration was literally near? Why does Doc10 know?

I maybe a million miles off... but if I had to guess what Doc10's final episode is about... is him going and ending the war, destroying his people, and then Doc 9 knowing this... and so on.

I dunno...

[Jon Masters]

I have to admit to being rather confused. Having missed he first 10 seconds I hadn't realised that the BBC had dramatised Hogwarts TNG - The Second coming of Albino Voldemort. Still, I did like the new urban wasteland setting they'd used. I did wonder though by the end if the DW team had realised that Voldemort's plan had been lifted from Shada. Thank goodness they'd covered it up by merging it with the Senate from the Old Republic ready for part 2, though I wasn't sure the Reindeer antlers suited ObiWilf Kenobi, and Yoda seemed to have started wearing a twin set.

What a shame they'd had to run this instead of the promised DW special.

Perhaps my train of thought was interupted by having to calm two very bored and confused children. Still, the long dull bits were ideal for getting their tea ready. And now I won't feel the despearte need over the next 7 days to find out waht happens next but can simply set the video and enjoy the rest of the holiday.

3/10 - although maybe its all a subtle ploy to make Moffatt and Smith look really, really good....

[Andrew Curnow]

What slightly confused me, or at least made me frown disapprovingly, was first of all the bluff & double-bluff of the Master's initial resurrection, then the fact that that other mob were keen to catch his revived self. Except for the end, where the Master took advantage of what he had, it wasn't the Master's plan at all, just a lot of 'lucky' coincidences - although maybe that's the point, what with 'mystery woman' talking about "no such thing as coincidences".

The other thing that isn't yet 'working' for me is that the Doctor has taken one casual comment at the end of PotDead and suddenly now is walking around like a doomed man - I know we all know he is, but within the fiction why is the Doctor so sure? And the Master's superpowers have come from... ?

Still, it's got us all talking so I suppose that's good!

[Alex]

I really enjoyed it - like a few others have mentioned, the first half was a little slow at times (the Doctor's first confrontation with the Master seemed a bit tacked on) but it was filled with lots of little gems, including the superb scene between the Doctor and Wilf in the cafe.

But the second half was demented genius. Lots of fun with the Master playing games with Joshua, and of course that ending. Which is insane. But in a beautiful, crazy, audacious way that had me squealing with delight. And then to top it all, we see the return of the Timelords, which was just stunning stuff.

I shall be avoiding all spoilers now, as I can't wait to see how it all turns out. And just how the new Doctor arrives on the scene...

7.5/10 (though the second half deserves a 9/10 really)

[Mike Saville]

Didn't rate whole chunks of it if I'm honest. I'm not a fan of RTD's storytelling, and there were elements of what I don't like here. I shall focus on what I did like though; The interaction between Doc and Wilf was excellent, and their great bond develops every time they meet. Not seen any spoilers, but it would be nice to see Wilf in future episodes. Key point though, Timothy Dalton stole the show in all of 30 seconds. Even if the preceeding hour hadn't hooked me, that brief glance made next week's episode unmissable.

[Larry]

ok we only saw them for a few moments but for me the battle cry "FOR GALLIFREY" and seeing the massed ranks of Time Lords was the first time since The War Games, where you do get the feeling that the Time Lords really are an all powerfull race.

RTD, has really set this up for a fantastic finally and I truely hope he comes up with a plausible reason as to why the Time Lords are back as to often in the past his part 2's your left feeling a bit "cheated" with his plot endings.