Rate And Discuss 4.18: The End Of Time, Part Two

[Martin Penny]

I just wish we'd seen exactly what happened to The Master at the end, and discovered who the mysterious woman was. If we find out at a later date that'll be fair enough, but if it's never revealed I'll be a bit miffed.

The woman thing annoyed me, but I was glad they left the Master's fate ambiguous - he might be dead, he might not - so we have a chance of seeing Simm again.

Also, did I imagine it, or did RTD have a cameo as one of the people in the streets when Gallifrey was returning?

[Si Hunt]

I think the best word for that was "satisfying". I just loved watching that. I was in my element. I enjoyed it hugely.

I was quite pleased that all the cynical fan suggestions (myself included) never appeared - Wilf didn't die, the famous 'reset button' wasn't pressed, Wilf didn't kill the Doctor, Donna didn't die either.... it was a great resolution. The Time Lords reminded me of their "War Games" selves, massively powerful and able to destroy and defeat almost at will. Dalton was worth what they paid, though I did wonder if they had to do all his bits seperately. Why was he always in front of that big white screen? What was it?

It's odd that we never found out who that woman was, but I guess they wanted SOMETHING to carry forward and maybe come back to one day beyond the Tennant era. I actually enjoyed the Time Lords so much I was dissapointed when they were sent back, presumably to be destroyed in the Time War after all... but the series wouldn't be as good next year with them hovering in the background.

The last 10 minutes was a bit of self-indulgence for this production team, and only the hardest heart wouldn't give it to them. I think they've earned it. Even that 10 minutes of air time was "bonus". It didn't really hurt did it? Even if it was a bit odd that the Doctor takes time out from dying to set Jack up with Midshipmanframe from "Voyage of the Damned" (!), we get a bizarre coupling of Martha and Mickey (anyone else spot that she was credited as Martha Smith-Jones?) and the Doctor runs about a bit saving young boys from speeding cars. Who cares? Like I say, I think they earned it. And taking a few weeks to die from raditation poisoning is exactly how Pertwee went!

As for the regeneration, I said all along I hoped they went traditional - big change, few oddball words and some banter about new hair. But, we remarked earlier, we were sure they would do something left-field - all my theories about Donna turning into the Doctor or the Doctor getting shot were rubbish! - and they didn't! They did the unexpected by doing the expected! Amazing. You can't second guess a master kidder! The ending was heart stoppingly perfect, I was only sorry we didn't get either a clips or even a miserly episode title of what's coming next! But they set it up perfectly for the new team. And Mat Smith was deliciously "new" in the same way Tennant was four years ago.

Hurrah!

Si.

[Si Hunt]

and the trailer afterwards has made me very excited about the forthcoming season.

You got a trailer?! We got nothing on BBC HD!!

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

or did RTD have a cameo as one of the people in the streets when Gallifrey was returning?

Ooh, I didn't notice that, but I did think I spotted him in the background at Donna's wedding. I wonder...

[duncan]

There was no trailer on BBC1 or did we turn over too quickly?

[SiHart]

A TRAILER?

WE DIDN'T GET A TRAILER ON BBCHD.

Si xx

[Larry]

don't know about any one else but at the start I was shouting out the telly "You Cant Tie Bernard Cribbens to a chair"

[SiHart]

Oh,but I did enjoy the episode... and will post shortly about that.

Sorry for the capitals there.



Si xx

[WibblyWombly]

Does anyone think Jack & Alonzo are gonna return in TW series 4 and Alonzo's gonna replace Ianto?? That would be cool. Torchwood could be rebuilt with Jack, Alonzo, Martha, Mickey and Gwen. XD

[WibblyWombly]

A TRAILER?

WE DIDN'T GET A TRAILER ON BBCHD.

Si xx

Look on the Dr Who official website. It looks good

[Larry]

I - Wilf didn't kill the Doctor,
Si.

in some ways he did kill the Doctor, in that it was his fault why the Doctor had to sacrifice himself to save wilf.

[Andrew Curnow]

No, the trailer is up on the BBC DW website - although I've just seen it air after DW Confidential on Three.

But, we remarked earlier, we were sure they would do something left-field - all my theories about Donna turning into the Doctor or the Doctor getting shot were rubbish! - and they didn't! They did the unexpected by doing the expected!

Agreed. Somewhere I read a comment from RTD, sort of suggesting maybe he doesn't regenerate at all, and I've been a bit miffy all day thinking that if they pull some trick (like he actually really dies but the Timelords resurrect him, like they did with the Master; or he gets rejuvenated back into a young 1st Doctor; or whatever) then that would be just... wrong. We've of course been double-bluffed again, and it was all the more fun for it.

Not sure we really needed that Ood back again did we, but never mind. Did I mention that Martha was looking particularly hot tonight (yes, I realise she's a married woman, but then so am I).

[SiHart]

The trailer is on the BBC website and looks really cool, BTW.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

You're a married woman Andrew?

Just seen the trailer, very exciting. Nice to see they're doing a 'country village' one. And "Geronimo!" is obviously going to be the Annoying Catchphrase for 2010. But - oh dear - more tedious Doctor snogging the companion antics. *sigh*. It's just boring now.

On the plus side, love that Carnival Clown head thing! And Amy looks great! And Mat Smith SOUNDS great!

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

And Matt Smith SOUNDS great!

He does doesn't he - that opening moment ("What have you got for me this time?") is somehow exactly that old/young thing that this time last year (well almost) Moffat was praising up. And, gotta admit I think he's right. I also liked the action with the shades, and the Dalek, and... Trip of a lifetime time again I'd say!

You're a married woman Andrew?

You know what I mean...

[Si Hunt]

Is that a White Dalek I see?

Si.

[Llordllama]

Much as enjoyed the opening and closing third, it kinda sagged in the middle for me - the Doctor stunned into inaction, sorry just saw that in Waters the other day, and it worked better there.

On the other hand the whole dying to save one man and sign off to 5 years of stories - nice. Poor old TARDIS though...

[SiHart]

OK, now I've got a cup of tea and calmed down a bit, what did I think?

Well, for a start, I enjoyed that much more than the Christmas day episode. It was better paced and far less grim, far more exciting than part 1 was. The Gallifrey stuff was nicely epic, as it should be, and Timothy Dalton was just excellent (can I just mention he's my favourite James Bond too here) as Rassilon (we yelped when the Doctor shouted his name and said even Shada Pavolva didn't see that coming!).

Bernard Cribbins was so good. That almost goes without saying, but there were so many great moments with him, both funny and emotional, that I'm glad he was here for the last story. He excelled here in the scenes in the radiation room, and the lovely quiet scene where he looks down on the Earth while the Doctor repaired the ship.

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I didn't like the Doctor's moment of selfishness because his time was up. I know that was probably in character for the tenth Doctor, but it felt wrong to me. Especially when compared to all the other Doctors' last moments. I can see what RTD was getting at, but it didn't appeal to me.
Otherwise, David was spot on and while his last line isn't as iconically lovely as some of the other Doctors' last moments were, again, it seemed right considering that scene.

I loved the cameos at the end. What a lovely, self indulgent, but sentimental way to round things off. One last hurrah, because I doubt we'll see them again (aside from Jack and Sarah Jane of course)... they all felt right. I especially like the mention of Geoff Noble- what a lovely little thing to do.

And so we enter the Matt Smith era. He's going to great isn't he? In just the same way that at the end of The Parting of the Ways, David Tennant was absolutely the Doctor, Matt Smith was perfect here. He did the finger waggling bit and just was The Doctor. I can't wait to see him in action!

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

The Next Doctor was weak, Planet of The Dead was poor, Waters of Mars was OK, The End of Time Part One was fair enough but so wrong for Christmas....

But what a fantastic way to start the new year. The End of Time Part Two was wonderful.

One question: Why was the regeneration so explosive? He's regenerated in the Tardis loads of times before and its never done that.

I think that's because he didn't want to go, so he was fighting it. Or it could have been the radiation. Or maybe you'll have to wait a few months to find out.

I just wish we'd seen exactly what happened to The Master at the end, and discovered who the mysterious woman was.

The Master - Oh, he'll be back I'm sure!
The Woman - Deffo the Doctor's Mum.

[duncan]

I'm so pleased to see the Weeping Angels are making a return

[Si Hunt]

The Next Doctor was weak, Planet of The Dead was poor, Waters of Mars was OK, The End of Time Part One was fair enough but so wrong for Christmas....

I agree entirely. 2009 was a poor year for Doctor Who, but 2010 has already shown great promise. The future lies this way!

Si.

[Lissa]

As a way of celebrating the end of an era and saying goodbye to a much loved Doctor Who legend it was everything you could ask for. Unfortunately, the legend was Russell T Davies not David Tennant. This was RTDs big finale - it just happened to star that bloke from last week's QI.

Interruption - isn't it a tiny bit ironic that the Doctor fails to stop the Master becoming ubiquitous during the very week that David Tennant is on (and between) every single BBC programme in the world?

The episode was a mix of the very good - the epic swerve about who was knocking four times - and the very bad - the Doctor defeating the end of time by shooting a computer. The Time Lords were both completely wasted and neatly established for the new regime to either use or ignore. There were many fan theories about where they were and how they would come back. The reality was far less inventive than any of the fanwank I saw. They sent a diamond through time. Good. Well done. And then they went away again.

The Doctor's ending was a well acted bit of pure farce - a pensioner gets stuck in a cupboard just as a nuclear explosion is about to go off? That's not far removed from something you'd see in a Ridley Scott directed episode of Terry and June. It was nice that he sacrificed himself for the most ordinary of people but the whole set up felt too contrived and unlucky to produce the required emotion. Especially as there were 25 minutes left so there was no way this was going to be the climax.

Those last 25 minutes were spent being moody and giving Russell another big pat on the back. And he does deserve it for everything he's achieved. He's a big fruity Christmas cake of a man. But you can easily have far too much Christmas cake. In the nicest possible way I hope we never see Donna, Wilf, her mother, Rose, Jackie, Martha, Mickey or anyone not already signed up to a spin-off series again.

I'm glad it's all over. Now we can begin again. It's a frightening thought but I've believed Steven Moffat to be the best writer in the country for damn near twenty years (I know but it's true - Press Gang really was that long ago) and now he's going to do something amazing*.



*hopefully.

[Larry]

I'm so pleased to see the Weeping Angels are making a return

noticed that to..

[SiHart]

Glad someone is... but will they be tied into the Doctor's Mum (who may, or indeed may not be the Doctor's Mum as played by Claire Bloom) who I'm sure was described as The Weeping Angel in todays episode? Could she be coming back?

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

Amazingly, considering the Time Lords turned out to be from the last day of a deadlocked Time War, the title "The End of Time" wasn't really a cheat!

Si. :mobile