Friday Question: Should England have it's own national anthem?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Scotland has one, Wales has one, is it time England had it's own national anthem?

At the moment we're all lumbered with God Save The Queen, which is the UK anthem - is that all we need?

Should England have it's own anthem and identity?

Many have suggested it should be Jerusalem, using the words,

And did those feet in ancient time.
Walk upon Englands mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In Englands green & pleasant Land

[Paul Monk]

Wasn't Land of Hope and Glory England's national anthem? It used to always be used at the Commonwealth Games as well as football. Recently that seems not to be used anymore. God Save the Queen is very miserable I think. Not inspiring at all and more to the point is used by sevral other countries.

[Lissa]

If an event - which will mainly mean sport - flies the English flag then an English anthem should be played. God Save the Queen should be reserved for events where the Union Flag is flown.

The problem is that it is impossible to ever get consensus on what should represent England. It's fine for other countries to have songs which say how great they are but England can't because that would be nationalistic. It can't be anything old because that harkens back to the Empire and anything new, written by committee and filtered through a thousand and one sensitivity forums is going to be dreadful.

In all seriousness I vote for "Bring Me Sunshine". It's a great tune, it can't offend anyone, it is uplifting and it would sound fantastic sung by 90,000 at Wembley.

[duncan]

Many other countries sing about how great the land and peolple are. We sing about saving one person which I think is wrong. My vote would be for Land of Hope and Glory.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I really love the lyrics to Jerusalem, and would be proud to sing them as a national anthem.

Although I notice a bit like Sean Connery, the more I move away from my home country, the more English I act.

I do think Jerusalem though a great and passionate song, kind of would be a bad choice for a country which prides itself on multiculturalism - it's a very Christian song.

From the content of the song - I absolutely agree 100% with the New Zealand national anthem. However its an absolute bore to sing, and not surprisingly not everyone knows the words.

A national anthem should be short, to the point and catchy in my opinion ...

God of Nations at Thy feet,
In the bonds of love we meet,
Hear our voices, we entreat,
God defend our free land.
Guard Pacific's triple star
From the shafts of strife and war,
Make her praises heard afar,
God defend New Zealand.

Men of every creed and race,
Gather here before Thy face,
Asking Thee to bless this place,
God defend our free land.
From dissension, envy, hate,
And corruption guard our state,
Make our country good and great,
God defend New Zealand.

Peace, not war, shall be our boast,
But, should foes assail our coast,
Make us then a mighty host,
God defend our free land.
Lord of battles in Thy might,
Put our enemies to flight,
Let our cause be just and right,
God defend New Zealand.

Let our love for Thee increase,
May Thy blessings never cease,
Give us plenty, give us peace,
God defend our free land.

From dishonour and from shame,
Guard our country's spotless name,
Crown her with immortal fame,
God defend New Zealand.

May our mountains ever be
Freedom's ramparts on the sea,
Make us faithful unto Thee,
God defend our free land.
Guide her in the nations' van,
Preaching love and truth to man,
Working out Thy glorious plan,
God defend New Zealand.

And once you've finished that, you then sing it all again in Maori!!! [I kid you not]

[Lissa]

Although I notice a bit like Sean Connery, the more I move away from my home country, the more English I act.

Englishness isn't the first thing that springs to mind about Sean Connery.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Englishness isn't the first thing that springs to mind about Sean Connery.

[Philipnet]

I would vote for Rule Britannia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule,_Britannia!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

But surely Britain by it's very name includes Scotland and Wales?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Mind you - probably most Americans think the English national anthem should be "Deusche Deusche Uber Alles" ... "cos that's what you'd be singing if we didnt help you out in those wars" ...

[Philipnet]

But surely Britain by it's very name includes Scotland and Wales?

You've got me on that one.

Wasn't there a cry to change our national anthem to Rule Britannia some while back?

The problem I have with Jerusalem, is that I don't know it

[Alex]

In all seriousness I vote for "Bring Me Sunshine". It's a great tune, it can't offend anyone, it is uplifting and it would sound fantastic sung by 90,000 at Wembley.

I genuinely love that suggestion - it's an incredibly upbeat, fun song. If that was for some reason refused, "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" would be great or, on a personal note, I'd love it to be "Light and Day" by The Polyphonic Spree.

[Paul Monk]

I'd love it to be "Light and Day" by The Polyphonic Spree.

Thats the Sainsbury's national anthem!!

[Si Hunt]

No. I'm not in favour of anything patriotic to be honest - if you love living here, then fine, but openly patriotic propaganda strikes me as the thing that most makes us ultimately slide towards racism and hatred. It's not a given, but we don't seem able to say "I'm proud of where I live" without shortly descending towards "I'm so proud of it that you shouldn't be allowed to share it".

I got an e-mail from a friend the other day bemoaning criticism of someone who stood up against the Islam demonstrations against our armed forces. Fine, but having written the e-mail, someone had got so worked up they'd deigned to title it "Muslim Scum".

So nothing bullishly pro-England please. I love this country to death, but I don't need to tell (or sing) that fact to everyone else.

Si.

[Philipnet]

"Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" would be great

But that's sung is such a sarcastic way there's no way that it would become the English national anthem!

[cullsoft]

I'm surprised that "God Save The Queen" is the UK's anthem, as this suggests that it's an anthem for Scotland too; I doubt many Scots would be happy that their anthem includes a usually unsung verse about them being beaten to a pulp for the divine glory of the nation.

Is there a song called "Mustn't grumble"?

[Captain Tancredi]

I'm surprised that "God Save The Queen" is the UK's anthem, as this suggests that it's an anthem for Scotland too; I doubt many Scots would be happy that their anthem includes a usually unsung verse about them being beaten to a pulp for the divine glory of the nation.

To be fair, it dates from 1745 and (as I vaguely recall) was premiered in London's theatres just as Prince Charles Edward Stewart's Scottish army was heading southwards.

Part of the trouble is that there are a lot of regional songs which inspire a lot of affection- the Cornish have 'Trelawney', Yorkshire has 'On Ilkla Moor Baht 'At', there's 'In My Liverpool Home', 'The Fog on the Tyne' and of course Londoners have the Chas and Dave songbook. As commentators have remarked on the Winter Olympics, there's an art in celebrating your own country without doing it at somebody else's expense, and I think the heritage of England is such as to make that impossible. Anybody who follows the Six Nations will know that Ireland has a compromise sporting anthem 'Ireland's Call', mainly because the anthem of the Republic is fairly offensive to Northern Irish Protestants, and that strikes me as the worst possible solution because you just end up with something anodyne.

They sang 'All You Need Is Love' at the Millennium celebrations, and I suppose you could do a lot worse.

[Lissa]

At least until the Beatles' rights holders decide they want their cut and every patriotic occasion in the country has to have a whip round for Paul and Yoko.

Was it my imagination or did the Egyptian national anthem sound a bit like ours in places and were some of the Wembley throng mistakenly singing God Save the Queen during it?

[Andrew Curnow]

Didn't Billy Connolly once suggest the theme to The Archers as a new national anthem?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I'm not in favour of anything patriotic to be honest - if you love living here, then fine, but openly patriotic propaganda strikes me as the thing that most makes us ultimately slide towards racism and hatred. It's not a given, but we don't seem able to say "I'm proud of where I live" without shortly descending towards "I'm so proud of it that you shouldn't be allowed to share it".

It's a good point.

Maybe we should be proud we're not Americans, seeing how ugly their patriotism can turn.

[Alex]

But that's sung is such a sarcastic way there's no way that it would become the English national anthem!

Really? I've always thought of it as being just a really upbeat song, with the humour coming from Brian's reaction to it. I genuinely can't see any sarcasm here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

Plus it would work really well before every England football match, especially due to how it's likely to end...

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Plus it would work really well before every England football match, especially due to how it's likely to end...

We could have of course the song "The Self Preservation Society" from The Italian Job, or maybe the theme from The Great Escape.

[Larry]

. My vote would be for Land of Hope and Glory.

same for me to.

[Stuart Wallis]

I do think Jerusalem though a great and passionate song, kind of would be a bad choice for a country which prides itself on multiculturalism - it's a very Christian song.

Flanders and Swann did make the point, as an aside, that Jerusalem isn't actually in England in any case. Although I should point out that they then went and offered their own alternative anthem, The English Are Best, which was not entirely complimentary of the Scots, Irish, Welsh, but was certainly not of ultra-nationalism in general, which was the underlying theme of the song rather than let's keep the stereotypes alive. See also their Chameleon.

A national anthem should be short, to the point and catchy in my opinion ...

Unlike the 156-verse Greek anthem, for example...

Like Si, I think we'd get by if we didn't have an anthem; the Isle of Wight wouldn't sink into the sea if we dropped it, and keeping it isn't exactly shoring up the FTSE. Speaking as someone who's a British resident of Irish extraction who's expected by parts of the family to be English, and who's now supposed to be European, I don't feel any rush at all to throw my lot in with any patriotic verve with any nation or background in particular. (I think I may be colour-blind... Or at least so confused I can't be bothered to keep up.)

Is there a song called "Mustn't grumble"?

Another mention on this thread for Chas and Dave...

[SiHart]

Jerusalum? A bit of satire from William Blake about the rise of mechanisation and the factory system as our National Anthem? I think people rather miss the point he's making in the words because it has a nice tune.

However, since people seem to want a nice tune to be the National Anthem, maybe we should go for some classic Pop and do All You Need is Love!

Si xx