Angel.

[Wayne]

Continuing on from the old thread; Here I've started Season 3, & there's some improvement.


S3/D1.

'Heartthrob' - A vampire called James, who some reason which i seem to've missed has super strength comes after Angel to revenge the death of his centuries old love. Meanwhile Darla is seeling ways to get rid of her baby.
This wasn't too bad a start to the season. An improvement on the end of S2 anyway!

'That Vision Thing' - Cordy's visions are causing her serious problems, & Angel tries to sort it out, & he finds that Wolfram & Hart have been sending visions to her.
Hmmmm....... This one was rather average. Could've been any of those W&H S2 eps.

'That Old Gang of Mine' - A significant improvement here, when Gunn's old gang are found to be behind a spree of vigilante demon killings, & attack the Demon karioke bar.
Some good tense scenes in this ep, when Angel's gang turn up at the bar & end up in a confontation with Gunn's old gang members. Pretty good ep.

'Carpe Noctem' - Yay, another good ep where an old man called Marcus uses a spell that enables him to swap bodies. There's considerable consequences when he takes over Angel's body. Very watchable ep. Hope the trend of these last 2 eps continues.

[Wayne]

Just finished S3/D2 this morning.

'Fredless' - Fred's parents turn up to take her home, but she returns to join the group.
Reasonable ep, if nothing spectacular. Though the insectoid monster looked great! I'm still not sure what to make of Fred. In some ways she seems a bit like they're trying to get an early Willow type character. Still, she's a better character than Doyle or The Host.

'Billy' - Very good episode! Quite a dark story, which turns especially disturbing after Wesley is infected & goes after Fred. One of the better eps so far.

'Offspring' - The pregnant Darla turns up at Angel's, & meanwhile a scarred demon is summoning an old enemy from Angel's past.
Quite an interesting ep, which seems to be sowing seeds for future eps. Is this the arrival of the sesaon's big bad?

'Quickening' - I always enjoy these flashback sequences to previous centuries, & here we learn a bit about this vampire hunter; Holtz who is out to get Angel & Darla. In a darker twist, we learn that Wolfram & Hart have Angel's place bugged, & are planning to capture Darla's baby.

It's with some relief that i can say that this Season is already more interesting than almost all of Season 2. I'm actually getting quite curious to see what's going to happen, whereas i was struggling to carry on at all during most of S2!

[Brian]

Isn't Darla a vampire?

How do vamps get pregnant aren't their bodies dead?

Is it a one off, or do they all do it?

[Wayne]

Hey, you should know, You're the Buffy/Angel expert!

[Lord President]

Hey, you should know, You're the Buffy/Angel expert!

Don't listen to him Brian, he thought you were me! I know he sometimes comes of as grumpy, but that's just because he's getting old!

[Wayne]

Yes, sorry Brian (the one who's registered as Brian). A clear case of mistaken identity! It's all these changing user names!

[Lord President]

Wayne, you should know by now that I never use my real identity when posting, there are privacy issues at stake due to my celebrity status!

[Wayne]

Well LP is better than Captain Malcom Reynolds. At least it's a bit shorter.

[Jonno]

The stuff with this old enemy from Angel's past is what really piqued my interest in the show. I watched this season around the time I first met you, Wayne. I do recall that I saw the episode with the old man in Angel's body while I was in Solihull in either April or July 03. Must be the latter, because soon after I saw the "flashback episode" soon after when I visited my folks in late July/early August that year.

[Andy Frankham]

Isn't Darla a vampire?

How do vamps get pregnant aren't their bodies dead?

Is it a one off, or do they all do it?

Yes, Darla is a vampire. And, no, vampires cannot have babies. There are clever reasons behind this twist, and one that is dealt with during both seasons three and four. You'll be glad to know that characters within the show also ask these questions. But I'll not spoil anything for Wayne.

[Alex]

'Carpe Noctem' - Yay, another good ep where an old man called Marcus uses a spell that enables him to swap bodies. There's considerable consequences when he takes over Angel's body. Very watchable ep.

That's one of my favourite S.3 episodes, when New Earth was shown, I wondered if Joss would go down the usual route of body swap episodes (the one where Faith swaps with Buffy springs to mind), but like this it's quite a refreshing switchy body thing with lots of innovative and fun stuff going on type of episode.

[Philipnet]

Man!, not to gloat or anything but I remember watching Angel finish in 2003, and it seems such a long time ago.
But I'm glad Wayne's catching up!

In fact I saw "That Old Gang of Mine" repeated on Sky a few weeks ago and it was a cool episode to re-watch. The change with the bar and to Lorne helpfully sets things up for subsequent episodes, and seasons .

[Wayne]

Man!, not to gloat or anything but I remember watching Angel finish in 2003, and it seems such a long time ago.
But I'm glad Wayne's catching up!

I was still watching 80's Who for the first time in 2003!

[Andy Frankham]

My goal next year is to get someone else into the Buffy/Angel-verse. Last year I got my sister into it, and watch all 13 seasons with her, and this year I have done the same with one of my nephews. So I need to find someone else next year - any excuse to rewatch the entire run again.

[Jonno]

13 seasons? I make it 12!

As regards the pregnancy issue, am I right in thinking that vampires don't have their blood circulating around their body? If so, how do the likes of Angel and Spike have sex with Buffy - surely they'd have more than a little trouble in "getting it up"?!

[Andy Frankham]

Yep, it's 12. My bad. Maths and me!

As for the issue of vamps getting it up. Anne Rice's vampires always did so because of the blood of their victims. So, I assume the same is true of Whedon's vampires. After all, Angel and Spike owe an awful lot to Lestat, Louis, Armand and Co.

[Wayne]

Finished S3/D3, now. Just 3 eps on this disc.

'Lullaby' - Quite a strong episode. I'm finding the new enemy Holtz quite a charismatic character, & the rivalry at Wolfram & Hart between Lilah & the asian guy who's name i've temporarily forgotten has been quite entertaining.
I thought that Darla losing her life to give birth to her baby was quite a nice touch. Darla may not have been the strongest vampire character, but i was kinda sad to see her go. Overall, a pretty decent ep.

'Dad' - Hmmmm....... I thought this was a weaker ep. Basically, the bad guys are after the baby, & plenty of milage is made out the 'Angel is a Dad' gag. Most of which weren't really funny, IMO.
I hope the show doesn't go into 'baby bore' mode from here on in.

'Birthday' - Fourtunately, this was another pretty strong ep, where Cordy is taken on a kind of spirit journey after falling uncouncious due to a particularly strong vision 'attack'. I thought the Cordy tv show gag was quite funny, & i liked the fact that Cordy rejected all that because of the effects the powers had on Angel, & she chose to prevent the visions from killing her by becoming part demon instead. Which could hold some interesting possibilities for the future..... Good, watchable ep.

[Wayne]

S3/D4.

'Provider' - Hmmmmm....... Angel sets about encouraging the team to make some dosh, so that he can provide for the brat, in possibly the dullest episode of this season, so far...... Yawn.

'Waiting in the Wings' - I thought at first that i wasn't gonna like this one, but it turned to have some good moments. I'm still a bit hit & miss with some of characters, so the paths of their love lives aren't as interesting as when i watched 'Buffy', but i did feel sorry for Wesley when Fred went for Gunn.

'Couplet' - Hmmm..... This one rather went over my head. The whole Groo/Cordy thing was rather boring, i thought. Poor Wesley is still not having a great time. I liked his speech to Gunn about looking after Fred. I hope the 'Father Will Kill the Son' prophecy at the end comes true soon.

'Loyalty' - Quite a good ep, which piqued my interest more as it went along. As i've mentioned earlier, i rather like Holtz, i think he makes a good, charismatic villian, & i enjoyed Wesley's confrontation/debate with him towards the end. I hope this particular aspect of currents arcs develops soon - the emphasis in the episodes on this disc have been a bit too much on the interpersonal relationships, which haven't been really working for me.
Intriguing ending to this ep, though.......

[Andy Frankham]

Oooh, lucky you, Wayne, you're about to enter the darkest and most engrossing period of 'Angel'. Let the dark times roll!

[Lord President]

Oooh, lucky you, Wayne, you're about to enter the darkest and most engrossing period of 'Angel'. Let the dark times roll!

Hear Hear! You might want to remove any prescription drugs or sharp objects from your home Wayne!

[Dave Tudor]

Haven't looked at this thread yet (still paranoid about 'Buffy' spoilers - yes, I know it's an 'Angel' thread, but you never know... ), but I'm almost halfway through 'Angel' Season Four, and it's good stuff.

Just watched the episode 'Awakening', and all I can say is - wow!

But all that's to come for Wayne...

[Wayne]

S4/D5.

'Sleep Tight' - A good episode. I like the suspicion that they've created in this storyline of Angel from Wes. The tension increases throughout the ep, as you wonder how it's gonna play out. Great ending. I didn't know what to expect when everyone came together in the confrontation at the end.

'Forgiving' - The storyline continues straight on, as Angel tries to find ways to get his son back. Pretty good follow on ep, with another surprise ending when Angel seriously loses it with Wes!

'Double or Nothing' - Another pretty decent ep, this time centered around Gunn & Fred. Again, i liked the confrontation at the end where Angel arrives at the casino to up the stakes. A good darker ep, slightly spoilt by that silly old demon couple at the beginning. It's that kind of thing which makes it harder to take the whole demonology stuff as seriously.

'The Price' - An enjoyable horror based ep where the hotel is infested by parasite that kill people via dehydration. Quite gruesome in parts, & i liked it when Fred was infected.
They're really going in for the surprise endings lately, too. Now Connor has reappeared, apparently all grown up!

Overall, a definite step up in these last few eps!

[Andy Frankham]

I always liked 'The Price', but it does seem to be battered down by most fans. If you're loving your surprises, Wayne, then you'll be glad to know there are plenty more to come.

[Wayne]

'A New World' - I thought this was a pretty decent ep. I think the Holtz/Connor stuff is done pretty well, & Connor's fight scene with the drug dealer guy was good. Although it's kinda hard to believe that after having his ear cut off, the guy would just wander round clutching a hanky to it. I like the way Wesley is gradually being transformed into a darker character too.

'Benediction' - Another good episode mainly focussed on Holtz & Angel trying to be the father figure in Connor's life. Some good interaction between these 3 characters, & i thought the twist was really good, the way we are set up to believe that Holtz is prepared to let Connor be with his real father for the boy's own good; Only to have Justine kill him and set up his death in such a way that it will put Angel in the frame, thus turning Connor against his father. Another great surprise ending!

'Tomorrow' - A good end to the season, though i thought it was tad weaker overall than the build up over the last couple of eps. Partly because there was quite a lot of focus on the Cordy/Groo/Angel emotional triangle. I never took to Groo in the slightest as a character, & although Charisma Carpenter has done a fine job of Cordy throughout, somehow she never really had the dynamic that the character had in Buffy, & the way she was written out(?) didn't really work for me. Cordy turned out to be a character with remarkable strength of spirit, (it proved to be her best character trait), but i found it difficult to buy into the idea that she'd sacrificed so much that they'd give her the whole angelic ascension thing.
The most interesting character development for me has been Wesley who i think has been underused slightly in these last few eps, but hopefully the potential of exploring the darker side of his character will be expanded upon in the next season.
I did enjoy Angel's fate at the end of this season. The idea of him sealed in a metal tomb at the bottom of the ocean was a great idea, although again i did have some slight misgivings about the way he seemed to've been captured fairly easily. However it did prove to be a really good way of ending the season on a dark note!


Overall then S3 for me has seen much improvement after the relative mediocrity (IMO) of S2, & furthermore, the season has improved as it's gone along. The latter half, especially since the introduction of Holtz, & particularly these last few eps to my mind are probably approaching the level of quality that Buffy acheived during the best of it's first season. I'd like to think that S4 of Angel might even put itself on an equal footing with my least favourite season of Buffy.
Seriously though, it is difficult to put it in perspective next to Buffy, which i saw properly & completely only a short time ago. Much as i've started to enjoy Angel more in this season (& hopefully will continue to do so even more), i can't forget the massive impact that 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' had on me, (particularly from S2 onwards) by comparison. I was absolutely mad on it, & was watching huge numbers of episodes almost every day as i worked my way through it, getting more addicted as i went along. Compared to that; 'Angel' still pales into relative insignificance, but i shall be interested to see where it goes in Season 4, which i will start tomorrow.

Btw, thanks for your input on this thread Andy. You're obviously a fan, so perhaps when you've time on your hands you might like read my journey of total conversion to Buffydom on my thread on the old forum: HERE. It's a long thread, but compare the comments the first page, to the comments after i'd finished the whole show!

[Andy Frankham]

Dude, you watched Buffy before this? That's a real ******, since you know how certain crossovers end up. Namely the upcoming Faith stuff. I always watch the shows as they were first aired, which includes alternating between episodes from the fourth year onwards, but it was well worth the slight hassle of changing discs for the lovely crossovers - some of which were more subtle than others.

And when I get a chance, I will certainly read through your thread. Be well.