Rate and Discuss: The Beast Below

[matthewsch]

I absolutely loved this episode. The whole 'choose to forget' really go to me, it reminded me of Gridlock actually. Such a powerful story, especially with the true enemy of the people being their own institution (reminded me of Children of Earth). It mirrors our own struggles today with social justice and poverty - do we protest or look the other way? Especially with Liz Ten repeating her life every ten years, finding out the truth, and choosing to forget, and start the cycle AGAIN... and the shock on her face when she realizes that she is the heartless higher authority that is ordering the torture. And, of course, the way that Moffat draws out the parallels that Amy sees between the Star Whale and the Doctor is beautiful. (Again, Gridlock, anyone? )

On the downside, I was a little disappointed with the Doctor - he was quite mean to Amy (I don't even understand how a message she never gave ended up as a video being played back to her) and he was so stupid he didn't see the obvious (well not that obvious, but if Amy could figure it out, why couldn't the Doctor?). Usually it's the Doctor who can piece everything together and figure out the solution but he wasn't on top form this time.

Like many new series Doctor Who episodes, the introduction made little sense, as stated in earlier posts. (School Reunion's introduction suffers from the same senselessness.)

Still, 10/10.

[Jamie McCrimmon]

6/10. I love Smith and Gillan, and their partnership is becoming a really good one now. This story just seemed a bit lacking, some good ideas but not quite as good as it could have been. Terrence Hardiman is a brilliant actor and was criminally underused, he should have had an episode to himself as a baddie really. I wasn't sure if they'd stopped feeding 'useless' people to the whale at the end, or if this was glossed over. I liked the storyline that challenged our complacency about what we base our lives on, and how we all keep choosing to forget it, that was cleverly done. The whale isn't even an analogy, sadly. Matt Smith totally rocks, though.

Edited to add: I may like this more after a second viewing, though. The more I think about it the better it seems.

[Andrew Curnow]

I've just been watching the DW Confidential, which reminded me of another bit I loved last night - when the whale's about to vomit out the Doctor & Amy, the Doctor straightens his tie (!) and says, "This won't be big on dignity!" And yet he still seems to be enjoying the experience - how Doctory!!

[Si Hunt]

(I don't even understand how a message she never gave ended up as a video being played back to her)

Me neither! When was that video recorded?

Si.

[Lissa]

The Doctor does mention something about her having lost about twenty minutes of real time thanks to the forgetting ray so that would give her time to record a video. Though why the system lets people record messages to themselves before wiping their memories is unclear.

[SiHart]

Surely we saw the episode events from Amy's POV and if she's made to forget something and loose twenty minutes, then we do too. Or something, perhaps?

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

Admittedly I'm not 100% sure how she managed to record it, but that technical issue aside isn't the idea that as soon as she realises she's opted to FORGET and really, done the wrong thing, she records a message to herself... What plays in the episode (from memory, I may be wrong) as a more or less continuous scene is, as Rob says, from Amy's POV, so she & we have 'forgotten' that recording.

Thinking about this yet again this morning... It's a bit Paradise Towers-y isn't it. A world converted into a tower block, some weird guys in charge, people being disposed of to feed some mysterious something, and something unexpected in the basement!! And it's only the second story with an amazingly quirky & watchable new Doctor!!

[Perry Vale]

Matt Smith is just amazing. I don't think I've ever been as dazzled by a Doctor since childhood, as I am by him. I love this Doctor! He's like a mad professor, interested in everything around him, looking at things ins trange, unknowable ways, and at times he's really channelling Patrick Troughton, especially so when he was explaining the future history to Amy. Wonderful and he broke out of the tenth Doctor's shadow this week and was something new. Old and young all at once.

Totally agree with all of that.

I gave it 8/10, not quite as good as last week, but it ticked all the boxes for me.

The only things I probably would have changed were Liz Ten's accent, and the reveal of the "crack" I didn't feel was entirely neccessary, as it was last week. But both very minor niggles though.

[Larry]

The only things I probably would have changed were Liz Ten's accent, and the reveal of the "crack" I didn't feel was entirely neccessary, as it was last week. But both very minor niggles though.

problem is the crack seems to being clearly established as this series big story arc, so I suppose just like with past series we're going to get constant references to it each episode.

[Dave Tudor]

I luv da crack.

[duncan]

The more of Amy's crack the better I say!

I'll get my coat.

[Stuart Wallis]

I really am a grumpy old Hector where recent Who's concerned; I've not enjoyed this episode either. I'm starting to get into Matt now, because he's reminding me of David Troughton at times (when the Doctor and Amy see the girl on the bench for the first time for example). Overall though, I couldn't get into the episode. I think it's because I'm expecting something a little bit different from the new production team and we're still getting it the RTD way, which is even to my thinking wearing thin now. The story wasn't that engaging for me, and once again, same as with last episode and the spaceship sequence in The End Of Time, I found myself wishing I was doing something else at times. (Actually, I decided to darn some socks rather than watch the vomiting sequence, but that's another story).

Terence Hardiman was, I agree, wasted. Should have been a villain. Should have had more screen time. The Smilers were odd. How could they have a one face on the front of their head, another face on the back of their head, and then the face on the front of their head is suddenly different? and then just as they're about to become a real threat, no sooner do they stand up than they're shot down. There's too many inconsistancies in the script, and again, not enough story, and what there is of it isn't great. Slightly better than last week, but only because there was less of it, and because Matt was better.

2/10

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

I thought it was great. Oksana and I watched it today at lunch time and we were both captivated by it. It felt so fresh and new to us - it's only after reading this thread that I realise that maybe not all of the ideas were entirely original - at the time of watching it though, we had no idea of what was going to happen next.
I think that Matt and Karen are very good together - they work as well as Chris and Billie did in Series 1 and haven't yet got as annoying as David and Billie in series 2 (let's hope that doesn't happen this time around).

I can understand some of the comments about there still being an RTD feel to it (or a hint of one) and I agree, but I think that as the RTD era was a great success from the point of view of the general public that it would be silly to suddenly move too far away from a successful formula - or if you are going to change the direction of the show, perhaps it is done across a period of time as to not alienate all the fans of the new series, many of which will not have seen Doctor Who made in any other way and may not appreciate a sudden change in the style of the show. Maybe later this series or next year perhaps it won't feel so much like the RTD days, may be Steven Moffat is slowly changing the feel of the show? - who knows?
Just a thought

If I'm honest, they don't make Doctor Who the way I would like it made these days, but if they did, it would have come back in 2005 and lasted about 6 episodes!!!!!
I'm just happy it's being made at all and that I still enjoy watching the new series - I may prefer to watch my DVDs of the classic series but the new show still entertains me and I'm not one to give up on it.

Sorry my post has gone a bit sermon like - back on topic now....

Excellent episode
Good story
Great performances by the 2 leads (and others)

I've kept out of all the spoiler threads (first time I'm completely spoiler free - I didn't know about Churchill for example) and right now I'm loving not knowing what's coming next!!!

I'm going to rate this a 9 out of 10

[Jonno]

Two other thoughts - the imagery of the brain and the agony brought to mind Planet of the Ood while the imagery of the giant creature being tortured reminded me of the Meat episode of Torchwood S2.

[Darren]

If the Scottish demanded their own ship, where are they?

[Andrew Curnow]

I reckon it's like Hitch-Hikers. The Earth is actually completely safe, but all the other countries told the UK the end was nigh, so that they would sod off...

[Andrew Curnow]

BTW, does this mean that Milo Clancey named his spaceship after Queen Elizabeth the 79th (or LXXIX, I suppose)? Nice to know the Monarchy lasts that far into the future!!

[Jon Masters]

Still 6/10 for me - liked it better than last week, so maybe 6.49 but not enough to give it a 7.
Good things

• the underlying premise - yes, we've had colonies based on a nasty secret before, but the idea that everyone's in on the conspiracy and chooses to forget it was a good one, along with the reliance on clockwork
• Matt Smith - nailed it for me this week; loved his clever stuff and angry stuff (no hugging humans for no. 11 it seems) and his sense of wonder about being in the whale was all great to see. Favourite bit - when he's telling Amy to only observe, and then pops up on the scanner coz he's already go out and got involved.

Bad stuff

• Smilers - what a waste. All that sense of drama and then they turn out to be useless. Even when they go on a step and stand up, 10 seconds later they're being put out of action. Monsters should be chasing people or doing something to earn their rep. The 'half-human half-Smiler' was nonsense and only there to drop in a shock, probably as the Moff realised he'd wasted them earlier on.
• Liz 10 or whoever; annoying as a character, didn't need all that Torchwood-Virgin Queen tosh being dredged up again, and somehow manages to be a crack shot just because one is needed.
• the companion out-thinking the Doctor - was bad enough in Dalek and Doctor's Daughter, and only shows the companion as being good by showing the Doctor as being crap. As Si said, if it hadn't been a plot requirement the Doctor would have found another way. And lets hope we've seen the last of the Matrix-style recap.
• the crack. Yawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn.
• Mr Moff's sudden abandonment of science (obviously something which is beaten out of showrunners before they take the job). The whole thing with the glass of water was a bunch of ho-ey - unless the lifts, the people and every other bit of machinery is completely vibration free. And perhaps revising Newton's Laws of motion would remind him that you don't need an engine to move through space if you're already moving !! (no wonder my GCSE students don't get it either!!!)

So signs of good things, but lots of little irritations and still a feeling that the stylistic ghost of RTD is running the show. We're still getting little things dropped in because they look or sound cooooooooool, rather than because they're good or make any sense. Here's hoping he gets braver as the series goes on.

(BTW, haven't re-watched it but doesn't the machine get Amy's age horribly wrong if they're only 800 years in the future ?)

[Si Hunt]

Just re-watched it, and a few questions do present themselves.

The Smilers are the most obvious "why" to start with, but turn out to be one of the few things I can explain away with a bit of invention - it's just about possible to believe that they are there as a terror tactic, to 'herd' people away from the bits of the ship where the creature is. But if they want to draw attention away from it, why chuck children into its mouth? What happens to them? Timmy turns up at the end, but it's not apparent where he's been. The Doctor only escapes by using his sonic to make it puke him up. Talking of which, why do he and Amy end up in an "overlow pipe" when the Whale's mouth leads out into space? What do the Smilers do if they catch you, unless they are armed and we just never see the weapon.

Liz 10 throws up a whole raft of problems. Even since her last memory wipe, it's been 50 years. Has it really taken her that long to discover the secret behind the ship? What's she been doing all that time? Why does she keep her mask on the first time she encounters the Doctor when they are alone, but not the next time (it's almost like she knows the plot is being fed out slowly). Most glaringly of all, why does she keep a floor full of glasses of water lying around just to "remind her" that something's up with the government? Has she been topping them up for 50 years? What's wrong with a post-it on the fridge? Don't they get kicked over sometimes? Presumably her Government know the secret as they seem to dwell down in the "dungeon", so why are they allowed to know yet she has to keep having her memory wiped and finding out again every half century?

Talking of memory wiping, the scene with Amy's video STILL doesn't make any sense. I've just seen it again and the scene is continuous - there's not even a break where she passes out or 'slow blinks'. If she's supposed to record her video somehow in the middle of this scene, as someone else pointed out, why is there a facility to do this? And why exactly is she warning the Doctor away anyway? Just to save him the big decision? I think what's really niggling is that the "secret" is painted as so big and so terrible that no-one can bear to keep it in their heads but... well, it's not really is it? They are torturing a big creature and that's horrible, but at the end they all find out and manage to muse on what to do (when they are watching Liz's video) for several minutes without their heads exploding. Surely at least ONE person down the years would have managed not to hit the "forget" button? If it's SO terrible, surely that makes it MORE likely that the most morally centred of the passengers would want to remember in order to stop it from going on? Or at least organise a meeting and talk about it. Every member of the human race would have to be selfish beyond belief to immediately decide that not knowing the truth is better than doing something about it. Why does the Doctor immediately go to kill the Whale rather than, for example, just turning off the torture ray? What does he think would happen? Even if the whole ship came to a standstill in space, wouldn't that be ok until he could sort something else out? Why build the ship without an engine anyway? And if the humans encounter the Space Whale because they don't have any other means of travel, how on Earth do they know it's the last of its kind?

Finally, the Smilers seem entirely mechanical, hence why their heads click round, and they rotate 180 degrees to show a new face... so how do they have three faces (smiley, cross and demonic)?

Si.

[Logo Polish]

(BTW, haven't re-watched it but doesn't the machine get Amy's age horribly wrong if they're only 800 years in the future ?)

If I recall correctly, it's supposed to be over 200 years after they left, which was either in or after the 29th or 30th centuries, so it just about fits, I think. If Amy was 7 in 1996, that implies a birthdate of 1989 for her, and a setting of 3295 for the episode.

[Larry]

The more of Amy's crack the better I say!

I'll get my coat.

calm yourself dear boy...

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I think what's really niggling is that the "secret" is painted as so big and so terrible that no-one can bear to keep it in their heads but... well, it's not really is it? They are torturing a big creature and that's horrible, but at the end they all find out and manage to muse on what to do (when they are watching Liz's video) for several minutes without their heads exploding. Surely at least ONE person down the years would have managed not to hit the "forget" button? If it's SO terrible, surely that makes it MORE likely that the most morally centred of the passengers would want to remember in order to stop it from going on? Or at least organise a meeting and talk about it. Every member of the human race would have to be selfish beyond belief to immediately decide that not knowing the truth is better than doing something about it.

Well I've only seen it once, and I don't remember if it was specifically said, but it seemed pretty clear that anyone who pressed the protest button, got dropped down a tube and fed to the whale.

[Si Hunt]

Well why tell them the truth & give them the choice at all then?

Si.

[Simon R]

Was it explained why everything was so retro like the tv's, phone boxes etc?

[shada pavlova]

If I recall correctly, it's supposed to be over 200 years after they left, which was either in or after the 29th or 30th centuries, so it just about fits, I think. If Amy was 7 in 1996, that implies a birthdate of 1989 for her, and a setting of 3295 for the episode.

Well, that puts paid to Andrew's LIZ 79 theory.